The difficulty level of this game

You can build things in a sandbox game. It's not even sandbox.
In other sandboxes, you build vehicles, houses what not, here you build your own name and story.

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I agree that a clearer distinction needs to be made between high security, affluent systems and low security poor systems. Of course trading from the former to the latter gets you the most profit --for more risk. However not much can be done about the flight model. Players can buy a docking computer, uprated shields and gimballed guns, which I think already gives plenty of concession to limited skill. The game also already allows for frantic dogfighting or easy space trucking --some people just moan that it doesn't make enough money because they don't have the patience to work at progression. A manual would be useful, but after that players need to be prepared to learn and put in some effort.
I, as a new Elite player, have found the flight system just perfect, there's pretty much nothing that you could add to make it easier to fly, besides the gimballed weapons and docking computers. It's everything outside the cockpit that could use a tweak to one way and another.
 
The freedom of choice without a storyline or guiding hand is a sandboxy gameplay. There is market for this kind of games, just look at all the early access sandbox like games on steam. And there is an emerging market for hard games, because lots of gamers just dont want that success for free-gameplay without a chance of failure any more. Even a lot of young gamers are looking for a challenge.

But ED is not advertised this way. Being a salesman myself i see this as a clear marketing problem.
 
The difficulty in the game is fine, one of the main problems is the Ship progression is not inches but massive leaps.
I mean the difference between a Sidewinder > Eagle > Adder > Viper Mk II > Cobra Mk III is reasonable, but then past that the majority of ships in the Mid-Range are Transporters (not designed for Combat) with the ASP being the ONLY real choice but sporting a fairly hefty price tag.

This doesn't bother me as such in that the ASP is 6.6mil, while the Cobra Mk III is only 390k meaning that you have a massive slog just to get to the point where you're starting to be relatively combat capable; especially when you have the choice of either investing more heavily in upgrading the Cobra to be viable or going the pure trade route for the highest return (well outside of high-piracy systems) ... this isn't exactly helped by the fact that Upgrades are eclectically provided at best.

Sure this was great in Frontier where you were the only player, so generally you stuck to the High-Value Trade / Mission areas until you got the Ship you wanted; but with the market being a bit more twitchy here due to external influence, well really the options available need to be focused around the types of ship that Economy suits against the Tech Level (something curiously absent)

This is made even worse by frankly a terrible Outfitting Menu, as well as some "Upgrades" actually far from being an actual upgrade; at least when you check against the 'Quick Info', and there isn't exactly an extensive description or 'Show Full Info' option.
Honestly the Outfitter should be a Tiered Menu, where you select the Type (in open slots) >> Class >> Grade, just to clean it up and see what IS actually available rather than endless scrolling.

There should be an option to get 'Trade' and 'Outfit' Data, so you can see and/or order parts (that could have a cool/down delivery timer) for fitting the ship better.

I'd also say the Automatic Turrets, honestly are OP as balls right now; especially on the larger ships. These were 'Manually' aimed in Frontier and First Encounters, as the larger ships were about as manoeuvrable as an iceberg; although for some reason the Python is capable of easily out-manoeuvring most ships... again that's a serious balance issue, favouring money thrown at a problem.

Something else is in the previous games, we were able to fit 'Above' what was intended for a given ship; it took up more Power and Cargo Space, sure but I don't see why we can't do the same here.

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None of this is specifically a complaint about the difficulty (although seriously most NPCs actually seem to be designed to fight those who have Flight Sticks so get a complete range of analogue movement over Controller or Mouse & Keyboard; where-as the 'Elite Rating' should really feed into how well your opponent can "fly" their ship; not saying make it easy, just in High-Security systems it makes more sense to have lower rating pilots that can be used to better learn the flight controls instead of currently where Dangerous+ NPCs show up everywhere and frankly are capable of flying amazingly well ... again usually with turreted weapons, which if the Devs had notice by replaying the Combat Tutorials there is no longer any 'Blind Spot' on most of the high-end ships because of those weapons)

This is more a complaint that the progression curve available is almost non existent because of the very small selection of ships and is deliberately obfuscated with needlessly basic menus that could easily have some better User Interface design ideology used.
 
If they just added more multi-ship encounters the difficulty would go up quite a bit ... killing elite 'condas is like shooting fish in a barrel compared to fighting 3 authority vipers.
 
My main problem with ED at the moment is that barely a week after launch the NPCs basically have stopped being a challenge for me. And I consider myself a 'relaxed' player who really hasn't put in gazillion of hours.

