Please make the game harder

[Neilos]

In order to offset any 'please make the game easier' threads I would like to voice my opinion on making the game harder.

So far I have been bounty hunting. I worked my way up from a sidewinder to Adder to Viper, things are going pretty well... perhaps too well.

I have killed hundreds of harmless/dangerous/elite NPCs and gathered ~1mil Cr from bounties, however I have only died (I think) 4 times. The trouble is this:

Death 1: Crashed into station exit by trying to be too fly and boosting out. (Sidewinder)
Death 2: Boosted into an enemy NPC Python doing a super fast guns blazing attack. (Adder)
Death 3: Forgot to ask for permission to dock and flew in to the station. I thought, it'll be fine I'll get in then ask.. well... (Viper)
Death 4: Boosted into an enemy NPC Anaconda doing a super fast guns blazing attack. (Viper)

So of all my deaths 2 have been in combat against FAR superior ships but they have been down to my poor piloting skills and not the Elite skills of the NPCs. If I keep calm and stop trying to show off then the NPCs stand no chance. Also... why are wanted Novice pirates flying Pythons in Federation space with no shields?!?! How does a novice get such a big ship? He must be joy riding cos he stole it from his parents or something, I mean seriously, Pythons shouldn't die to me so quickly. There should only be Dangerous and Elite pilots in the larger ships.

PvP would be a good challenge but I am scared to fight Commanders because I don't want to end up on a griefing server and I have yet to see a wanted Commander (but that'll happen in time I reckon), but this game has little regard for PvP currently which saddens me slightly.

Also as a side note, when I go into an instance with 4 pirates then I have noticed that they will all patiently fly about waiting for their turn to die... Why aren't they ganging up on me to save their buddies?

Does anyone agree with me?

NB: I am super enjoying the game. Interdicting and killing pirates is really fun. I'm going to try trading soon when I can buy a ship with decent cargo too, I love the whole planning/wheeling/dealing thing. Big thumbs up to the Devs so far!

I created a poll so give more balanced views of this issue accounting for both sides of the argument.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=81775&highlight=

 

[Miimis Maks]

Please. Acknowledge a problem.


[video=youtube;a-nhC4vf6Ec]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-nhC4vf6Ec[/video] [video=youtube;Pe9S282Xg8g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe9S282Xg8g[/video]

 

[CFGX]

I'd just like to say thank you for suggesting things that are real improvements rather than the faux "difficulty" of increased grinding, deification of game-y QoL issues like kill stealing, or other toxic elitist junk.

 

[Lobstris]

Also as a side note, when I go into an instance with 4 pirates then I have noticed that they will all patiently fly about waiting for their turn to die... Why aren't they ganging up on me to save their buddies?
Does anyone agree with me?

Yes I agree with you. Interdictions are too easy to escape from, and the lack of a grouping mechanism for players or AI, means that they are all pretty much 1-on-1 fights. All previous Elites (including placeholder interdictions in the alpha/betas of Elite: Dangerous) had one-vs-many fights. Which IMHO are sorely missed.

 

[euclydian]

Yeah, agreed.

Interdictions are rare and I find the pirates typically don't have shields. Additionally, submitting to an interdiction allows you to escape into SC in mere seconds anyway so what's the point. Combat is really fun in this game but it's not very satisfying for me currently. It's good to see people wanting the game to be harder though, particularly people like yourself that have only just started playing. Hopefully the devs will take note.

 

[Maxxgold]

Signed. The game just came out and I'm sure there will be plenty of updates as it progress'es.

 

[tucker]

I agree, Elite Dangerous needs to be harder. It's in the name.

 

[Tigga]

Signed. I was about to make a similar thread. There's two issues for me: combat and money making.

Making money is far too easy. Trading/piracy/smuggling earns you about the right amount of cash, perhaps a little low, but about right. Random contracts/bounty farming/mining earns you 10x more. This is mad. Very soon people are going to start complaining that they have nothing left to play for as they have all the cash and can buy anything they want. While a lot of people are happy with "open world, no limits", a lot of people also enjoy the challenge and achievement that having credits in the game should give.

