Newcomer / Intro Help me understand "kil pirate" and "kill trader" missions

Ted Striker

Ted Striker
(updating this 1/4/15 since I've had plenty of experience between then and now: Do the pirate missions in resource extraction sites, found at planetary rings. It's the fastest method and avoids potential branched mission bugs. I don't do trader missions anymore but nav beacons are great for that. The branched missions are still very strangely worded and some aren't working correctly but if you avoid USS when doing these missions you'll never get them. The only reason you'd want one of the branches is if you're messing with local faction influence.)

I got two of them at the same time, one to kill 2 traders and one to kill 7 pirates. Decent payout and I wanted to try some combat outside the tutorial.

Went to the system for traders and in the very first USS I find a trader, who promptly tells me to abandon the mission and to meet him at a nearby station. Something about me not wanting to kill innocent people. I check Transactions and the mission now says to abandon it. Huh? I didn't even get the option to agree with him or fire on him? It changed to Abandon right after he talked to me. I don't want to abandon it though, I want to meet the guy and see what happens next. I docked at the station he told me to meet him at and saw nothing in Bulletin Board (but didn't check Contacts, didn't think of that till later). Only thing left to do was abandon the mission like it said to do, but when I did it then said to Collect Blood Money at the originating station. Weird, I'm not following the chain of events here.

Then I went to try to find the pirates, in another system. Again the first USS a pirate (I assume a pirate, he was clean) told me to abandon the mission and meet him at a nearby station, same as the trader. Again, nothing listed in Bulletin Board and didn't check Contacts. I abandoned that mission too like it said to do. This one was now Collect Payment at the originating station.

I turned both missions in at the station and got full payment for both. I didn't do a thing but check two USS and abandon the missions. I didn't even meet the guys like they said to because I didn't see them. It's like that step to meet them at a station is just flavor text and you can't actually meet them.

Is this working as intended? I'm confused. I do understand now that what I was asked to do is favor one minor faction over another via killing traders or whatever the pirates were, but to try to meet them without success and to simply abandon the missions and get the full rewards? Doesn't make sense.
 
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Epicurean Dream

Epicurean Dream
You've got it right. It was giving you the choice of siding with one faction or another. The missions branched. A lot of them do that. You could have carried on with the original goal. It still lists it in the mission details even though the name has changed. Read it closely.

They told you to abandon the mission, that is all you needed to do. This is why you still get the reward, you just get it from the 'other' faction. Said faction (that the ship that branched your mission is a member of) resides at the station you've been told to go to. Nothing to do with a specific mission is happening here. He is telling you which station his faction resides in. So you have the option to go and do missions for them, instead of one of their rival factions, to which you have just run a mission for, to kill members of the second faction.

Every mission is given out by factions, every faction has a 'philosophy', be that trading, security, illegal stuff, couriering, political what-haveyou. the missionns on the bulletin board are all seeded by factions in that system. They will all have relations with other factions around that area of space, and the mission will center around interacting with them in a positive or negative way based on the relationship the mission giving faction has to the mission's destination station or target ships (both tied to a given faction).

Factions have intentions, they want to achieve goals. They do this largely by seeding missions for us to pick up. The AI also aids in the carrying out of these goals, but players will have the largest role in tipping the balance for factions they are affiliated with. we don't really have 'direct' awareness of what the incentives of these factions are. But they are generally attempting to create positive effects for positively related nearby factions, and negative ones for enemy factions, while attempting to also become the dominant faction in that system (causing a civil war, then a government change, and possible a jurisdiction change). Or maintaining their dominance if they are already it.

I went a bit deeper than the original question there, but I think it is important for you to get an understanding of the bigger picture here, because it directly relates to missions in respect to who you want to run them for based on what you would like to ideally see happen in a system. It all ties in together. everything has a consequence and everything effects everything. This is essentially what underlies the 'emergent story line'. The galaxy will evolve over time, emergently, based on what the player base does en-mass, this will also effect, but with much more inertia, the major factions, and ultimately play directly in how the civilizations, minor and major in the game world evolve and interact over time.

What you're experiencing is the very front edge of that. the system that allows us to make choices and effect the simulation. the choice you made (to abandon the mission rather than kill the targets) will have effected the future of the galaxy, in a very small, but still significant way. Cool huh? :)

Hope that cleared it up for you.

p.s. Branching missions/story arcs are going to be getting a lot of love from the Devs in the coming months. At the moment what we have is very 'crude' and bare bones compared to what is the intended design. but it's still very much alive and effecting things. (check out the story about Lugh)
 
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Ted Striker

Ted Striker
Oh so they're telling you "come work for us". That makes sense.