Elite: Mostly Harmless.

My thoughts exactly, been constantly fighting the 'high' ranks going from Competant to Elite and they all feel the same. They all do the same predictable maneuvers and are no challenge what so ever which for me is a huge problem if that's all the game has to offer in terms of combat. The tutorial AI however seems vastly superior so i'm guessing they toned down the live game client AI at some point? I want to get my butt handed to me for a change!
 
If they just added more multi-ship encounters the difficulty would go up quite a bit ... killing elite 'condas is like shooting fish in a barrel compared to fighting 3 authority vipers.

Agreed the sooner multi ship engagements come the better. Taking on an anaconda with multiple fighter support would be a truly epic experience.
 
Complicated solutions guys, I mean - Woah.

My suggestion:

Group Content
Handcraft difficult missions with nice rewards for 2, 3, 4, 5 - up to however many players the game would be stable at.
Multiple ship encounters, Anacondas with fighter escorts - hell, I think the game as-is would actually reward teamwork and focus firing certain enemies.
FD said they wanted to encourage COOP play, and by doing this they could also appease the hardcore crowd as well. Two birds with one stone.

Keep solo play easy for the new players (As all MMO's have done (Not going to argue if this is an MMO or not, it has MMO-like progression))
 
There are lots of people thinking combat in ED is too easy at the moment (I'm one of them). There are lots of people thinking ED is too difficult to in the early game, which it probably is if you are not used to space games.

Regarding difficulty, there are two things this game needs:
1) It should offer a challenge to more experienced players with more powerfull ships.
2) It should be fun. Players should be able to explore and enjoy the game without getting mercilessly killed, griefed or suiciding every ten minutes.

Surely what we need is for systems to have a range of danger levels? My suggestions are
- Jumping into an Anarchic system should be scary, not a playground for the well-heeled bounty hunter to go through wanted Anacondas and Pythons like a hot knife through butter.
- Well established systems should be kept relatively safe.
- However, some established systems should have conflict zones, militarised areas etc that offer a range of difficulty levels to suit all players.
- Unxeplored systems should be potentially dangerous. You could meet an AI Sidewinder in one encounter and a maybe an Anaconda supported by a wing of Vipers the next. However, a properly equipped exploration ship (even a cheap one) should, WITH SKILL, be able to escape from a tough encounter.
- There are plenty of players now with well equipped top-tier ships. We need to have some AI that offer a challenge. The 150k cr kill missions are no challenge if you have a well equipped Viper. Let's have some 15mil cr kill missions where you go up against a fleet of dropships, or an Anaconda with support craft.

I LOVE this game. FD - what you've achieved is amazing. But, it really needs to offer a challenge to Commanders of all abilities, experience and exuipment levels.



No thank you I don't want Eve Online v2.
 
There are lots of people thinking combat in ED is too easy at the moment (I'm one of them). There are lots of people thinking ED is too difficult to in the early game, which it probably is if you are not used to space games.

Regarding difficulty, there are two things this game needs:
1) It should offer a challenge to more experienced players with more powerfull ships.
2) It should be fun. Players should be able to explore and enjoy the game without getting mercilessly killed, griefed or suiciding every ten minutes.

Surely what we need is for systems to have a range of danger levels? My suggestions are
- Jumping into an Anarchic system should be scary, not a playground for the well-heeled bounty hunter to go through wanted Anacondas and Pythons like a hot knife through butter.
- Well established systems should be kept relatively safe.
- However, some established systems should have conflict zones, militarised areas etc that offer a range of difficulty levels to suit all players.
- Unxeplored systems should be potentially dangerous. You could meet an AI Sidewinder in one encounter and a maybe an Anaconda supported by a wing of Vipers the next. However, a properly equipped exploration ship (even a cheap one) should, WITH SKILL, be able to escape from a tough encounter.
- There are plenty of players now with well equipped top-tier ships. We need to have some AI that offer a challenge. The 150k cr kill missions are no challenge if you have a well equipped Viper. Let's have some 15mil cr kill missions where you go up against a fleet of dropships, or an Anaconda with support craft.

I LOVE this game. FD - what you've achieved is amazing. But, it really needs to offer a challenge to Commanders of all abilities, experience and exuipment levels.

I agree although don't assume fun = easy. I have never found easy to be fun in gaming. Obviously some do as they like to feel like a boss no matter what their actual skill level!
 
