Dropping cargo will lead to more roleplaying negotiation rather then the jihad kamikaze attitude. This will also make escorts more viable option hence more content.
Piracy not encouraged but in the game?
- Thread starter Cidcaldensfey
- Start date
Dropping cargo will lead to more roleplaying negotiation rather then the jihad kamikaze attitude. This will also make escorts more viable option hence more content.
There's always going to be need to maintain balance in these sandbox games, and ideally it is found in ways that do not detract from player freedom. Killing fines needed to be higher, and they were increased, but all they really do is deter pirates from destroying uncooperative players as there's no other means to stop a ship. If you're careful, you can blow their thrusters without destroying the ship, but the victim is left stranded and still needs to self-destruct to get home. With temporary ship neutralization, Pirates would have a second option to seek and destroy.
I haven't had my hand in Pirating yet, though my character's development is moving toward Privateer the more I play. I'm loving the political influence conflicts that are popping up, and what better way to get rich than by robbing from your enemies?!
I have only heard of the low success rates of forcing cargo, but I agree that it really needs to be more effective to provide piracy viability. What are the success rates on an "A" rated Limpet controller these days?
I think piracy is in an alright place at the moment. Interdicting somebody doesn't mean you automatically get their cargo, but not should it. You can get a pretty big score rate though. I find that, of people with cargo, I get 50+% to drop it for me (often on the 2nd or 3rd interdiction though). The problem is, a large amount of people don't have cargo (maybe 25%?). I guess this is because bounty farming is currently more profitable than trading, at least in the early game (might not be true after server patch).
We really need a better way of handling groups. There needs to be a mechanism whereby a group can interdict and many vs one a ship. There needs to be a mechanism whereby many ships can travel together.
Yes. It's a bit fiddly though. When somebody drops out of SC they leave a wake. You can target that, and if going <1Mm/s and closer than 1 Mm you can drop out and join the engagement. The problem is that the best strategy to escape as a victim is often to submit to interdiction and run away. There really isn't much time for an escort to move in and help, as it'll take at least 20 seconds to drop on the wake.
We really need a better way of handling groups. There needs to be a mechanism whereby a group can interdict and many vs one a ship. There needs to be a mechanism whereby many ships can travel together.
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This is why I'm a bounty hunter. I want to be the hunter not the hunted. Sometimes I lose. Occupational hazard 
you failed to mention 90% of players who play in open play are confident and will likely kill him instead of him killing them
the pirate becomes the prey!
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I don't necessarily agree here. I think that some players would be more open to voluntarily dropping cargo if they knew the pirate would be able to get some off their scrap heap. And I think some pirates would take that cargo, and then chase the victim to blow them up for more. Running is so simple though, escorts are a waste of money.
If pirates had a way of holding targets within the instance long enough to use the other tools FD have given us, then it becomes a matter of landing that EMP before the ship can run away. Escorts would be extremely viable to protect a disabled ship in this case.
This is exactly my feeling. THERE ARE NPC PIRATES! EVEN IN SOLO!
Now supposedly, the Elite 'verse is this ongoing dynamic. SO even if there were ZERO players, there would STILL be piracy. NPC pirates would prey on the NPC traders. In SOLO there are still NPC pirates who will interdict you!
Some NPC interdictions I've experienced don't even scan! "OMG, that's so griefing/ganking/pvp"!
I thought the reason people play people is for the challenge. Yes I know Big Blue beat Kasparov, but honestly, since when has an AI been as downright sneaky or innovative as human players???
You can't avoid piracy attempts by going solo. And intervention is a joke due to easy evasion. Most trader posts are about how much they can carry because they don't bother with shields or weapons...
Sounds like the pirates need some catchup or something. ALSO Sounds like the traders need a challenge. C'mon, you have to admit, you came to play a game because you wanted risk/adventure! Which means you need a chance/probability of loss!
Otherwise, as I keep saying in my Star Trek metaphors, you might as well just press a button labelled "GET RICH!!!" to "make it so!"
The balance comes in making the risk bigger for the bigger gain. But if you don't ever lose where is the risk?
