Elite: Easymode. NPCs stop shooting 'your' target...whatever next? (rambling rant)

[Renegade Roach]

I'm quite sure they are fine tuning it, and will continue for the life of the game, and that includes adding more challenges, more challenging missions and so on. I was surprised, and not at all unhappy to have been interdicted so often today, it livens the game up, and I can run if I need to. Perhaps they are in at the weekend, tinkering. I agree entirely that less secure systems should be more dangerous, and if danger is what you want, you go there. They have enough systems to do that with, and I'm pretty sure it will come. The game is easily big enough to accommodate those who want a safe easy life, and those who are looking for an adrenaline rush, although I'm sure there are better places to get adrenaline rushes than in front of a computer!

I think there's a big difference to content, which can be easily tuned and added to or removed from areas, and mechanics. Mechanics by their nature need to be more or less constant across the game world or it gets weird and very confusing. Sometimes you can tinker with it, so say station run ins could be kept at 8k inhigh security systems but extended in low security.. with the run in for an anarchy being a real risk for slow ships. Other things like the 'killing shot' mechanic and supercruise have to be consistent and obviously some matter more than others. Take SC.. a lot of the new players (and some of the old) moaning about how long it takes have never done interdictions. They don't know how it works from the hunter's perspective and thus do not understand that reducing SC times would seriously gimp a pirate or bounty hunter's ability to identify and interdict targets.

As Tar Stone rightly points out a lot of this stuff has been debated for months in the beta forum and folks get tired of laying it all out, especially to new players who have not taken the time to get to know the game and actually think about it before whining. That's when folks get annoyed and where my comment about new players 'not having the right' to moan came from. Nobody is saying that new guys can't suggest or question things, but have some self respect and don't leap in with hyperbolic rants which amount to 'no fair'.

*sigh* minor rant over

 

[Faded Glory]

I think there's a big difference to content, which can be easily tuned and added to or removed from areas, and mechanics. Mechanics by their nature need to be more or less constant across the game world or it gets weird and very confusing. Sometimes you can tinker with it, so say station run ins could be kept at 8k inhigh security systems but extended in low security.. with the run in for an anarchy being a real risk for slow ships. Other things like the 'killing shot' mechanic and supercruise have to be consistent and obviously some matter more than others. Take SC.. a lot of the new players (and some of the old) moaning about how long it takes have never done interdictions. They don't know how it works from the hunter's perspective and thus do not understand that reducing SC times would seriously gimp a pirate or bounty hunter's ability to identify and interdict targets.

As Tar Stone rightly points out a lot of this stuff has been debated for months in the beta forum and folks get tired of laying it all out, especially to new players who have not taken the time to get to know the game and actually think about it before whining. That's when folks get annoyed and where my comment about new players 'not having the right' to moan came from. Nobody is saying that new guys can't suggest or question things, but have some self respect and don't leap in with hyperbolic rants which amount to 'no fair'.

*sigh* minor rant over

All good points, and no disagreement from me. I've not seen too many rants (not none, just not a whole lot) about the game being too difficult. I have seen more responding to these type of threads pointing out that it's hard when you first take off, and it's why I keep going on about the benefits of having choices, which we do have, and which will let the game grow for everybody. There are other threads with good suggestions , such as https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=81604&page=10. I joined about a month ago, having played FE2 for literally ages, (and that was pretty hard too until you got the hang of it), and I found this game very challenging to start with, and there are still plenty of challenges in it for me, especially with regards to my piloting and combat skills, but I do get better every time I play, and I have fun playing, which is the most important thing I think.

And I'll just say again, my view is that this game is easily big enough to accommodate not only every skill level of player, but also every 'style' of player, whether it's to do with combat, trading or exploration. I'm pretty sure FD have a route map of things they want to implement to grow the game, and as long as they have players/customers, they will do it, so in the short term they may make compromises to try not to alienate users. I'm not panicking, Frontier was incredibly limited compared to this, and I still happily played it for ages.

