Piracy not encouraged but in the game?
- Thread starter Cidcaldensfey
- Start date
No, actually. They'll also screw the game for those of us that enjoy open play, enjoy being attacked occasionally by genuine player pirates, and who don't feel the desire to attack everything in sight. I dislike the potential fragmentation that private groups are causing.
Oh dear. How sad.
You DO know the difference between real life and a game?
For some a game is about conflict and achievements.
For some a game is a way to prove themselves
For some a game is about the constant feel of danger and excitment
For some a game is just about cooperation, fun and immersion.
Can you point me to a Space-Sim that features cooperatrion, fun and immersion?
As far as I see it ED is just that. FD wanted to make a game that is NOT about competition
Well said.
This game needs interaction of all sorts. Ranging from pleasantries to broadsides.
The mechanics for well performed piracy are simply not in the game yet and that is blurring the line between well thought out gameplay and plain murder.
I can see why the Mobious group is so popular but prefer to stick in open, just on the off chance of some encounters, not that I've seen many players at all since the start of gamma.
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+1 to that. Have some virtual rep as I'm agreeing with you too much.
decided to make it 12 because people just kept landing in my sights on my way home.
I've heard this argument from pirates before. They say "why don't they talk, why don't they drop some cargo, they don't have to die!" But they're not thinking about it from the trader's point of view. The traders behavior is absolutely logical. The problem for a trader who has just been interdicted is that they have to make a decision as quickly as possible and they have very little information about the interdictor with which to make it. The interdictor could be a honorable pirate who will let them live for a few tons of cargo, or a dishonorable pirate who will kill them anyway, or just a murderer. How can the trader tell? Since two of those possibilities will try to kill them anyway their best chance is to immediately run or fight (if equipped to do so). Until there is a mechanism in game to evaluate how likely an interdictor is to kill running will be the norm. That's the mechanic that's missing.
As for piracy being frowned upon, well that's unsurprising. Piracy is largely fun at someone else's expense. Some people will enjoy being pirated, at least the first few times, but for most people the thrill of the experience is vastly outweighed by the potentially huge downside (and keep in mind that they can't submit because when that decision has to be made they don't know they are being pirated).
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If including group switching was a mistake, it was Frontier's to make (although I do not think that it was a mistake, more of a clever way of allowing players to be able to sample online play without losing any investment of time made to it if / when they revert to solo or private groups). Allowing choice as to which mode to play in on a session by session basis does encourage player interaction - those players who would normally play solo (in a scenario where group switching was disabled) can choose to play in open when they want to - forcing a one time choice as to which mode a commander has access to would probably reduce the open player-base.
While you prefer PvP, not all players do - to deny them the freedom of choice (per session) with regard to which mode they play in would be favouring one play-style over another - and that is something that Frontier seem unlikely to do.
Player interaction IS encouraged, although far from well implemented imo. We have to get away from the premise that the only or most prevalent form of player interaction is or should be PvP.
The often used reply "if you don't like PvP, play solo" is therfor patronizing and arrogant, because it assumes that open play is solely/mainly present for PvP purposes.
It is not, and FD have stated as such.
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You make a gravely mistaken assumption there. This is a game, a thing we do for fun in our finite amount of leisure time on Earth. Just because someone prefers to spend it without the threat of being pushed around by bullies or having significant progress wiped out for the amusement of someone else; does not mean they "cannot handle setbacks". It means that they prefer not to have setbacks imposed upon them for the amusement of someone else.
Every single bully in history, when called out by someone they cannot intimidate, puts on the hurt expression and claims "I was just having a laugh". Failure to empathise with other sentient beings is true mental weakness. I speak as someone who has been bullied, bullied others then grew up.
It all comes down to consent. Whatever consenting adults do for fun in any context is fine by me just so long as it does not hurt non-consenting people. If you struggle to find enough people who want to play PVP Pirates with you it is your problem to deal with. Somehow forcing unwilling participants to join you would be as bad as FD removing all PVP damage altogether and forcing everyone into a "carebear" world.
The onus is upon you, if your group is too small, to recruit people to join your way of playing. Expose the benefits, demonstrate different types of pleasure that can be experienced by doing it in your preferred fashion. Some of the comments in this thread make me more determined than ever to have no part of open play. Others have made me question the decision, so I hope the thread does not get closed.
To me, PVP piracy does not look a fun experience from either side. This is due to the poor game mechanics at present and the significant consequences for death in the game. Maybe once wings are implemented I could see myself flying a disposable Eagle or something (or manning turrets or a small docked fighter in someone else's big ship). That would be fun with competitive as well as cooperative elements and small risk to me. I will keep an open mind to it as the game develops, but as it stands I choose not to participate in order to get maximum (subjective) fun from the game.