It's up to Frontier Development to decide if they are making Elite Dangerous or Elite Nanny, but all you traders asking for less piracy are really weighing in on the Elite Nanny side.
FYI Whilst I read about lots of traders scrapping weapons and eschewing power management for shield cells so they can trade more, I don't read so much about PVP piracy or ganking (where a player legitimately kills another player without cheating or anything other than either a bigger ship or more skill). Don't forget, there's a L O T of populated space out there that doesn't have human players! Obviously humans players are drawn to the central stars of the Empire/Federation and there should be more opportunities for trade profit AND risk. So if you don't fancy the risk either play solo (still NPC pirates out there- which I personally believe should be ramped up to mirror human skill level distributions) or go to the M A N Y places without players!
I don't think piracy is broken, It clearly works and is pretty fleshed out as it stands. It certainly isn't a shell of what could be, like some professions (hello mining and smuggling).
I played as a pirate since beta 1 and right now, it's better than it's ever been imo. The hatch breaker could use another speed buff, I'd like tools/weapons for disabling subsystems without killing and we could use some form of in game preset comms but overall piracy isn't bad as it stands now.
I'm still a little po'd about the forced bounty payment change but that's a different can of worms.
I played as a pirate since beta 1 and right now, it's better than it's ever been imo. The hatch breaker could use another speed buff, I'd like tools/weapons for disabling subsystems without killing and we could use some form of in game preset comms but overall piracy isn't bad as it stands now.
I'm still a little po'd about the forced bounty payment change but that's a different can of worms.
NPC comes in guns blazing: He's a pirate, that's how they are coded to behave. Either fight him off or buy him off, your choice. (NPCs don't doublecross and try to boil you after you drop cans)
PC comes in demanding cargo over com: Pirate. Can be negotiated with. He'd rather get some cargo without a fight and I'd rather not have a repair bill. Provided he doesn't get greedy or try to doublecross me we both go away happy.
PC comes in guns blazing: Not a pirate, just somebody looking for some pvp action. Nothing wrong with that, but if I'm configured for trading the chances are I'll spam him a few seeker missiles to keep him occupied then leave. Probably won't be either a "fun fight" pr an "easy kill" for him, and those are pretty much the only reasons to initiate pvp against a clean cmdr. If I'm configured for a slightly more aggressive role, however, by opening fire he just got a bounty on him, so let's dance
PC comes in demanding cargo over com: Pirate. Can be negotiated with. He'd rather get some cargo without a fight and I'd rather not have a repair bill. Provided he doesn't get greedy or try to doublecross me we both go away happy.
PC comes in guns blazing: Not a pirate, just somebody looking for some pvp action. Nothing wrong with that, but if I'm configured for trading the chances are I'll spam him a few seeker missiles to keep him occupied then leave. Probably won't be either a "fun fight" pr an "easy kill" for him, and those are pretty much the only reasons to initiate pvp against a clean cmdr. If I'm configured for a slightly more aggressive role, however, by opening fire he just got a bounty on him, so let's dance
This is one thing I mean. You're not griefing players but other people feel it is griefing. Griefing is when I go out of my way sooo much that I render you absolutely incapable of being able to play the game, usually people I'm using some kind of mechanic to exploit. PvP though, when it happens, is just that...PvP happens. Get over it!
This game should have pvp and pve options under start. I want to play with other people, just not you.
If someone comes along and smacks your ship in the face while you're carrying something, mining, or have a bounty, its fair game.
If they repeatedly smack you in the face or ram you into a station for no good reason, then it might not be such good sport.
I seriously hope people dont want Elite Dangerous to become Hello Kitty online.
If they repeatedly smack you in the face or ram you into a station for no good reason, then it might not be such good sport.
I seriously hope people dont want Elite Dangerous to become Hello Kitty online.
Your definition of 'griefing' is more a case of what you want it to be. It is not up to you to define it, does the mugger get to define what is mugging? No, it is up to the victim to define it. Just as each individual gets to define what is offensive to them, the victim, so each victim gets to define whether she/he has been griefed. Griefing is whatever it is that the griefer does to ruin that victim's enjoyment of the game. Just as the griefer does not get to decide what griefing is, so the PvPer does not get to decide what is 'fun' for his target. Quite often the retort from the PvPer will be... *petulant child voice*... "Well, go an' play in solo or group then!" But in ED it works the other way too. The victim of forced PvP can now retort "If you want PvP go and play in group!" Because, you see, groups can be formed for any activity and there are such groups where players who do want PvP get together to play the game they want.
