Elite: Easymode. NPCs stop shooting 'your' target...whatever next? (rambling rant)

[Tar Stone]

It almost seems like its not the same dev team anymore.

+1

Something has changed.

And now because this mechanic is in play, we'll have to have all sorts of other convoluted mechanics to try and make it work and keep everyone happy. 20% hull damage with 3 seconds, or will it be 50% damage and 10 seconds, or will we split the bounty based on damage but only if you do more than 10% damage, or how about we just have the game we were told we were getting and not D&D.

 

[bonsek]

Well it is an era when there are racing games with a rewind button, where people have an attention span of a gnat, where people want instant gratification.

And devs are starting to adjust the game to appease the mainstream.

I

 

[Jackboot]

And the fact NPCs can't get bounties from shooting you, where as they can blow you to pieces the second you hit them, doesn't destroy immersion?

That is something is immersion breaking and gamey, frecked up AI.

They do get bounties. I was just at a nav point earlier today, a clean viper told me to drop my cargo, etc. etc. and fired on me and turned red. He was green and part of a faction that was part of the Empire before, so I didn't attack back. I flew away but when I targeted him later he had a 400cr bounty. Same bounty I would have got if I had fired first. The "fact" you are referring to here is not a fact at all, but something you have made up in your head to justify a position that unrealistic gamey gameplay is somehow a good thing.

Try it. Load up on gold, sit at a nav point. Pirate type NPC's will attack you. Some of them will be clean when they do, and have a bounty right after they attack. You may have to switch targets first to see it update though as the interface does not change in real time.

I don't know if this works with the occasional stray shot from an NPC, because that hasn't happened to me yet. But even if it did, its the least we can do since they can't claim bounties anymore once you do any damage and "tag" targets as yours...

 

[Ghostile]

+1

Something has changed.

And now because this mechanic is in play, we'll have to have all sorts of other convoluted mechanics to try and make it work and keep everyone happy. 20% hull damage with 3 seconds, or will it be 50% damage and 10 seconds, or will we split the bounty based on damage but only if you do more than 10% damage, or how about we just have the game we were told we were getting and not D&D.

Or maybe you throw in ideas that profit everyone?
For example you could try to come up with some actually good and intelligent ideas, which could profit everyone?

 

[zeep]

NPC's are pilots who want to make that kill just as much as you do. They also want to earn those credits. Human pilots would also steal a kill from other (NPC) pilots, even from other human pilots.

This is the galaxy FD created. Living breathing world.

Oh except when Newkid762 is shooting at that ship there. "Block AI when the hull reaches x%, Newkid762 needs to win ofcourse."

What all that whining is doing is making NPC's play with with hands tied behind their back. Taking away the need to be on your toes when 4 ships are attacking your target too, because hey, you're going to get the credits anyway. It's altering rules to soothe the new-Elite players. Forcing dumbness in the universe because newkids don't want to be alone.

 

[Ghostile]

I don't know if this works with the occasional stray shot from an NPC, because that hasn't happened to me yet. But even if it did, its the least we can do since they can't claim bounties anymore once you do any damage and "tag" targets as yours...

It doesn't work on that, they can shoot you with a <snip> railgun, 4 times and there's nothing on them.
You can't retaliate until their code says "yarr, put on pirate mode"
And here's where you're wrong, you can't just "tag" pirates and "take" the bounty off the NPC, you need to damage it inside 10 second window of it's destruction.

 

[Jackboot]

+1

Something has changed.

And now because this mechanic is in play, we'll have to have all sorts of other convoluted mechanics to try and make it work and keep everyone happy. 20% hull damage with 3 seconds, or will it be 50% damage and 10 seconds, or will we split the bounty based on damage but only if you do more than 10% damage, or how about we just have the game we were told we were getting and not D&D.

Yep. Its like I said before, when good games get released we have to race to play them in the first week or two before the forum whiners change it to make it watered down and boring and generally destroy the experience. Happens to lots of games and devs who try to appeal to the masses to chase the golden ring ($$$) and end up alienating the core base of people who are actually enjoying themselves. Usually I just wish them luck in getting rich and move on.

However Elite generally and honestly presented itself as being different in the beginning. Thats why this is surprising instead of expected like it would be with other titles.

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It doesn't work on that, they can shoot you with a bloody railgun, 4 times and there's nothing on them.

Fair enough, this is a bug then and should be fixed.

 

[bonsek]

With the lack of numbers of CMDRs at nav points or resource centers, the only competition for bounties are the NPCs.
Now they are santa's lil helpers.