I think you and a lot of other people take internet space ships too seriously. You make it sound like people are having sex on ELITE.
As a pirate you do not want to go around killing people. If this happens, you have usually failed. You're after their cargo, not their ship.
Killing is a last resort if somebody is steadfastly refusing to drop their cargo, which you've scanned, and know is there. I pirate players a lot and I've only a few kills: two from people who would't drop their cargo no matter what, and one accidental ram.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If that is the first thing that consenting adults do that pops into your head.... The thing is, it turns into something very ugly when one party does not consent - so, while that's not a good analogy (too extreme) it does go some way to describe the difference between players who are prepared to consent to interact and those who have interactions forced upon them.
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Too seriously?!?! TOOO SERIOUSLY?!?!?!
Sir I must remind you..... Internet Space Ships is ALWAYS Serious business.
Signed,
an Ex-Eve-Online player.
Wow, this thread has turned into a winning one.... Anyway, for those who keep throwing around, "Don't force me to play the way you want me to", go play solo mode, that's what it's for. If you don't want a player coming in and blowing your ship up, stealing your stuff or just causing you lots of cred in repairs, don't play online. Plain and simple.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Players have no option at all but to play online.
Playing in a private group would be much more sociable than solo for those who don't want randoms to blow them up.
I am not a pirate, I mostly trade and bounty hunt. That said when I bounty hunt it's about the credits not my opponent being a NPC or a CMDR. I am unbiased in this regard (IMO there should be no way to tell the difference). If the price on your head is high enough, I'm having your head if I can take it. Simple.
The only conclusions I can make from this thread are as follows.
1. Open play should be the only way to play
2. Some of you need to re-watch the Lion King... its the circle of life dudes: live - die, hunt - be hunted. Simple as that.
3. The anti PvP group seem to be the ones spoiling the game for others and not the pirates.
All I see is a portion of the player base throwing their toys out of the pram if a player kills them and then running off to group or solo play and crying on the forums. Whhaaaaa, Whhaaaa, someone blew up my 8 Million CR ship, Whaaaaaaaa!!! That's the game, it happens, there is meant to be risk and not just the risk of the AI managing to get you off guard. Funny how I have never read a single complaint about the AI pirates killing a player (hence why I think you should not be able to tell the difference)...
It's hardly a cut throat universe if every commander is flying around blowing kisses at each other and crying every time the unexpected creeps up on them and they loose credits.....
Perhaps another solution would be for the anti-PvP groups would be to go all Battlestar Galactica and form a fleet and migrate far, far away. If your group ever gets found and PvP pirate attacks happen there should be enough of you to gang up and put end to it in no time.
4 billion systems, there should be ample room for all types of play styles without people needing to resort to solo or group play in order to avoid PvP.
The only conclusions I can make from this thread are as follows.
1. Open play should be the only way to play
2. Some of you need to re-watch the Lion King... its the circle of life dudes: live - die, hunt - be hunted. Simple as that.
3. The anti PvP group seem to be the ones spoiling the game for others and not the pirates.
All I see is a portion of the player base throwing their toys out of the pram if a player kills them and then running off to group or solo play and crying on the forums. Whhaaaaa, Whhaaaa, someone blew up my 8 Million CR ship, Whaaaaaaaa!!! That's the game, it happens, there is meant to be risk and not just the risk of the AI managing to get you off guard. Funny how I have never read a single complaint about the AI pirates killing a player (hence why I think you should not be able to tell the difference)...
It's hardly a cut throat universe if every commander is flying around blowing kisses at each other and crying every time the unexpected creeps up on them and they loose credits.....
Perhaps another solution would be for the anti-PvP groups would be to go all Battlestar Galactica and form a fleet and migrate far, far away. If your group ever gets found and PvP pirate attacks happen there should be enough of you to gang up and put end to it in no time.
4 billion systems, there should be ample room for all types of play styles without people needing to resort to solo or group play in order to avoid PvP.
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I think that open play should be most people's default. Piracy is a fact of life in ED and it makes the game feel dangerous, despite the odds being pretty low that you will be interdicted if you are clean.
I can understand new players wanting to play in solo (I did). I can understand going into solo to save having to wait to dock. I can even understand just wanting to go solo to trade-grind to get your next objective.
But for the everyday experience of the game, running the risk of interdiction is why I have insurance on my ship - and I do not intend do down without a fight!
I can understand new players wanting to play in solo (I did). I can understand going into solo to save having to wait to dock. I can even understand just wanting to go solo to trade-grind to get your next objective.
But for the everyday experience of the game, running the risk of interdiction is why I have insurance on my ship - and I do not intend do down without a fight!
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