Proposal Discussion 4X Elite strategy game

I've got an idea for the FD team.
What about creating 4X space strategy in Elite universe? So player can take command of Federation, Empire or Alliance? Or to build empire of his own from scratch in the depths of the universe (you start with a ship carrying some colonists and then have to attract more population to your homeworld via trade, propaganda or social, political and economic benefits).

We can use proceduraly generated galaxy from Elite Dangerous. Since there will be billions of star system, replayability is guaranteed.
Some of the features could be:
- using the benefits of evolving galaxy from ED
- using the complex economy and resource model from ED
- opening and defending trade routes
- managing production of resources and finished products
- imposing sanctions and embarghos
- rich diplomatic options including trade and defense deals, trading weapons, ships, technologies and systems
- evolvong diplomatic AI that "remembers" your diplomatic actions and acts acordingly
- designing and building of capital ships
- designing fleets
- commanding fleets in combat
- possibility to personally take command of any capital ship in combat
- complex ship damage model
- micromanaging internal policies of your empire
- contracting deals with explorers and companies
- researching new techs and weapons, hulls....
- building and developing systems and planets
- managing terraforming operations
- recruit pirates to disrupt your rival's trade lines
- send in raider ships
- conduct espionage and intelligence operations
- manage your population and it's needs
- be on allert for rebelions and dangerous political factions
- recruit ministers, scientists and military leaders
- encounter and interact with allien races - ranging from the ones with space age tech and the primitive ones living in caves
- walk arround your worlds and just enjoy how beautifull places are the part of your empire :)




What do you think?
 
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I think a separate game would be a much better idea than the suggestions that ED itself should morph into an RTS/4X type game... so, thumbs up from me! ;)
 
I think a separate game would be a much better idea than the suggestions that ED itself should morph into an RTS/4X type game... so, thumbs up from me! ;)

I'm not talking about morphing ED into 4X strategy game. Just using proceduraly generated galaxy, graphics, ship models and 3D engine from ED. To save up the work...
 
Yeah, sorry, I didn't word my post very well! In OTHER threads there have been suggestions the ED moves from "one guy and his ship" to owning stations, fleets of ships, planets, systems, etc.

I agree with you, that there is scope for an entirely separate game using the same Galaxy and backdrop as the basis. :smilie:
 
Alternatively of course, some talented person (i.e. not me) could make an Elite mod for one of the many existing 4X space games out there.

My personal favourite is Distant Worlds. Rather pricey if you get all of the expansions, but my goodness do you get your money's worth! The detail!
 
Alternatively of course, some talented person (i.e. not me) could make an Elite mod for one of the many existing 4X space games out there.

My personal favourite is Distant Worlds. Rather pricey if you get all of the expansions, but my goodness do you get your money's worth! The detail!

Distant worlds seemed OK to me, but damage and comabat model (2D RTS style with ships almost the size of planet) just sucks. Research tree is too simple, ship design also. And what ,IMHO, ruins the game most are those silly oversized space scorpions.

Anyway, I think that FD team with engine and 3D objects from ED, together with their ideas and sense of details can make future 4X game classic that the whole gaming world will talk about for a long time.
 
no more separate Game Modes for gods sake this should happen after having enough credits and also multiplayer versus only, right in the online sandbox. Anything else would be a waste of dev time.
 
Different game genre, rather than game mode really.

I was thinking about NEW, SEPARATE GAME, based on Elite universe and using ED game engine, galaxy, objects and so on. I was not thinking about game where you start as Sidewinder pilot and end up being emperor...

So, different game than Elite but based on Elite. And after ED is finished....
 
I was thinking about NEW, SEPARATE GAME, based on Elite universe and using ED game engine, galaxy, objects and so on. I was not thinking about game where you start as Sidewinder pilot and end up being emperor...

So, different game than Elite but based on Elite. And after ED is finished....

Yes, as I said before - I agree with you. FromHell was suggesting it should all be in the same game though... which is where we disagree! :p ;)
 
What makes the Elite universe and its background fiction particularly fitting for a strategy game?

The imagination and sense of details of FD and D. Braben woul'd surely result in excellent 4X game.
The existing engine, galaxy and 3D objects means that they do not have to be designed again thus halving developing time.....
 
All I see is a rather generic universe from the perspective of a 4X game. Three human political factions, and one insectoid race. Even mediocre 4X games typically have at least double that amount of factions to choose from.

The existing engine has been built for the technical specification and requirements of a first person space sim / shooter, not a strategy game.

Even the fiction has been designed to support gameplay that emphasises individual pilots with limitless agency. Gateless hyperspace travel would not be great for a strategy game, as it removes chokepoints and any sort of tactical significance from the map's geometry. Going to war would effectively mean clumping all your ships together into a huge fleet and jumping to the enemy home world, while they could do nothing to stop you.
 
All I see is a rather generic universe from the perspective of a 4X game. Three human political factions, and one insectoid race. Even mediocre 4X games typically have at least double that amount of factions to choose from.

More races coul+d be added rather easily. I do not see any problem with that...

The existing engine has been built for the technical specification and requirements of a first person space sim / shooter, not a strategy game.