Here is the first page of a google search that says otherwise: https://www.google.co.uk/#q=define+griefing
Hahaha, very funny, but I don't believe you and you're wrong. This is the most, according to urban dictionary, accepted definition of griefing:
griefing
1. Purposefully shooting or otherwise sabotaging your teammates in an online game.
2. In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual or individuals over and over again, or camping their corpse to prevent them from retrieving it, or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game.
3. In online gaming, someone who takes pleasure in creating grief for an opponent via various "cheap" tactics.
I wish Jork would stop friggen griefing my guild mates everytime we log in and play.
The key point is repetition. One person, repeatedly, killing the same person or persons more than one time and absolutely disabling them from being able to enjoy the game. However, I've never met the same person more than once in ELITE. Not only this but there are so many options and choices you can make to avoid being griefed. What you are proposing or even implying is that griefing is very much possible, when infact the only you could, by definition, truly grief is by using some form of exploit in a singular instance (ie: hulkageddon ).
Seriously, if you're going to argue about something at least be right about what you're going to argue about. I have a lot of experience in griefing, more than you ever will have in your lifetime, so don't even try to argue with me about this. Actually, I'll just post some examples what REAL griefing is:
Anarchy Online
Trained entire Temple of the Three Winds instance to entrence, anyone who entered the temple was instantly killed by all the mobs which got trained. Nobody could use it to farm anymore for an hour or so.
Trained mobs around a party outside of one of the cities while in a yalmaha, pulled train to people and watched them as I lost aggro from monsters and they instead went after the random party.
Unreal Tournament (Alien Swarm)
Changed my name ingame to other players in the game, TKd them repeatedly and kept changing to avoid ban
World of Warcraft
Corpse camped level 10s-20s in Red Ridge as a rogue, corpse camped 20's-30's in Duskwood as a rogue. Ganked, ganked, ganked for hours. Sometimes, I wouldn't kill them, I would just repeatedly sap. Gank people in cap cities.
Just a small section of stuff I did which is REAL griefing. Getting interdicted and getting your ship popped by some random is not griefing. Thats called PvP. And guess what? PvP happens on games with PvP. Don't play if you don't want to get killed by other players. It's that simple. Or even just go play some other game like Elite, like X3 or whatever. You can play by yourself and never have to worry about getting involved in PvP. The main thing is that you and anyone else complaining about it are basically saying it's perfectly okay to happen to you whenever you choose to play open. You are consenting to getting involved in it. The only way that you might be able to get it through that head of yours, and everyone elses, is if FD slapped a disclaimer telling you 'OH HEY, YOU CAN BE KILLED BY OTHER PLAYERS. PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK' when you do it. Then you would lose this argument for good.
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Is it really so hard to understand that enforcing PvP on players who don't want it prevent them from enjoying the game?
Care-bears have an option to go solo/group if they don't desire player interaction (which also includes pvp piracy).
When wings are added they can hire some backup and protect themselves from player piracy attempts in open play.
Otherwise, I don't really see the point in promoting this Elite: Care-bear galaxy concept.
Also, currently there is no challenge for us combat oriented players. NPCs are too dumb to pose any sort of treat so we pretty much have to resort to pvp encounters (be it piracy or just faction knighting).
When wings are added they can hire some backup and protect themselves from player piracy attempts in open play.
Otherwise, I don't really see the point in promoting this Elite: Care-bear galaxy concept.
Also, currently there is no challenge for us combat oriented players. NPCs are too dumb to pose any sort of treat so we pretty much have to resort to pvp encounters (be it piracy or just faction knighting).
Ah but pirating Haulers from real players possess a big threat huh? I've been through many of these threads as they come up every week with the exact same arguments. These usually lead to "I don't want NPC victims, I want real people as victims" in the end. I've yet to see any argument that convince the victims to accept their role in PvP - in their eyes there is none.