cobra vs viper. dogfights.

[Eldan Cross]

After claiming 500bounties and who knows how many no bounty kills with a viper, i went and bought a cobra to try.

I will try to make an objectively correct comparison between the two of them. with the focus being on pve or pvp fights and weapons. not trading, or exploring


So, after trying out a cobra i have to say this.
Cobra has 2xclass2 hardpoints on top, and 2 bottom of ship. What does that mean: hardpoints located top of the ship are best used with gimbaled weapons(or turrets but we're talking about cobra) If you use gimbaled weapons under the ship you effectively lose most of their fight value since our enemies are over us when we turn.
weapons:
Pro: if we use our fixed weapons under the cobra, and gimbaled on top, we have a close range dogfighter. because you will be able to constantly turn and top class2 weapons will be shooting on enemy.
fixed weapons will be used for accuracy longer range.
The con: When we use our big weapons as gimbaled, this mean we can not kite(long range fight) bigger enemies such as anacondas. because for gimbals to shoot a sub-system we'll have to stay close. and our fixed weapons will be class 1, meaning we will not do too much dmg while long range. and will be taking dmg close range.
We can put fixed weapons on top, and spec for big game hunting but we will have trouble with the smaller fighters. on turns. which means always.

So cobra is a fighter made to excel when fighting other similar sized fighters,or slow bigger ships with low firepower. it can hunt bigger game but has to stay close range and dogfight with the all around setup(gimbals up, fixed down). it does not need much aim, since most of the dmg will be dealt from the gimbaled weapons. For short term pvp, cobra can be equiped with bigger (ammo required) weapons and do better burst dmg than a viper(because of larger power supply).

Now lets talk about the viper. Viper has it's fixed (class2) weapons under the ship, while the class 1 are on top(gimbaled)
Viper is a ship made for experienced pilots. since the firepower here is on fixed hardpoints, we need good aim to effectively use this ship. For those close turns we use our gimbals and then shoot again from our fixed when we got our aim spot.
Because we have class2 aimed weaps we can long range kite anacondas and hit those subsystems with accuracy.

I believe that for close range pve and pvp with lots of turns,cobra is a better ship. viper can win, but cobra can win with less skill. auto aim close range wins.


But... When you npc bounty hunt for long periods of time, and you got the skill, viper is for you. I tried cobra and went back and sold it after an hour of fighting tests. Because i long range kite anacondas, and can't do that well with cobra. and stay good with smaller ships at the same time. With viper i can kill small ships with fixed weaps and gimbals on turns.(aim required) I use enegy weapons so i am not dependant on ammo. for anacondas i can easily take them out long range. elite anaconda maybe needs a power cell shot or 2, but can be done without.

I tried beam lasers but honestly i believe pulse lasers have better dmg over time. Beams have better burst dmg but overheat quick. pulses have more sustained dmg, better for bigger ships.

If you have something to add feel free! ofc cobra is a more durable ship aswell.

 

[blarkey]

This is actually the main reason why I swapped back to my Viper as well. As a non-trader, I still admire the Cobra for trying to go on par with the Viper in terms of firepower even with all that cargo space and jump range, but the real superior combat capability for me still stays with the Viper.

 

[jay88]

same for me. love the cobras fitting options (viper is ...anemic, to say the least), but the hardpoints and convergence left much to be desired. really hoping for more fighter/combat lineups soon, as the viper would, IMO, be a heavier light or medium at best.

(side note, really wish modules had more specific information as to their actual numbers, like power used per shot, actual damage numbers, and hardpoint convergence was shown when purchasing a ship, etc etc)

 

[Morbad]

For short term pvp, cobra can be equiped with bigger (ammo required) weapons and do better burst dmg than a viper(because of larger power supply).

9 times out of 10 the limiting factor will be power distributor, not power plant. Cobra and Viper mount the same distributor, and the Viper's power plant is sufficient for any combination of weapons it can mount other than class 2 rail guns or plasma accelerators plus other power hungy class 1 weapons.