 

[Cube]

I don't understand how so many people are defending what was clearly a broken and blatantly unfair mechanic. At one point in the past, Goonswarm declared their ultimate goal was to ruin EVE Online. Literally, to ruin the game for everyone else and eventually make it fold.

Makes you wonder why there are suddenly all these people here on the forums fighting to keep the game broken...

No, we're all rolling our eyes at the sentiment expressed in the OP too.

 

[Antenociti]

. Ive never heard as much whinging about difficulty and wanting an easier ride as I have from PC owners and this game in all my life.

try working in the MMO industry then - this is par for the course.

 

[Sarutoshi]

I now fully expect friendly fire to be adjusted allowing you to hit clean ships a few times without penalty, at which point I will give up on this game.

That's actually a perfectly reasonable and good idea, what's wrong with that? That idea has my vote.

 

[Commander Yog Sothoth]

I behave as a professional bounty hunter should; ruthless, patient and cunning. I have engaged Pythons and Anacondas way above my ability and then kited them toward other large ships; their turrets aggro said ship and they engage as I fly away. I sit and watch...sometimes for a long time. When I see that hull down at an acceptable level, I zip and and finish them off even if I have to block the LOS from the assisting ship. Taking a few hits at the end from the rear as you get the firing vector is worth the 50K bounty. I'm the kind of guy that gets the evil eye in spaceport bars from AI bounty hunters

The best part is that they can't post on the forums about what a ******* I am! It cuts both ways and I don't mind what is done with the mechanic either way. I tend to lean toward liking the challenge of outwitting a rival.

 

[euclydian]

That's actually a perfectly reasonable and good idea, what's wrong with that? That idea has my vote.

Because it provides for more enjoyable combat as it is. If everything that requires any degree of skill is removed it will make for a very dull game.

 

[8ballirish]

Having had several 40k+ bounties taken from me by the local security forces for not remembering to turn off "report crimes against me", frankly this is a welcome change, atleast if you "earn" the kill so to speak.

 

[Kozferatu]

I think they've gone too far the other way now - if system security (or possibly any other NPC ship) destroys your wanted target you still get the bounty. I's happened twice to me just now, first time the killing shot was a missile (and I hadn't fired mine), second time I was facing other direction and trying to turn around to engage.

I can understand the frustration of losing the bounty when some other NPC gets in the final shot, particularly after an epic battle, but I prefer it to this current mechanism. Life isn't supposed to be fair.

 

[Phrygian]

I've lost some tasty bounties to NPCs and the cops, but I don't like the idea they might now sit back and let me have at it. It feels artificial, like I'm the only bounty hunter in the galaxy. Why the hell would they pass up in the tasty bounty themselves?

Plus, it makes me annoyed after feeling so pleased from adapting my play style so that I always get the last hit.


On the other hand, tonight I've noticed more NPCs FSD-ing out of dodge before I can take them down than usual. So, you know, I'm still getting robbed

 

[Armour]

I actually think it should be harder for strangers/novices to get bounties. I know, right?

Here's my reasoning. If your combat ranking is high enough, and if whoever runs things in your current system are friendly, their cops should probably leave you to it usually. They know you can handle yourself and they know you've done enough dirty work to get in with the brass, so they should think twice before trying to horn in on your action. However, if you're green and your combat ranking is unmpressive, then the cops should almost always jump in. This may make bounty hunting a difficult career for new players to jump right into, but that's probably how it should be.

I also think that players should be able to get a badge and get offered cop jobs (patrol this area, scan for illegal cargo, apprehend this fugitive if they show up in system) - but that's probably something for the future, once the devs have got all that multiplayer stuff they are talking about into the game.

Also, NPCs should be more formidable opponents in combat - they're meant to be fighting for their lives. Any Elite-ranked pilot being taken out should be a very big deal - just seeing such a ranking should be quite a rare event, and should strike fear into the hearts of any would-be gunslinger. Their ships should be tuned to perfection, their defences impregnable, and their weapons ferocious. Right now, they appear to be a wee bit too ordinary.