No offense but Eve Online V2 with the flight mechanics of this game would be the ideal scenario and what half of it is already.

I do not want to ever see boundaries in Elite like there is in Eve Online. I don't want to see high sec, low sec and null sec borders in this game. Which is basically what the OP is saying that should be in the game.

The reason is it gives players a sense of a barrier and a psychological fear of crossing that boundary. At the current time in Elite there are no such things and so people will move and jump about without any major issues or problems which is what Elite is supposed to be. The game is not built up as a combat simulator like Eve Online is, there are no real trading in commodities in Eve Online like there is in Elite. If you shut areas of space off to huge amounts of players it is only going to harm the background simulation even more and shut out a vast majority of players who just want to explore and trade.
 
I think that Frontier should ignore all the "It's too hard" whining and stick to its vision. And it should print a disclaimer on the box:
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"This ride is not for the weak".
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There. Everybody knows where they stand.

A lot of people aren't aware of the developers vision though. Where the game is largely Coop with fairly rare encounters with other players. Where pirates killing clean players ships doesn't register as a kill and puts a large bounty on their head removing the incentive to attack players unless they invite it through various means. Anarchy systems, conflict zones, shooting first and/or attracting a bounty they don't want to clear.

I suspect more difficult opponents will come as your ranks go up. After all, the more experienced you are the more valuable your cargo or bounty is likely to be and lets face it, experienced NPC's arent going to be looking for small change either.
 
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If you shut areas of space off to huge amounts of players it is only going to harm the background simulation even more and shut out a vast majority of players who just want to explore and trade.
We already have anarchy systems, are those shut off from huge amounts of players?
No.
Would making some systems more friendly and more less friendly shut those off from huge amounts of players?
No.
Does this game need a limit on how bad the situation in a system can get?
No.

As the galaxy evolves depending on what we do, it would be the best thing since sliced bread to bring multiple levels to the systems, instead of just "Anarchy - Not anarchy"
 
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I do not want to ever see boundaries in Elite like there is in Eve Online. I don't want to see high sec, low sec and null sec borders in this game. Which is basically what the OP is saying that should be in the game.

The reason is it gives players a sense of a barrier and a psychological fear of crossing that boundary. At the current time in Elite there are no such things and so people will move and jump about without any major issues or problems which is what Elite is supposed to be. The game is not built up as a combat simulator like Eve Online is, there are no real trading in commodities in Eve Online like there is in Elite. If you shut areas of space off to huge amounts of players it is only going to harm the background simulation even more and shut out a vast majority of players who just want to explore and trade.

That psychological fear is built into the core theme of Elite. The first message on the launcher from launch day reads
"Welcome to the cut throat, multiplayer galaxy"
That psychological fear, you're correct, shuts out some players (I won't say the majority, because I don't think Elite attracts the casual gamer to begin with)
That psychological fear DOES keep players in the game. Overcoming it is a accomplishment in game, as well as a personal accomplishment. I don't think anyone has ever forgotten the first time they ventured out into 0.0 space in EVE.

If there's no risk, there's minimal accomplishment. Without risk, this will become a relaxing space travel simulator; Which is fine for some, but for the longevity of this game that outlook is damaging.
 
The tutorials. They are there for a reason. Not to be done half only once. If you dont make it - do it again until you nail it. After that there is no need to add modules that do everything automatically for you or making the game easier.
 
Agreed the sooner multi ship engagements come the better. Taking on an anaconda with multiple fighter support would be a truly epic experience.

Maybe that will come with 'wings'

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Sound like to many people want an Eve clone.

you don't say me

They want to auto pilot point to point while they watch footie
 
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Sound like to many people want an Eve clone.
In what way do you mean this?
A game where you must take in notice the speed of your opponent, the turning speed of your turrets, the mass of your ship, the damage type what the enemy does, the damage type you should make your ship resist, the moment of using boosters and repairers, the most optimal setup for facing player enemies, which you have fought against before, the areas which are enemy controlled, the areas which aren't enemy controlled? Not to mention the political side...


What is there in EvE what people here dislike, besides the fact the user interface isn't that much engaging?
 
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"reading between the lines " I read , players that find the ai not challenging enough because their personal level does not represent their elite level yet.

Im sure as you progress the game will respond accordingly.
the ai will become more challenging.

don't forget becouse there was no wipe lots of players own ships that are far to powerful for their elite level.
 
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