Dying is too rare and nothing kills you quick enough to prevent you just jumping out. I've only ever come "close" to dying when trying to take on something much larger than me, and I got away with 60+% hull. As you say, NPC pilots need to be better skilled on average, they need to attack you in groups, and, to add some multiplayer to the game, humans need to be able to jump in and help you. You shouldn't be able to jump away instantly after submitting, and even if you don't sumbit, the chances of taking serious damage before you get away are low.

 

[euclydian]

. All previous Elites (including placeholder interdictions in the alpha/betas of Elite: Dangerous) had one-vs-many fights. Which IMHO are sorely missed.

That abandoned gold USS in beta with the 3 Cobras? LOVED it.

 

[Neilos]

Maybe we should have open play (hard) and open play (easy). I don't care that people can play easy get all the cash they want and then come into hard to try take me out, in fact I would love that, taking on a super rich outfitted guy in my hard earned ship. It's make the victory much more rewarding, or the death much more thrilling. I just want the NPCs to be less of a push over.

 

[Icarus1]

Yeah, agreed.

Interdictions are rare and I find the pirates typically don't have shields.

Far bigger problem is, that we have no idea who is a pirate. There isn't any indication of whether someone is an individual, working for himself shooting authorities - thus gaining the wanted status, or some other who is working for an criminal organization.

The game doesn't have pirates. It has ships which are either wanted or clean, but that doesn't tell who is a pirate, and even a clean status doesn't mean, that he is not going to shoot you.

 

[xxThe_Dice_manxx]

Yes what happened to the ambushes?

It definitely needs to be made harder, the AI needs to be made smarter as well.

Anarchy/feudal systems need be made a LOT harder with a sign at the door reading "abandon all hope ye who enter here"

Multiple attackers needs to happen a lot more as well.

 

[euclydian]

Far bigger problem is, that we have no idea who is a pirate. There isn't any indication of whether someone is an individual, working for himself shooting authorities - thus gaining the wanted status, or some other who is working for an criminal organization.

The game doesn't have pirates. It has ships which are either wanted or clean, but that doesn't tell who is a pirate, and even a clean status doesn't mean, that he is not going to shoot you.

I'm just going by what they say when they interdict you, typically "give me your cargo" or whatever. I used the word pirate but it doesn't really matter. I meant the ones that interdict you, sorry if not clear. If they're interdicting me for cargo they should have shields in the vast majority of cases.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

My key issue is that system "Security Level" still means very little.


I'm not bothering to check the security level of a destination system before jumping.

I'm not checking it now, in a decently set up Cobra. But neither did I check it back in a starter Sidewinder, on in my Eagle. That says a lot.


There should be a gradient of risk from the anarchic dens of villainy right up to the cushy corporate states and democracies, where police outnumber the other traffic 2:1.

Anarchy systems should be incredibly risky, but it's not working like that yet.


Let's get some serious old-school risk going in the "Low Security" systems...

• If you get interdicted by a pirate, expect his mate the other pirate - in a bigger ship - to arrive a minute or two later.
• Up-skill the Deadly and Elite NPCs more, in all ships. The "ELITE Eagle" NPC flight style is really, really good! Need that same effectiveness in other ships, from high-skill hostile NPCs.
• Let's see poorly equipped and low-skilled authority "crime response" ships in "Low Security" systems. Have them take longer to arrive, and be less effective once they engage.

That, in turn, will encourage us to decide between taking the long way round, or risking going through dangerous space. Once there IS such a thing as "dangerous space".

And it will encourage us players to "group up" for protection.


Heck, how many players even realise there IS a "Security Level" shown for each system? It made a brief appearance on the Galaxy Map in a beta phase, then moved to the "System Map" only... where it is usually obfuscated by the pointless scientific stats of the system's primary star. To find the "Security Level" in the System Map, you need to WASD your way OFF the selected star and point at "nothing". Only then will it appear!

That Security Level info needs to be front-and-centre, and needs to mean something in terms of real gameplay risk, minute to minute.



I'd go so far as to have a player-configurable SYSTEM SECURITY WARNING setting, that flashes... well... "DESTINATION SYSTEM SECURITY WARNING" on-screen if a destination is chosen that exceeds the set risk level.