I belive this engine is usable for strategy game, but only FD crew knows the real capabilities of the game engine....

Gateless hyperspace travel would not be great for a strategy game, as it removes chokepoints and any sort of tactical significance from the map's geometry. Going to war would effectively mean clumping all your ships together into a huge fleet and jumping to the enemy home world, while they could do nothing to stop you.

Capital ships do have limited range. Hyperspace jumps of the massive fleets can be easily detectable - especially on the destination of the jump....
 
More races coul+d be added rather easily. I do not see any problem with that...
Yeah but why not just come up with an entirely new universe actually designed for this purpose? What's the point of trying to cram Elite lore into a game that really has nothing to do with Elite?

I belive this engine is usable for strategy game, but only FD crew knows the real capabilities of the game engine....
I have a little less faith, knowing different genres of games typically have very different requirements that their engines have to meet, both in the technical infrastructure and in UI design. A 4X strategy game couldn't be more different from a multiplayer space FPS.

Capital ships do have limited range. Hyperspace jumps of the massive fleets can be easily detectable - especially on the destination of the jump....
The point isn't the range or the detection, the point is that there is nowhere the enemy can set up a defence that the attackers can't just easily get around.
 
Alternatively of course, some talented person (i.e. not me) could make an Elite mod for one of the many existing 4X space games out there.

My personal favourite is Distant Worlds. Rather pricey if you get all of the expansions, but my goodness do you get your money's worth! The detail!

Agreed - with the latest expansion it is an amazing game.
Maybe someone could come up with an Elite mod for it.

I can see the attraction of a 4x Elite stylee. I used to play AI War Fleet Command with all the star systems named after systems in Elite galaxy 1. The story in my head was that the Thargoids had detonated some kind of mega weapon that rendered hyperspace travel impossible, fracturing hyperspace so that only certain routes were open. It really made the game interesting for me that it felt like I was playing in the Elite universe.
 
Yeah but why not just come up with an entirely new universe actually designed for this purpose? What's the point of trying to cram Elite lore into a game that really has nothing to do with Elite?

It's worth a try since this far, only Elite (Frontier) managed to fully "recreate" the wastness and richness of the space. And imagine the strategy game in billion system Elite galaxy. That woul'd be just awesome...

I have a little less faith, knowing different genres of games typically have very different requirements that their engines have to meet, both in the technical infrastructure and in UI design. A 4X strategy game couldn't be more different from a multiplayer space FPS.

We got galaxy map. We got physical model. we got renderer for star systems. Planets and system fully zoomable with great details. We've got ship models to. all we need is to incorporate AI, diplomatic, research, espionage and building screens... And imagine watching cities and industrial complexes being built on your planets, walking arround your planets which are not just dots with statistics on system map ,but real places that can be virtually visited and walked on...

The point isn't the range or the detection, the point is that there is nowhere the enemy can set up a defence that the attackers can't just easily get around.

You can not defend all the places even in the real world. but for that reason you have to monitor fleet movements and place your fleets in the way they can efficiently react and intercept. I just hate 4X space strategies where all you have to do is to sit on the warp points, choke points, jump points, wormhole portals and blast everything that emerges from them. Just hate jump portals....
 
It's worth a try since this far, only Elite (Frontier) managed to fully "recreate" the wastness and richness of the space. And imagine the strategy game in billion system Elite galaxy. That woul'd be just awesome...
The idea of a vast procedurally generated galaxy is not patented by Frontier. Anyone could make a strategy game set in a large universe without incorporating a single bit of Elite lore. There are other companies out there more experienced with making strategy games. Firaxis, Paradox, Creative Assembly...

We got galaxy map. We got physical model. we got renderer for star systems. Planets and system fully zoomable with great details. We've got ship models to. all we need is to incorporate AI, diplomatic, research, espionage and building screens... And imagine watching cities and industrial complexes being built on your planets, walking arround your planets which are not just dots with statistics on system map ,but real places that can be virtually visited and walked on...
Converting a game into another completely different type of game is never that simple. The scale and scope of what you're suggesting is tantamount to making a new game from scratch.

You can not defend all the places even in the real world. but for that reason you have to monitor fleet movements and place your fleets in the way they can efficiently react and intercept. I just hate 4X space strategies where all you have to do is to sit on the warp points, choke points, jump points, wormhole portals and blast everything that emerges from them. Just hate jump portals....
In the real world we're constrained onto one planet which is not thousands of light years across, and more importantly, there is geography that forces enemy armies to move in predictable ways, creates chokepoints, allows ambushes etc. The geography can be used for your advantage, which is a huge part of military strategy and of strategy games based on terrestrial warfare. Remove that aspect and all you have is two armies throwing themselves against each other and seeing who remains standing.

If enemy fleets are zooming across interstellar distances within minutes there's nothing you can do to "intercept" them even if you know exactly where they are. There's just not enough time to scramble. Once you get to them they're already nuking your capital.

Those warp points and chokepoints in those games exist for a reason. They force the game to be played on a map, which is prerequisite for interesting strategy and tactics to occur with more than one dimension to it.
 
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