I power 3.62MW of weapons on my Viper with zero power issues.

I believe that for close range pve and pvp with lots of turns,cobra is a better ship. viper can win, but cobra can win with less skill. auto aim close range wins.

I don't miss very often at close range, and fixed weapons do more damage than gimbaled.

I tried beam lasers but honestly i believe pulse lasers have better dmg over time. Beams have better burst dmg but overheat quick. pulses have more sustained dmg, better for bigger ships.

Beam lasers have better damage over time, but worse armor penetration.

Still, I find them sufficient against most armor and they are second to none against shields.

[video=youtube;8rPtvJ99CvY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rPtvJ99CvY[/video]

 

[ParaB]

In my Cobra I use fix beam lasers and gimballed autocannons.

The limited tracking of the lower side autocannons so far (100+ bounties claimed) is a non-issue to me.

 

[grodenglaive]

good info, thanks.

 

[Arch Raptor]

forgive for being stupid, but the only thing I know is a viper insta kills and a cobra I can have a good fight with and possibly kill them in a sidewinder. I've killed 4-5 cobras (I was at 15% str all the times) but it's a good fight. Viper, it looks at me, fires a single shot and I go boom.

 

[Eldan Cross]

9 times out of 10 the limiting factor will be power distributor, not power plant. Cobra and Viper mount the same distributor, and the Viper's power plant is sufficient for any combination of weapons it can mount other than class 2 rail guns or plasma accelerators plus other power hungy class 1 weapons.

I power 3.62MW of weapons on my Viper with zero power issues.

well just trying to be fair, cobra can fit more stuff. viper can too, but you'd have to sacrifice something i think.
Didn't actually try to see what. As i have a balanced A' stuff viper, i can't fit bigger weaps(nor do i want to) and i don't want to sacrifice any of my current equipment.

Beam lasers have better damage over time, but worse armor penetration.

Still, I find them sufficient against most armor and they are second to none against shields.

i don't know man.. i tried beam lasers too, and i find 4 pulse lasers (2 gimbaled 2 fixed) to work better for me. i can kill an anaconda while it has 50% armor left.
I generaly feel that i kill big ships faster with pulses. i never actually timed it to see the actual difference but when i used them, and when i see other people using beams in their videos it feels slow for me. The only thing that died fast(in my plays) with beams was some eagles and sideys were a small time frame dealt lots of dmg(more beam burst dmg) when i tried to kill fed ships etc. it felt really slow...
I also believe(not100% sure) that class 2 pulses have longer range than class2 beams. you can take down a subsystem while hanging at 2.50km+
if you haven't tried them, please do. if you did, then i guess it's a difference in playstyle

 

[Eldan Cross]

forgive for being stupid, but the only thing I know is a viper insta kills and a cobra I can have a good fight with and possibly kill them in a sidewinder. I've killed 4-5 cobras (I was at 15% str all the times) but it's a good fight. Viper, it looks at me, fires a single shot and I go boom.

noone's stupid here man both cobra and viper can use same weaps. cobra can use it's 2 class gimbaled as an advantage and make it a turning fight. but if they both face eachother, viper has an advantage when cobra use gimbals.
i dislike the cobra, but trying to find it's good points in a fight
a skilled pilot can fight much much better in a viper.

 

[Poseidal]

Do ships pitch up faster? If pitching is the same, is there a reason not to turn by pitching down to use those directional gimbals that way?

 

[Morbad]

i don't know man.. i tried beam lasers too, and i find 4 pulse lasers (2 gimbaled 2 fixed) to work better for me. i can kill an anaconda while it has 50% armor left.
I generaly feel that i kill big ships faster with pulses. i never actually timed it to see the actual difference but when i used them, and when i see other people using beams in their videos it feels slow for me. The only thing that died fast(in my plays) with beams was some eagles and sideys were a small time frame dealt lots of dmg(more beam burst dmg) when i tried to kill fed ships etc. it felt really slow...
I also believe(not100% sure) that class 2 pulses have longer range than class2 beams. you can take down a subsystem while hanging at 2.50km+
if you haven't tried them, please do. if you did, then i guess it's a difference in playstyle

They have the same range (3km) and same accuracy (almost perfect). Pulse lasers may have less damage drop off (all lasers lose damage the further away from the target you are), and clearly have better armor penetration.