New pilots would have this defaulted at MEDIUM. If they try to fly to a MEDIUM/LOW security system, they get an in-their-face warning they are about to be out of their depth.

Experienced pilots would turn it down, to "LOW".

Veteran pilots would just turn the nagging thing OFF altogether, and check their security levels like they check everything else.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I completely agree - died twice in gamma - one death was before the anouncement that there wouldn't be a wipe and me deliberately smashing my ship into a wall, the second was ramming my Asp into a wall whilst flying inebriated - given the tiny death penalty, I shrugged and moved on.

I want games to scare the hell out of me for the suspense. in ED it's not there because the game is too easy and forgiving.

 

[Neilos]

My key issue is that system "Security Level" still means very little.


I'm not bothering to check the security level of a destination system before jumping.

I'm not checking it now, in a decently set up Cobra. But neither did I check it back in a starter Sidewinder, on in my Eagle. That says a lot.


There should be a gradient of risk from the anarchic dens of villainy right up to the cushy corporate states and democracies, where police outnumber the other traffic 2:1.

Anarchy systems should be incredibly risky, but it's not working like that yet.


Let's get some serious old-school risk going in the "Low Security" systems...

• If you get interdicted by a pirate, expect his mate the other pirate - in a bigger ship - to arrive a minute or two later.
• Up-skill the Deadly and Elite NPCs more, in all ships. The "ELITE Eagle" NPC flight style is really, really good! Need that same effectiveness in other ships, from high-skill hostile NPCs.
• Let's see poorly equipped and low-skilled authority "crime response" ships in "Low Security" systems. Have them take longer to arrive, and be less effective once they engage.

That, in turn, will encourage us to decide between taking the long way round, or risking going through dangerous space. Once there IS such a thing as "dangerous space".

And it will encourage us players to "group up" for protection.


Heck, how many players even realise there IS a "Security Level" shown for each system? It made a brief appearance on the Galaxy Map in a beta phase, then moved to the "System Map" only... where it is usually obfuscated by the pointless scientific stats of the system's primary star. To find the "Security Level" in the System Map, you need to WASD your way OFF the selected star and point at "nothing". Only then will it appear!

That Security Level info needs to be front-and-centre, and needs to mean something in terms of real gameplay risk, minute to minute.



I'd go so far as to have a player-configurable SYSTEM SECURITY WARNING setting, that flashes... well... "DESTINATION SYSTEM SECURITY WARNING" on-screen if a destination is chosen that exceeds the set risk level.

New pilots would have this defaulted at MEDIUM. If they try to fly to a MEDIUM/LOW security system, they get an in-their-face warning they are about to be out of their depth.

Experienced pilots would turn it down, to "LOW".

Veteran pilots would just turn the nagging thing OFF altogether, and check their security levels like they check everything else.

+1 This sounds more like what I expect.

I'm currently doomed to play Elite: Harmless

 

[Cryonics]

Rep given. We need FD to keep things challenging. Refine systems that need it, but not to take away the challenage when doing so.

 

[Neilos]

I want games to scare the hell out of me for the suspense. in ED it's not there because the game is too easy and forgiving.

Precisely. I have just come from playing Alien Isolation That game scared the pants off of me (not literally...) I played on the hardest setting and loved it. I died frequently and had to restart missions time after time but that was amazing. Every time I died with a huge smile on my face and felt so excited trying to run away from the inevitable death by viscous Alien claws/teeth.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

Yes. I visited over a dozen different systems I had 2 (two!) interdiction attempts since release. Both prevented easily.

Seems a bit on the low side. I had more on my first day in Gamma1.0.

 

[Tar Stone]

Signed.

Edit: +1 to Kremmen's post

Edit2: Side note, neighbouring systems should have an influence politically on each other, anarchy/democracy should have a chance of spreading. I thought we'd be at the stage by now of discussing this kind of stuff, instead of the basics.

Dangerous and safe systems would provide a natural difficulty level without needing to have separate game modes.

All the systems are safe right now, which adds to the feeling of them 'all being the same'.

If the economy background is working then dangerous systems should naturally become more profitable.

If the political background is working then systems can be made safer/more dangerous as factions rise and fall.

The danger in the game right now is about as flat as the economy.