Salvage vs Stolen: A gripe but with a suggestion(awesome SS included!)(Foiled by BBS)

[Redcon One]

Bounties and Fines are harsh. They should be. They are the only 'Law Enforcement' in the land at the moment. I enjoy exploring and filling market orders its good money. I don't trade in illicit goods very often as I am just getting started and I can't afford the huge fines associated with them. I don't take missions that are clearly illegal unless the payoff is just too good to ignore and then I assume the risks. I fly a fully kitted Adder I call my Battle Can because its fast(ish), holds more than a hauler, has 3 guns(1 med better than eagle), and has shields same as a cobra with armor of a viper so I do get in a fair bit of dust-ups with pirates. More often than not when taking out a larger rat say a cobra or asp they have attempted to FSD out and left behind something or when they get spaced some of the pieces are cargo. Or perhaps I just happened upon a recent battle where everyone died and random cargo is just there. This, my friends, is SALVAGE. Every privateer, spacer and trader knows if its not tied down and its not claimed its up for grabs. But one thing it is not...its not STOLEN. I have worked for the last several hours towards paying off a 91,000 fine in fed space for my 'Stolen' cargo. It wasn't contraband or illegal i got very lucky and found a bunch of gallite(sp?) left over after the feds spaced a rat then they FSD'd out and it was just me and the cans floating there..I didn't steal it..owner was dead it wasn't outlawed in the system. I picked it up headed back to home base and on the way got interdicted by some rat, killed him and soon as I finished him FSS shows up and scans me..boom 91k fine. I have 24 hours to pay it off or it becomes a 120k bounty =/


See my issue? Salvage should not be flagged Stolen unless its stolen....or illegal contraband...that should be an entirely different flag..


On the bright side as I was sitting there mad as all hell at the stupid ass feds I was enjoying the view and it reminded me why I can't stay mad long. 3 sun system, but a binary pair in close orbit...amazing



Well HELL I can't post an image...not even a LINK to my image? oh bloody hell...i'll have to post it after I post another post..it said 2 posts thats like 8 posts....oh it meant actual posts not the word posts..lmao hehe

 

[Zaptruder]

Thoroughly agree. Would give us a greater range of things for players that want to stay legit to do while farming bounty at POI.

 

[Redcon One]

Bounties and Fines are harsh. They should be. They are the only 'Law Enforcement' in the land at the moment. I enjoy exploring and filling market orders its good money. I don't trade in illicit goods very often as I am just getting started and I can't afford the huge fines associated with them. I don't take missions that are clearly illegal unless the payoff is just too good to ignore and then I assume the risks. I fly a fully kitted Adder I call my Battle Can because its fast(ish), holds more than a hauler, has 3 guns(1 med better than eagle), and has shields same as a cobra with armor of a viper so I do get in a fair bit of dust-ups with pirates. More often than not when taking out a larger rat say a cobra or asp they have attempted to FSD out and left behind something or when they get spaced some of the pieces are cargo. Or perhaps I just happened upon a recent battle where everyone died and random cargo is just there. This, my friends, is SALVAGE. Every privateer, spacer and trader knows if its not tied down and its not claimed its up for grabs. But one thing it is not...its not STOLEN. I have worked for the last several hours towards paying off a 91,000 fine in fed space for my 'Stolen' cargo. It wasn't contraband or illegal i got very lucky and found a bunch of gallite(sp?) left over after the feds spaced a rat then they FSD'd out and it was just me and the cans floating there..I didn't steal it..owner was dead it wasn't outlawed in the system. I picked it up headed back to home base and on the way got interdicted by some rat, killed him and soon as I finished him FSS shows up and scans me..boom 91k fine. I have 24 hours to pay it off or it becomes a 120k bounty =/


See my issue? Salvage should not be flagged Stolen unless its stolen....or illegal contraband...that should be an entirely different flag..


On the bright side as I was sitting there mad as all hell at the stupid ass feds I was enjoying the view and it reminded me why I can't stay mad long. 3 sun system, but a binary pair in close orbit...amazing



Well HELL I can't post an image...not even a LINK to my image? oh bloody hell...i'll have to post it after I post another post..it said 2 posts thats like 8 posts....oh it meant actual posts not the word posts..lmao hehe