Most of your sentiments are accurate. Pulse lasers do generally kill large ships faster. I simply find beam lasers to be more controllable (no waiting or missing because of cycle times) and more useful against shields, which is often the deciding factor in PvP.

I've used all medium (class 2) and smaller weapons currently in the game.

Do ships pitch up faster? If pitching is the same, is there a reason not to turn by pitching down to use those directional gimbals that way?

Pitch is the same in either direction for a given ship. However, visibility is much better up than down, and if you pitch down too fast while maneuvering you redout from the negative Gs.

 

[Carcharodon]

Do ships pitch up faster? If pitching is the same, is there a reason not to turn by pitching down to use those directional gimbals that way?

Same speed both directions, you can't see as much pitching down but I'm going to try it out over the next while and see how it feels.

 

[Mysturji]

Pitch is the same in either direction for a given ship. However, visibility is much better up than down, and if you pitch down too fast while maneuvering you redout from the negative Gs.

I think they pitch up slightly faster but not much. I've only ever seen excessive G-force in a Viper.

 

[Hayta]

If you want to be bounty hunter then viper, if you want to be a pirate and attack/scoop cargo ships then cobra.

 

[Flargana]

Great discussion guys, bought my viper last night (after 5 hrs of bounty hunting with base sidey lol), this info has been really useful- will try out pulses first i think

Would you recommend any other upgrades for a good b/h build, or just weapons?

Cheers all!

 

[Udayana]

We can put fixed weapons on top, and spec for big game hunting but we will have trouble with the smaller fighters. on turns. which means always.

I have fixed on top C2 of my cobra and turrets on the bottom C1. If smaller fighter goes up as you say, i pitch up, then quickly roll 180 and pitch down so my turrets can do the work. Works well me thinks.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

I used to think the cobra was as good, if not better in combat, then the viper, but after using the cobra for a while I realized how wrong I was.

The hardpoint placement is so terrible on the cobra compared to the viper, this can not be stated enough. The class 1s are waaaaay too far apart to hit anything without gimbals. Even the front class 2s have worse placement than the vipers class 2s. With 2 c2 fixed pulse lasers I can't hit both at the same time at closer than 1km.

 

[Udayana]

Same speed both directions, you can't see as much pitching down but I'm going to try it out over the next while and see how it feels.

Never tried it with gimbals on the bottom. At least with turrets you don't need to have visibility as long as he is not behind you

 

[KingVerdict]

I killed an anaconda in about 30-40 seconds and took no damage in my viper. I use all gimbaled weapons, 1xpulse Class 1, 1xmulti cannon Class 1, 2xmulti cannon Class 2. Shreds through everything incredibly fast!

 

[dioogio]

How do you configure your triggers/firegroups?
I have shield cells on secondary group 1, all four guns on primary group 1. And Kill scanner on primary group 2.
I currently have 4 gimballed bursts but will try 2 fixed below - probably better having them on separate triggers then I assume?
Bit concerned about taking the shield cells off primary as I normally need this urgently.

I tried switching to 2 beams and 2 multi-cannons. But with all on same trigger and kept target at top when hitting shields and at bottom when aiming at hull. Didnt get on with that.
Tried all 4 beams, but I found it took me a lot longer to dispatch cobras/vipers that with cheap 8k bursts.
Also found the beams wandered off target a hell of a lot, something the bursts only did if altered thrust direction, and then not always
Are the pulses better than the burst?
I use a CH setup with no pedals so don't use yaw at all. Not sure if I will have the accuracy for fixed but will give it a go.
One more thing, for turn rate in the viper I use FA off a hell of a lot and use the forward reverse thrusters rather than the throttle and I don't use the sweet spot at all. Any body else do this?