There is not a one bounty hunting trip that hasn't ended with "oh I'm being shot at, 0 fines, 0 bounty, just shot at, gotta run home"
Shot at by either feds or NPCs that are not wanted.
Police Brutality
- Thread starter mormomboy
- Start date
Shot at by either feds or NPCs that are not wanted.
Yup pretty much what I'm finding bounty hunting at an extraction site. If i hang around long enough they always turn on me in the end (after 1-10 kills). Once tried sticking it out for a couple more bounty kills, should of known better since security had a couple of Anacondas in the area. Destroyed my cobra in a single shot from near full shields (plasma I think), of course I was clean at the time. Not making that mistake again.
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+1 totally agree the current system isn't the best solution.
There are always going to be situations in a multi ship fight where friendly fire occurs, be it real players, cops or competing bounty hunters and whilst you can look out for all of the things suggested, some times you just cannot react fast enough to avoid an accidental hit.
The system as it stands is too sensitive and the reaction from the security service too severe. It could benefit from some tuning.
Personally I like the X series "sorry, that was an accident" feature. Also not getting "wanted" status so quickly or not being dealt with so harshly if you didn't target the friendly would be better IMO.
I was flying with a buddy yesterday and he was flying on my wing while I was attacking. I braked and he overshot and took a few shots. Of course he turned red and I was wanted which got the attention of the feds. Having the ability to "forgive" someone and forgo a bounty on an ally should be featured.
In short, there are plenty of ways to solve this problem, I suspect FD are aware of it and something will change.
E: why does this forum remove carriage returns from posts? Makes it a wall of text
There are always going to be situations in a multi ship fight where friendly fire occurs, be it real players, cops or competing bounty hunters and whilst you can look out for all of the things suggested, some times you just cannot react fast enough to avoid an accidental hit.
The system as it stands is too sensitive and the reaction from the security service too severe. It could benefit from some tuning.
Personally I like the X series "sorry, that was an accident" feature. Also not getting "wanted" status so quickly or not being dealt with so harshly if you didn't target the friendly would be better IMO.
I was flying with a buddy yesterday and he was flying on my wing while I was attacking. I braked and he overshot and took a few shots. Of course he turned red and I was wanted which got the attention of the feds. Having the ability to "forgive" someone and forgo a bounty on an ally should be featured.
In short, there are plenty of ways to solve this problem, I suspect FD are aware of it and something will change.
E: why does this forum remove carriage returns from posts? Makes it a wall of text
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I would say that the Feds should also have some situational awareness. If I'm wearing down someones shields WITH A BEAM LASER then the Fed Eagle can see THE FRICKING BEAM LASER and not fly through it.
How hard is that? I personally avoid flying though killy beams of death surely they cover it in Police Pilot school.
The current system means I have to take care and adds interest to the combat for me. Using radar & different weapons when appropriate means I very rarely hit the wrong ship and I accept that when I do it is my fault. I'd maybe agree with large fines over becoming wanted though, if it really has to be changed at all.
I don't think this is better as you're turning friendly fire a non-issue.
Friendly fire is why a fight involving friendlies is harder that a one on one. Making it so I can strafe a laser across a cop's hull and not have to bother releasing the trigger does not improve combat. It just doesn't. =/
I think the only potential issue here is that NPCs could be a bit more careful but in reality do players EVER think about if they are getting in someone's line of fire? No of course not.
And just to cross post :
Just been in a bunch of fights hunting pirates. First one I was careless and hit the security forces, each fight after that I entered in a wanted state.
And do you know what, all it really did was increase the difficulty a bit and made the fights a helluva lot more interesting.
Go figure.
ED's combat has been highly praised in reviews. Friendly fire is whole extra layer in combat, it's one more thing to manage and it's what differentiates a furball with friendlies from a one on one, it literally adds variety and makes combat more interesting, please please don't allow friendly fire without significant repercussion. =/
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Friendly fire should absolutely NOT be consequence free. It's sloppy fire control. If you're using gimballed/turreted weapons, use "Fire at will" mode at your peril. Always ensure your multicannons *only* fire when you press Fire if you want to fly with allied ships.
However, I think the instant wanted status should be changed. You should receive a fine and a small reputation loss for the first friendly fire instance. The second should get you wanted.
However, I think the instant wanted status should be changed. You should receive a fine and a small reputation loss for the first friendly fire instance. The second should get you wanted.
Naturally it can't go consequence free, but when it's not in the AIs code to watch for that fire, the consequences should limit to x fine per hit until a certain threshold is reached and it turns into bounty.
I can assure you this is being looked at, see https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=80494 thread for a response from a Dev regarding this. I hope this helps.
Security are security they have the greater right to be chasing down criminals. If you know security are there and hunting the same target as you..
1. Dont get tunnel vision on your target, use your lateral thrusters so you are off to the side of the chase.
2. Watch for fire going to your target,use your lateral thrusters to move yourself away from their line of sight.
Both of these will reduce the chance of collisions and miss fires on the security forces.
Take a look at this video i made back in SB2 (15:00 and 36:00 roughly), two chases five+ security vessels involved, not one miss shot or collision and this was back when people were screaming out about AI always colliding with you. Be proactive. Is this going to stop all occurrences. No.