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Bounties and Fines are harsh. They should be. They are the only 'Law Enforcement' in the land at the moment. I enjoy exploring and filling market orders its good money. I don't trade in illicit goods very often as I am just getting started and I can't afford the huge fines associated with them. I don't take missions that are clearly illegal unless the payoff is just too good to ignore and then I assume the risks. I fly a fully kitted Adder I call my Battle Can because its fast(ish), holds more than a hauler, has 3 guns(1 med better than eagle), and has shields same as a cobra with armor of a viper so I do get in a fair bit of dust-ups with pirates. More often than not when taking out a larger rat say a cobra or asp they have attempted to FSD out and left behind something or when they get spaced some of the pieces are cargo. Or perhaps I just happened upon a recent battle where everyone died and random cargo is just there. This, my friends, is SALVAGE. Every privateer, spacer and trader knows if its not tied down and its not claimed its up for grabs. But one thing it is not...its not STOLEN. I have worked for the last several hours towards paying off a 91,000 fine in fed space for my 'Stolen' cargo. It wasn't contraband or illegal i got very lucky and found a bunch of gallite(sp?) left over after the feds spaced a rat then they FSD'd out and it was just me and the cans floating there..I didn't steal it..owner was dead it wasn't outlawed in the system. I picked it up headed back to home base and on the way got interdicted by some rat, killed him and soon as I finished him FSS shows up and scans me..boom 91k fine. I have 24 hours to pay it off or it becomes a 120k bounty =/


See my issue? Salvage should not be flagged Stolen unless its stolen....or illegal contraband...that should be an entirely different flag..


On the bright side as I was sitting there mad as all hell at the stupid ass feds I was enjoying the view and it reminded me why I can't stay mad long. 3 sun system, but a binary pair in close orbit...amazing



Well HELL I can't post an image...not even a LINK to my image? oh bloody hell...i'll have to post it after I post another post..it said 2 posts thats like 8 posts....oh it meant actual posts not the word posts..lmao hehe

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Won't even let me post a link to my SS! HAH I reject your reality.

 

[Spanners44]

I believe FDev have done this for a reason. It is to try and stop 3rd party groups profiting from their game by selling goods for RL money. This is a common problem in allot of MMOs where you pay someone real money and they give you gold/goods/equipment in game to boost your play. By marking all dumped goods as stolen it discourages this activity.

 

[Ayerc]

I tend to think of it as any unclaimed goods floating in a Faction's space belong to the governing faction of that system.

Of course this would work better if the "stolen" cargo became "salvaged" when outside the jurisdictional space of the claiming faction...

 

[Redcon One]

uh...no

All due respect to your opinion I must thoroughly disagree with you. The idea of cash for trade goods on this game is ludicrous to me, and I am not against cash deals in principle. This is a game too young, you would have nothing tangible to gain. Plus they already have their own microtransaction shop up so they could always undercut and/or eliminate any market like that. Just my opinion of course.




Oh my SS is ready! haha stupid BBS

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f3ugl0fevt36kc0/triplebinary.jpg?dl=0

 

[Redcon One]

Holy Hell!! I didn't make it back online in time to make the money to pay off my 91k fine. Seems they tuned the fine to bounty ratio a bit since gamma. its a 3:1 ratio...273,000 bounty...all for salvage. Well im hanging around Mopanyane>Zaragas(excellent mining!) making some money to pay it off. If anyone's feeling froggy that is.....*wink* they really need to tweak this

 

[AndyWeller]

I agree with the OP. seems a little harsh to have all these goods floating out there ripe for pickup as part of the game only then to overly punish the gamer for picking them up.

 

[Weps]

This has been discussed before and the consensus was, goods that "fell of a truck" are not yours, they're stolen. Same here, just because canisters float in space does not make them belong to the first person who finds them.

If the heat is too much for picked up canisters, refrain from picking them up. If the game is too hard in the beginning and you're not making enough money, let's discuss that, not the fact that fines are issued for stolen goods.

 

[n0ahg]

"In the United Kingdom under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, jetsam, flotsam, lagan and all other cargo and wreckage remain the property of their original owners. Anyone, including recreational divers and beachcombers, removing those goods must inform the Receiver of Wreck to avoid the accusation of theft."

From http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_salvage

 

[Kozferatu]

'Theft by finding' unless you are intending to hand them in to their righful owner and not convert them to your own use - by selling them on the black market for tasty credits.

I like the mechanic as it is at the moment with the goods being flagged as stolen, but look forward to future improvements in gameplay with inclusion of salvage permits etc.