I wonder though why I got the full reward and the proper faction hits after turning the mission in after abandoning it (increase with mission givers, decrease with the ones I was to attack, as if I killed them instead of let them live). I didn't even fire on anyone. Am I to assume I lied to the mission givers that I killed the traders/pirates?

I wonder what the faction hits would have been if I had killed them instead. Didn't want to risk it, they were part of a faction in the system.
 

Ted Striker

Ted Striker
Had one just now, Hunt Pirates. I had to kill 5 pirates in an anarchy system. Found a type 7 in USS who told me I can instead kill 3 Authority for about the same reward.

I want to kill the pirates, not authority, so I opened fire and killed him.

Mission failed. "You have failed to complete this contract".

Was he not a pirate? Why would the mission fail by killing him? And if he wasn't a pirate why did he tell me to kill 3 Authority instead of pirates?

What is going on? None of this makes sense.
 

Phaser

Phaser
Its all very simple. The NPC that you met is just a middle man. Thats why his rep is clean. He is working on behalf of the other faction. If you kill him, you are killing an innocent. He is asking you to abandon the mission you took, for a new mission he is giving you on behalf of the other faction. All you need to do is either keep doing the original mission, or instead follow his directions to complete his mission. This is why it says "alt" for alternate mission details, in the transactions menu.
 

Ted Striker

Ted Striker
Well other than the fact that he was clean there was no indication he was a middle man, that's the thing.

Now I know though.
 

Epicurean Dream

Epicurean Dream
Ted Striker said:
Well other than the fact that he was clean there was no indication he was a middle man, that's the thing.

Now I know though.
Click to expand...

A good tip here then is to always have a quick peek at the faction of a ship. It is listed in the target information panel on the left ship holo-monitor when you have a ship targeted and once an initial automatic forward scan has been completed and you have acquired their name. Flipping to the left panel will also show you additional information you can't see on the smaller panel visible when facing forwards. A pirate faction will always have a name that is pretty obviously a pirate faction, something like "the gold boys" or "something drug empire" e.t.c. If you are still unsure. Check your system maps of the current and nearby systems. When moving the focus cursor off of any bodies on the map, the left hand information panel on the map screen defaults to generic system wide info. It will show a listing of all factions based in that system along with their government alignment. Anarchy aligned factions are the factions that spawn pirate ships. Look for anaechy factions, note their name, and cross reference it with ships you come across.

If for instance the mission is to kill pirates, and this ship isn't a member of a pirate faction, shooting them will generally be an "error" because it won't be related to completing your mission. Well, error isn't the right word here because it's a true sandbox. It is just always worth considering the ramifications of your actions. You can of course shoot him down to no shields, pop his cargo hatch and steal his cargo and deal with the fine. Then go about completing your mission. The choice is always yours, but assessment is always important in ED.

The indication that the other guy was a middle man would probably have been that he wasn't affiliated with the kind of faction that would have spawned the type of ship you were given an alternative mission agenda to complete.

ED can be very unforgiving and can feel quite unintuitive before you have a proper understanding of the mechanics, and where to find the information in game to make a proper assessment of the situation. It is a very complex game and doesn't readily shove lots of flashing arrows and lights to point you in the right direction. It really doesn't treat you like a fool or hold your hand like most other games around these days. The learning curve can be very steep because of this, and mistakes will happen as part of the course. You're doing nothing wrong, just keep coming and asking those of us that have had to fight through these mistakes to get a grip of how things work. Hopefully we can make the transition easier for the rest of you ;)

Good luck out there mate!
 
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adoredtv

adoredtv
Ted Striker said:
Well other than the fact that he was clean there was no indication he was a middle man, that's the thing.

Now I know though.
Click to expand...

I made the same mistake as well, but it's really quite simple - if you attack any target that is "Clean" instead of "Wanted", you will get a bounty for Assault, and a bounty for Murder if you kill them.
 

Ted Striker

Ted Striker
Epicurean Dream said:
A good tip here then is to always have a quick peek at the faction of a ship. It is listed in the target information panel on the left ship holo-monitor when you have a ship targeted and once an initial automatic forward scan has been completed and you have acquired their name. Flipping to the left panel will also show you additional information you can't see on the smaller panel visible when facing forwards. A pirate faction will always have a name that is pretty obviously a pirate faction, something like "the gold boys" or "something drug empire" e.t.c. If you are still unsure. Check your system maps of the current and nearby systems. When moving the focus cursor off of any bodies on the map, the left hand information panel on the map screen defaults to generic system wide info. It will show a listing of all factions based in that system along with their government alignment. Anarchy aligned factions are the factions that spawn pirate ships. Look for anaechy factions, note their name, and cross reference it with ships you come across.