I agree that the automatic bounty for A miss fire is a little harsh and something could be done to limit this but not to the extent that skill and good pilot awareness is eliminated like the recent change to last shot counts rule has done, which is just ridiculous at the moment, why would security make exceptions for you, but this is for another thread.
The one thing that really needs sorting out at the moment is the security attacking you for no reason whilst your engaging a wanted, there are some plausible reason i can think of for this happening, like the wanted is the same faction as the cops in a corrupt corporate state maybe but it generally happens way to often for this to be the main reason.
1. Dont get tunnel vision on your target, use your lateral thrusters so you are off to the side of the chase.
2. Watch for fire going to your target,use your lateral thrusters to move yourself away from their line of sight.
Both of these will reduce the chance of collisions and miss fires on the security forces.
Take a look at this video i made back in SB2 (15:00 and 36:00 roughly), two chases five+ security vessels involved, not one miss shot or collision and this was back when people were screaming out about AI always colliding with you. Be proactive. Is this going to stop all occurrences. No.
I agree that the automatic bounty for A miss fire is a little harsh and something could be done to limit this but not to the extent that skill and good pilot awareness is eliminated like the recent change to last shot counts rule has done, which is just ridiculous at the moment, why would security make exceptions for you, but this is for another thread.
The one thing that really needs sorting out at the moment is the security attacking you for no reason whilst your engaging a wanted, there are some plausible reason i can think of for this happening, like the wanted is the same faction as the cops in a corrupt corporate state maybe but it generally happens way to often for this to be the main reason.
Once again, my bounty hunting was interrupted by 2 hostile police Vipers, wasn't even a question whether I stop there or keep hunting with these 2 grinding my shield.
What is weird, it seems like when you super cruise out of the nav point and return immediately, everything is fine again.
What is weird, it seems like when you super cruise out of the nav point and return immediately, everything is fine again.
I've had worse than that... I attack a wanted NPC, the feds then attack ME no bounty on my head, no wanted status at all... BUT the feds don't get a wanted status for an unwarranted attack against me! I dare not shoot back so run...
In my experience with this (Especially with Beam Turrets), when an 'officer' gets hit by your fire:
1) You're insta-wanted over 600 cr bounty.
2) The 'Green'/'Yellow' Officers on your radar STAY Green/Yellow for a few seconds more.
3) The Officer you shot, will instantly turn red, but not shoot at you.
4) About 10-30 seconds pass (An eternity in dogfights, and more than ample time to GTxO).
5) The Other officials will turn red, and they all start to target you.
6) About 2 to 4 more minutes, more officials may drop in to help slaughter you.
(I think officers basically go for the highest bounty in range first when it comes to multiples, then the closest bounty in range next)
In my opinion, I think that's pretty damn fair. The cops walk in on a two-person shootout not knowing who is in the wrong, you 'accidentially' shoot one of the officers in the leg. They see both parties as guilty, and open fire equally.
In my opinion, the only factor should be whoever has more positive faction with that Officer, should get more grace time, unless you hold SUPER HIGH RANK in that officer's faction, in which case, the officer lets you off with a 'Warning'.
There was talk in the game design discussions about how having a 'Well Maintained' ship in routine scans would have positive effects on your standing with Local System Officials. I think I'd like to see a combination of rank, standing, and system reputation have more effect on how officials react to you in these cases (Think 'Accident forgiveness'). And in some cases, you cannot be fined at all! "Oh, you shot the bad guy? I think we can look past that."
Until then, the Game Cops are treating everyone they don't know as the worst criminal in the universe out to get them, which I think is pretty much the Elite universe.
P.S. Take away the 'Oh we'll stop shooting so you can get the last shot' mechanic. Really?!?! This is 'Elite', right?!?!?
1) You're insta-wanted over 600 cr bounty.
2) The 'Green'/'Yellow' Officers on your radar STAY Green/Yellow for a few seconds more.
3) The Officer you shot, will instantly turn red, but not shoot at you.
4) About 10-30 seconds pass (An eternity in dogfights, and more than ample time to GTxO).
5) The Other officials will turn red, and they all start to target you.
6) About 2 to 4 more minutes, more officials may drop in to help slaughter you.
(I think officers basically go for the highest bounty in range first when it comes to multiples, then the closest bounty in range next)
In my opinion, I think that's pretty damn fair. The cops walk in on a two-person shootout not knowing who is in the wrong, you 'accidentially' shoot one of the officers in the leg. They see both parties as guilty, and open fire equally.
In my opinion, the only factor should be whoever has more positive faction with that Officer, should get more grace time, unless you hold SUPER HIGH RANK in that officer's faction, in which case, the officer lets you off with a 'Warning'.
There was talk in the game design discussions about how having a 'Well Maintained' ship in routine scans would have positive effects on your standing with Local System Officials. I think I'd like to see a combination of rank, standing, and system reputation have more effect on how officials react to you in these cases (Think 'Accident forgiveness'). And in some cases, you cannot be fined at all! "Oh, you shot the bad guy? I think we can look past that."
Until then, the Game Cops are treating everyone they don't know as the worst criminal in the universe out to get them, which I think is pretty much the Elite universe.
P.S. Take away the 'Oh we'll stop shooting so you can get the last shot' mechanic. Really?!?! This is 'Elite', right?!?!?
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And this much you know about it.
They don't stop shooting.
If there's anarchy, there should be no cops, right? :-D