Finally, NPCs probably shouldn't be distinguishable from us at first glance. The reason for that decision still eludes me. It's like we are playing a game under an anti-AI apartheid regime or something.

 

[Maltavius]

Absolutely agree with your entire post and quoted the bit I really really agree with

I've lost some tasty bounties to NPCs and the cops, but I don't like the idea they might now sit back and let me have at it. It feels artificial, like I'm the only bounty hunter in the galaxy. Why the hell would they pass up in the tasty bounty themselves?

They don't pass up the bounty or stop and sit back. If you fire on the target 10 seconds within his final breath you get the bounty even if an NPC fires the killing shots.

It prevents the feeling of getting your kills stolen from the NPCs but maybe 10 seconds is too much.

TO prevent people from exploiting this and letting the NPCs do their job I think that you should have made at least 50% of the damage to the target as well as having fired in the last 5-10 seconds of his life. The problem this poses is with capital ships where a lot of players cooperate and maybe do 25-30% damage each to the ship in question.

 

[Lestat]

If you're private security helping the police take down a Cartel boss and the last bullet fired was by some random cop, they don't refuse to pay you because you didn't fire the killing shot.

At least it was a challenge not Dumbed down to the point a 6 year old child can do it.

 

[Im_Lost]

I dont see how you could loose kills to NPCs. They miss like 80% of their shots by 100s of meters. They do so little damage it's barely noticeable :/

Change it back and have the reward given to the one who did most hull damage instead. Or dished out fairly to all involved based on percentage of damage done.

 

[Ghostile]

At least it was a challenge not Dumbed down to the point a 6 year old child can do it.

I personally think challenge should come from other than mechanics.

This is why I am on the side for easier around starting systems and harder out there.
Nothing like the feeling of progression.

 

[Amaze]

I dont see how you could loose kills to NPCs. They miss like 80% of their shots by 100s of meters. They do so little damage it's barely noticeable :/

Change it back and have the reward given to the one who did most hull damage instead. Or dished out fairly to all involved based on percentage of damage done.

Here's the thing though, this change makes hardly any difference to experienced players.

If the kill goes to who does the most damage then that will be exactly the same again because the NPCs do very little damage.

So the way I see it the change is only to help the newer players who probably will get annoyed at getting NPCs stealing kills.
Newcomers to the game are the only players who would do less damage then the NPCS.

It does not hurt or even change the way experienced pilots play so we shouldn't be making such a fuss over this.

 

[Phrygian]

They don't pass up the bounty or stop and sit back. If you fire on the target 10 seconds within his final breath you get the bounty even if an NPC fires the killing shots.

Ah, well, that's a bit different. In that case, I can't say I'm terribly fussed over it.

 

[Stivius]

Cant damage anything at 0% health, thats when you fired you should be firing on the ship when its in the 20% bracket at least. If you had the security vessel ramming it would have made no difference and you would have gotten the bounty.

 

[Jackboot]

That's actually a perfectly reasonable and good idea, what's wrong with that? That idea has my vote.

Whats wrong with it, is the same thing that is wrong with this 10 second bounty rule. It destroys immersion because it is extremely unrealistic and gamey.

I don't play this game for its great storyline and character development. I play it to be immersed in a universe. When I am constantly reminded that the other people in this universe are NPC's because they do things that real people would never do as part of a gamey mechanic (like not claiming bounties they kill or not shooting back if you shoot them) it destroys the immersion and the fun for me.

I really can't believe David Braben is on board for all of these types of changes. We shouldn't have to be constantly fighting for the importance of immersion in this game.

It almost seems like its not the same dev team anymore.

 

[Ghostile]

Whats wrong with it, is the same thing that is wrong with this 10 second bounty rule. It destroys immersion because it is extremely unrealistic and gamey.

And the fact NPCs can't get bounties from shooting you, where as they can blow you to pieces the second you hit them, doesn't destroy immersion?

That is something is immersion breaking and gamey, frecked up AI.

It almost seems like its not the same dev team anymore.

It's the same dev team, it just isn't the same year anymore.