If for instance the mission is to kill pirates, and this ship isn't a member of a pirate faction, shooting them will generally be an "error" because it won't be related to completing your mission. Well, error isn't the right word here because it's a true sandbox. It is just always worth considering the ramifications of your actions. You can of course shoot him down to no shields, pop his cargo hatch and steal his cargo and deal with the fine. Then go about completing your mission. The choice is always yours, but assessment is always important in ED.

The indication that the other guy was a middle man would probably have been that he wasn't affiliated with the kind of faction that would have spawned the type of ship you were given an alternative mission agenda to complete.

ED can be very unforgiving and can feel quite unintuitive before you have a proper understanding of the mechanics, and where to find the information in game to make a proper assessment of the situation. It is a very complex game and doesn't readily shove lots of flashing arrows and lights to point you in the right direction. It really doesn't treat you like a fool or hold your hand like most other games around these days. The learning curve can be very steep because of this, and mistakes will happen as part of the course. You're doing nothing wrong, just keep coming and asking those of us that have had to fight through these mistakes to get a grip of how things work. Hopefully we can make the transition easier for the rest of you ;)

Good luck out there mate!
Click to expand...

Yeah I didn't check his faction, I just assumed he was a pirate because he asked me to kill authority ships instead of himself, or I thought instead of himself. His chat didn't indicate he was a middle man which is something I'll have to keep a close eye on now.

I still don't see how killing him failed the mission though. Killing a middle man for the pirates should not prevent me from continuing the hunt for the pirates themselves but that's exactly what it did. It makes no sense. He may not have been part of a pirate faction but I don't see how he could have been part of the faction that gave me the mission, which is the only way I can see failing it by killing him.

By the way, how do I move the focus cursor off a body on the map? I can view the System and Galaxy maps just fine but haven't experimented with them enough to do what you said to do.

adoredtv said:
I made the same mistake as well, but it's really quite simple - if you attack any target that is "Clean" instead of "Wanted", you will get a bounty for Assault, and a bounty for Murder if you kill them.
Click to expand...

It was in an anarchy system so no bounty or anything. That at least I lucked out on.
 
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Epicurean Dream

Epicurean Dream
It may have been letting you know that you have failed to complete the 'kill authority vessels' branch because you quite possibly killed a pirate? If he told you not to kill pirates, to kill authority instead (I just re-read your post). He was likely a pirate, killing him 'failed' the kill authority branch, giving you a 'failed mission' indicator. I believe you are still able to finish the 'kill pirates' part of the mission though, as you had already 'sided' with that by killing the dude in the anarchy system (this along with him telling you not to kill pirates really makes me think he was from a pirate faction)

I'll also add to this that branching missions are generally really weirded out at the moment. I haven't got a definitive answer, I'm just trying to make sense of what you've experienced based off what you've said and what I know of the simulation. The branching missions ting is only very vaguely implemented right now and is confusing as hell at best. It does work, it just isn't communicated very clearly to the players at all. Which is why you've got to really take stock of exactly who you're dealing with, who they're affiliated with. Double, tripple check mission logs, every time something changes e.t.c.
 
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Ted Striker

Ted Striker
Before I killed him the mission listed both 3 Authority ships and 5 Pirate ships as options for completion. After killing him the whole thing failed entirely. I would think that it would only "fail" the authority branch and leave the pirate branch but it didn't. The mission turned red, said Failed and I could only abandon it. The mission is most likely bugged. There's no way it's meant to fail by killing him.

Next time it happens I have to remember to take screenshots. I'm gonna try to find another mission like it later, but here's the thing: Like I said in the OP, I had the same exact type of mission yesterday and collected the full reward because the ship I found in the USS asked me not to kill him. He asked me to abandon the mission and meet him at a station nearby, I "abandoned" it which didn't actually abandon it but advanced that branch, couldn't find him at the station but the mission did say to Collect Payment so I went back to the station I got the mission from and collected the reward. That's two different and very strange and confusing resolutions to the same type of mission.

So I did two Hunt Pirates missions, one giving me the full reward by letting a pirate live and abandoning my mission to kill them, and one that failed completely by killing what we think was a middle man telling me the pirates will pay me to kill authority ships instead. No matter how I look at the sequence of events in these missions they make no sense.
 

Jikahn

Jikahn
The missions are obviously in a bad state right now, don't feel bad. Each different type I take, seems to have a weird idiosyncrasy. I spent 5 hours looking for personal weapons to steal last night and today. I had to give some that I bought to a player and have them jettison it to mark it stolen for me with 30 minutes left. Then when I turned it in, the mission took my "legit" cargo instead of the "stolen" ones it asked for. The mission system is very tedious, and quite unintuitive right now. Most of the challenge right now comes from actually finding whatever the hell it is I'm looking for, be it kill targets or commodities. Hopefully it's a priority for them to polish up, since the entire background simulation and reputation system depends on it.
 