 

[Redcon One]

well salvage laws haven't changed much for a couple hundred years at least in principle. You find something you bring it back, if its owner can't be located you file the paperwork and it becomes yours after xx time. Simple. If you find a ship, you would salvage it, locate the owner and get award based on value + danger of salvage up to 100% of the value of ship and with maritime liens a fact of life with salvage more likely than not the owner will simply sign over the vessel than pay. No reason space salvage should be any different at all if the owner is dead there is no one to claim ownership, if it was stolen in the first place its stolen, perhaps hand it in for federal faction boost + 10% value. The entire 'fell off a truck' argument is silly, that phrase is about directly stealing goods, someone salvaging is doing no such thing. You speak of canisters just floating in space like space is small..400 billion stars spread out across the entire milky way galaxy and we are talking about 5-10 tiny canisters among those 10¹⁰⁰ Kilometers(or Googol). Anyways here is the actual UK maritime law which is where the international convention on maritime law was signed in 1989 in london. Don't talk down to people weps especially someone who obviously joined this board yesterday so has no way of knowing this has been discussed before or what the consensus was. http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/conven/salvage1989.html

 

[X2Eliah]

When you pick up stolen goods, don't fly to the big stations, fly to the little outposts (and if in empire space, to the outposts that have independent owner factions, to get the black market deals). No system security ships around those.
Oh, and don't get interdicted

A 'salvage' style mechanic for floating-in-space stuff, where you pick them up and get an (optional) mission to bring the goods back to owner for a 'finders fee' would be nice to have. Or just some king of way, whatever, to let 'legit' players make use of the floating stuff (and drops from killing wanted people) without becoming criminals.

 

[Slategrey252]

Add a salvage licence.

 

[Macgyver]

This has been discussed before and the consensus was, goods that "fell of a truck" are not yours, they're stolen. Same here, just because canisters float in space does not make them belong to the first person who finds them.

If the heat is too much for picked up canisters, refrain from picking them up. If the game is too hard in the beginning and you're not making enough money, let's discuss that, not the fact that fines are issued for stolen goods.

its a freakin game... Make it enjoyable. What other game treats dropped loot as stolen and fines you for it ?sheesh, this ain't real life ok.

 

[Krait_79]

Bounties and Fines are harsh. They should be. They are the only 'Law Enforcement' in the land at the moment. I enjoy exploring and filling market orders its good money. I don't trade in illicit goods very often as I am just getting started and I can't afford the huge fines associated with them. I don't take missions that are clearly illegal unless the payoff is just too good to ignore and then I assume the risks. I fly a fully kitted Adder I call my Battle Can because its fast(ish), holds more than a hauler, has 3 guns(1 med better than eagle), and has shields same as a cobra with armor of a viper so I do get in a fair bit of dust-ups with pirates. More often than not when taking out a larger rat say a cobra or asp they have attempted to FSD out and left behind something or when they get spaced some of the pieces are cargo. Or perhaps I just happened upon a recent battle where everyone died and random cargo is just there. This, my friends, is SALVAGE. Every privateer, spacer and trader knows if its not tied down and its not claimed its up for grabs. But one thing it is not...its not STOLEN. I have worked for the last several hours towards paying off a 91,000 fine in fed space for my 'Stolen' cargo. It wasn't contraband or illegal i got very lucky and found a bunch of gallite(sp?) left over after the feds spaced a rat then they FSD'd out and it was just me and the cans floating there..I didn't steal it..owner was dead it wasn't outlawed in the system. I picked it up headed back to home base and on the way got interdicted by some rat, killed him and soon as I finished him FSS shows up and scans me..boom 91k fine. I have 24 hours to pay it off or it becomes a 120k bounty =/


See my issue? Salvage should not be flagged Stolen unless its stolen....or illegal contraband...that should be an entirely different flag..


On the bright side as I was sitting there mad as all hell at the stupid ass feds I was enjoying the view and it reminded me why I can't stay mad long. 3 sun system, but a binary pair in close orbit...amazing



Well HELL I can't post an image...not even a LINK to my image? oh bloody hell...i'll have to post it after I post another post..it said 2 posts thats like 8 posts....oh it meant actual posts not the word posts..lmao hehe

I'm really hoping they implement salvage in game soon. It is supposedly planned!

 

[hartsr]

What happens if you are toast and go back to collect your own cargo, I crashed into a type-7 on station approach (yes I am a T-IR fool, came in too hot looking the wrong way) lost full cargo of 230,000Cr gold. Was so mad I didn't go back to see if it was still there, but if it was would that be 'stolen'?

 

[Darkium]

Today I found some "ancient artefact" flying randomly in space. Took them in and saw the stolen flag. I was stealing from a long dead civilization hahaha.

 

[Missfire]

I believe FDev have done this for a reason. It is to try and stop 3rd party groups profiting from their game by selling goods for RL money. This is a common problem in allot of MMOs where you pay someone real money and they give you gold/goods/equipment in game to boost your play. By marking all dumped goods as stolen it discourages this activity.

From what I've heard, CMDR's that drop cargo they own is fair game. Can't remember where I read this though. I'll fish it out if I can.

 

[jgm]

its a freakin game... Make it enjoyable. What other game treats dropped loot as stolen and fines you for it ?sheesh, this ain't real life ok.

It is enjoyable right now, if you bother to put a tiny bit of thought in to your choices.