 

[Vasious]

- Cargo insurance
- Reduced interdictions
- NPC AI reduced from beta
- NPCs with no shields
- USSs with multiple attackers no longer exist
- Supercruise dropout distance reduced, you now drop out at the front door
- Insurance tweaks to increase penalty of ship destruction were reversed

edit:

- Idiot arrows on the station holo to tell you where to dock
- Collision damage reduced


edit:

- Interdiction mechanic so easy it is essentially a "Y/N" to go into combat

• Is there cargo insurance? I did not actually know that
• Isnt the reduction of interdictions to being friendly with the factions in the system? Someone else had a thread experimenting with interdiction rates when wanted vs clean and legal vs illegal cargo. Suggested a correlation
• Cant speak to the AI skill levels, I am very poor a judge there. How much better am I then when I was terrible in beta...
• Shields are not mandatory - I sometime fly without, even on combat ships, less mass. No reason Harmless and mostly harmless AI pilots might do the same, I believe high rated AI's lacking shields was a tuning error when the Dev posted.
• USS with multiple attackers do still exist
• Ironically the safe 8 km drop out can put you into the rear of certain Orbis stations but I do miss the 20 km ones too
• Not sure what insurance tweaks happened other that the "upset" over the gift to the early backers, which was a different issue to dumbing down, more excessive entitlement
• The "idiotic arrows" are the only indication of the entrance to the station for new players if they are not facing the station at the correct angle for the slit to show in the HUD. When we first played the game, did we all know intuitively that the station entrance (on every station after there was more than one) was on the counter clock wise side, with out any outside info like the forums?
• The main collision damage issue was Federal fighters which has a mass of 100000 tons, other collision damage is still potentially legal as I found when I hit another player who was boosting out of the station in a hauler, I think we both blew up.
• I'll agree the AI seems to give up after a certain length of time which is odd when the bars are at the 50% mark

 

[Tar Stone]

However Elite generally and honestly presented itself as being different in the beginning. Thats why this is surprising instead of expected like it would be with other titles.

It absolutely did and this isn't said enough.

 

[bonsek]

This was one of the main points in the begining.

 

[Tar Stone]

@Vasious

Those changes I've highlighted indicate a trend which matches my own experience with the game since beta. It's a safer, easier experience than it once was.

That's fine if that's what they want to do, but they have completely misrepresented it over the last year as an uncompromising Elite title if that's the case. They hit a sweet spot and then just kept going. I even made a big positive and pleading post at the time when I felt they'd hit the money not to "ruin the mix".

edit - here's what I said at the beginning of October for anyone who's interested!
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=47498

 

[Ghostile]

@Vasious

Those changes I've highlighted indicate a trend which matches my own experience with the game since beta. It's a safer, easier experience than it once was.

That's fine if that's what they want to do, but they have completely misrepresented it over the last year as an uncompromising Elite title if that's the case. They hit a sweet spot and then just kept going. I even made a big positive and pleading post at the time when I felt they'd hit the money not to "ruin the mix".

edit - here's what I said at the beginning of October for anyone who's interested!
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=47498

You do notice how the year was 1982?
They weren't remixing it 30 years later.

 

[Tar Stone]

You do notice how the year was 1982?
They weren't remixing it 30 years later.

Actually they were, Quincy Jones was too smart to sit on all that old audio.

 

[Beermachine]

Imagine how this change will play out in a large warzone scenario:
Old optimal strategy: Target and shoot ship until dead, move onto next ship.
New optimal strategy: Fly around "bounty tagging" as many ships as possible while the NPC's destroy them.

 

[Ghostile]

Imagine how this change will play out in a large warzone scenario:
Old optimal strategy: Target and shoot ship until dead, move onto next ship.
New optimal strategy: Fly around "bounty tagging" as many ships as possible while the NPC's destroy them.

What bothers me the most, is how you guys can't but see the grim dark instead of even trying to think something to work it out.

This little nightmare of yours, could be easily countered by adding a shorter timer to warzones or remove the thing all together from warzones, keeping them as a place for more experienced pilots.

But no, must concentrate on complaining and looking at the grim dark future.

 

[Tar Stone]

What bothers me the most, is how you guys can't but see the grim dark instead of even trying to think something to work it out.

This little nightmare of yours, could be easily countered by adding a shorter timer to warzones or remove the thing all together from warzones, keeping them as a place for more experienced pilots.

But no, must concentrate on complaining and looking at the grim dark future.

Doesn't wash mate, sorry. Nobody wanted to think their way around it the way it was before, when it actually made sense.

Now we are supposed to dream up another mechanic to fix a mechanic that wasn't necessary in the first place.

If you choose to see my input as dark and grim and complaining then I suggest you add me to your forum ignore list, as I'm adding you to mine.

 

[Beermachine]

What bothers me the most, is how you guys can't but see the grim dark instead of even trying to think something to work it out.

This little nightmare of yours, could be easily countered by adding a shorter timer to warzones or remove the thing all together from warzones, keeping them as a place for more experienced pilots.

But no, must concentrate on complaining and looking at the grim dark future.

Of course there are many systems to counter abuse. Apologies, I'm pretty ambivalent on this whole issue, it's a very minor thing to me either way, but the points made by people who have seen the gradual changes from beta onwards are valid.

 

[Ghostile]

Doesn't wash mate, sorry. Nobody wanted to think their way around it the way it was before, when it actually made sense.

Now we are supposed to dream up another mechanic to fix a mechanic that wasn't necessary in the first place.

If you choose to see my input as dark and grim and complaining then I suggest you add me to your forum ignore list, as I'm adding you to mine.

Replying to you anyway.
All you do is lay on your back and let everyone know you wait for the death to collect you, that is why I look at it as grim dark.
You don't even try to look for possibilities to make the game better, just try to think you are betrayed and more important than the new players.

 

[TankMaster]

Guys, it's easy, you want hard combat? Designate a nav point in an anarchy system as PvP central, announce it on the forums and have a go at each other -_-