Dogdoor

Dogdoor
A side query on this thread, who are the Authority when asked to kill the Authority? Is this the Feds, Empire or is it dependent on the government of the System you are in and if so how do you work out which vessels are the "authority"?
Very confusing... If it simply said kill the applicable gov auth it would be far easier.
 

DanteC

D
Glad I found this thread. I constantly have people go 'please don't kill us innocent pirates' which is getting annoying. My current mission is to kill 3 pirates, but my first hit was one these 'please don't kill us people', and now I don't know where I'm meant to go to finish the original mission. I've killed more than 3 pirates just now, but have no indication of how to complete my original objective. I want money and an Elite rating for going pew-pew, not pittiful cash.
The only time I've managed to finish one of these missions properly, was to kill the person trying to change the mission. Had a bounty, but worth it for the 10,000 credits.
 

DanteC

D
Just played again online, first time done so. Killed the little oik to gave me the alt mission, and this time I got an expanded screen, saying how many pirates I had killed etc. Not sure if there's a way to emphatically say no without killing the messenger, I ended up with a murder charge against me and loads of system security targeting me rather than the pirates flying around.
 

Phaser

Phaser
I dont think he is actually part of the pirate faction, he works on behalf of them. In ED, some factions work together sometimes. If you see a clean rep, dont fire.

There are some tell tale signs I use to help out with USS`s. They shave a few seconds off, here and there. For instance, if I`m looking for rebel transmissions or black boxes, I enter a USS, and if the first thing I see on my radar is a yellow blip, I fire up my FSD and get out of there without even scanning the ship. This is because I have never come across any ships while in black box/rebel transmission scenario USS`S, so I know I`m in the wrong one if I see a ship immediately upon entering the USS. While you can sometimes be lucky and find the USS your looking for, first time out, usually it takes a while to find the correct USS, so time saved is welcome.


Next time you take on a pirate hunting mission type: Try scanning from a distance. This way you might avoid triggering the abandon mission message. MM is usually on his own, so if you see a lone ship, try not to get close to it. Also, pirates are usually wanted, while the middle mans rep is always clean, so if you go in expecting to see him, you might stand a chance of recognizing and avoiding him, by scanning from a distance to see if his rep is clean or wanted. That way depending on his rep you can just re-engage SC and get out of there without triggering the abandon message. Pirates fly just about any ship, but usually they fly combat vessels.


It might be harder to avoid the middle man if your on a trader hunting mission, as your looking for clean rep trading ships. However, again, middle man will be on his own, whereas sometimes traders travel in groups of two, or more. I havent taken many pirate/trader hunting mission types, but when I have, my experience has been that the middle man is usually flying a large ship. The couple times I met him he was flying an Asp or an Anaconda. Don’t rely on what Im saying because as I said, I havent taken many of this particular type, but I do know that when I have met him, he is always on his own.
On the other hand, sometimes you will enter a USS and find a lone trader, so you may not be able to tell if he is MM or not, unless he is in a large ship. If he sometimes flies a small one, it will be harder to tell if it is him or not. :)
All of these things are probably worth testing or paying attention to, when you take these particular mission types. You should report your findings. While I don’t think you have to trigger the middle man message to complete the mission, the possibility that you might would be another thing worth paying attention to.
 
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Phaser

Phaser
I just met the guy during a mission. Couldnt avoid him as he gave the mission soon as I dropped in. Hopefully Frontier will fix bugs soon, or give us the option to accept or refuse his mission.
 

Lyssa

L
Im having problems with a pirate hunt mission too. I've been a peaceful trader up to now and decided to started doing some missions and building some rep. Got a mission to kill 5 pirates in another system. Jumped in, encountered the middle man but ignored him and proceeded to look for targets. After two and a half hours I'd killed lots of people, but only 3 counted towards by mission count and I don't know why. I tried lots of variations -

- hanging out at Nav Beacon
- using kill warrant scanner on "clean" targets to check their other bounties
- dropping in on USS points
- interdicted wanted targets
- interdicted clean targets and scanned them with kws
- flew around SC with some tasty bait in my hold and submitted to interdiction

in the end i had to abandon the mission as I ran out of play time.

Are any of the above methods a waste of time for these types of missions or was there something else I should have been doing? I hadn't heard before that it had to be targets from a particular regional pirate faction which you have to ascertain from the nearby systems maps - has this been widely confirmed by the community and / or devs or is it just one persons opinion? (No offence to that person!)
 
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