A strange occurrence that lead to an exciting story;

[Allant Doran]

So I had something strange happen earlier, would like it confirmed as a bug or not as I'm not sure why it happened. I entered a USS and found 2 federation police vessels and a 'Wanted' Cobra. After engaging in combat with the Cobra, the police vessels immediately turned aggressive towards me. However I had not hit them in combat, nor did I have any kind of fine, bounty, wanted status or infringement in Federation space OR anywhere else. I'm a good boy.

Does anyone know what would have caused them to suddenly act this way? Is it a bug of some sort or am I missing something very subtle?


Now, with that out of the way, here's the exciting story it lead to, for those who care to read it;

Flying an Adder, I became unable to outrun the two navy vessels, so they chased me at about 230m/s at the edge of my scanner range. Slowly chipping away at my shields, I decided the only way to evade them was to just jump to Supercuise and wait out the very slow charge time,

However, as I could not gain sufficient distance between the pursuing vessels, the FSD charge time was massive and caused my ship to hit around 148% heat. I quickly cancelled the charge as I could not afford to be taking too much heat damage while being chased on such little shields.

Sadly, they broke through my shield and began chipping away at my hull health. Unable to evade them and unwilling to kill them, I tried a risky maneuver.

Using Flight Assist OFF, I flipped 180 and boosted straight at the pursuing ships. Passing by them both by mere meters and began charging my drive. The maneuver bought me some extra distance but the charge time was still very long.

With only two bars of charge remaining I received critical, but not fatal, damage to my hull. The canopy shattered, the atmosphere escaped my ship and I was left with 5 minutes of oxygen as I jumped to Supercruise. Luckily I found a nearby station to reset the timer. They offered no repair facilities, however I did mange to purchase an upgraded Life Support system, giving me 25 minutes to jump to a new system with repair facilities. The trip that followed was uneventful, if silent and tense.

An absolutely fantastic Elite experience and I loved every moment of it. I'm just unsure as to why it was able to happen in the first place.
Thanks for reading, guys and gals. Bit of a long one but I thought it was worth typing up

Fly safe!

 

[Ravenstar]

Curious... I wonder if you got in the cross fire and the act of hitting you triggered something in the AI that cause them to become aggressive. Nice flying though.

 

[Allant Doran]

Curious... I wonder if you got in the cross fire and the act of hitting you triggered something in the AI that cause them to become aggressive. Nice flying though.

Possibly. God knows I've been clipped by friendly munitions and straight-up rammed by Federal Anacondas before. It could be something to do with that.

 

[Blake_Dragon]

did you check their factions? any chance the cobra was in the same faction as the mall cops?

(maybe to cobra had doughnuts loaded and they got mad at you for interrupting their brake )

 

[Jackboot]

I think its possible that the cobra you originally destroyed was a member of the federation. I think destroying members of the federation can turn the system authority ships hostile, but generally this is only temporary (although it will likely cost a bit of rep) this occurs even with wanted ships at nav points and such, and may or may not be working as intended. Before I shoot any NPC I always check to see if they are part of an independant faction or one that is part of the major ones, and I don't attack ones that are allied to groups who are part of the major factions for this very reason, regardless of the bounty size.
I think the assumption that all wanted ships you attack will not hurt your rep with the major factions is a large part of peoples complaints that the reputation system is "broken" because they do not realize this.

Really great story though, smart of you to buy a life support upgrade at that station, I may not have thought to do that. I've been close to having my canopy break but so far its just been badly shattered, this reminds me to put some creds into upgrading my life support before I desperately need to after its gone

 

[Pokeitwithastic]

Its happened to me also. Killed the Pirate, then one Fed scans me and says free to go and the other takes a pop. Defo no accidental hits on them during the fight either as otherwise id have had a fine. Fortunately fast enough to outrun them.

 

[Allant Doran]

did you check their factions? any chance the cobra was in the same faction as the mall cops?

(maybe to cobra had doughnuts loaded and they got mad at you for interrupting their brake )

That's a good idea. I didn't check their faction. It never occurred to me that they could be in the same faction, but now you point it out it seems obvious to me. Still, should their faction standing overrule the rule of Federate law? Ooohh the morale quandaries! hehe

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Thanks for the posts, folks! If the answer lies within the faction relationship then that's something i'll certainly be checking in future. I think that's a really interesting, dynamic element. Far from broken but perhaps not evident enough currently? Either way, I like it

Really great story though, smart of you to buy a life support upgrade at that station, I may not have thought to do that. I've been close to having my canopy break but so far its just been badly shattered, this reminds me to put some creds into upgrading my life support before I desperately need to after its gone

For the record, the trip to the second station took me 7 and a half minutes. The basic life support would have failed 180 seconds before I managed to enter a hangar. Really makes you realise just how far out in space you can be, haha.

Life Support is one of those things I hadn't upgraded sooner as well. It's totally not relevant as a module until you need it and at that point it's the most important thing in the entire game, haha.

 

[Blake_Dragon]

i gotten in the habit of checking the factions, specially at nav points and uss if there are security crafts around. i think wanted should override that, but not entirely sure that works properly

Life Support is one of those things I hadn't upgraded sooner as well. It's totally not relevant as a module until you need it and at that point it's the most important thing in the entire game, haha.

love and air. not really all that important, until your not getting any

 

[David Ilveran]

Hi!

Very exciting story
Yes, what happened to you is definately related to the faction.
I had the same problem some times and it was unclear to me as well, TILL i managed to have a friendly reputation to a faction in my home system (the one ruling the system itself)
Now when i drop in the extraction sites to bounty hunt, i see the all the federal vessels in green, as they're friendly to me.

If happens that one of the WANTED ships are green too (while chased from the green npcs as well) and i open fire on them, suddendly all my friendly contacts become red and the federal ships take me down, with absolutely no fine, wanted status or whatsoever.

Pretty non sense if you ask me, but that's it!

 

[Allant Doran]

i gotten in the habit of checking the factions, specially at nav points and uss if there are security crafts around. i think wanted should override that, but not entirely sure that works properly

Ahh okay cool, i'll definitely be keeping an eye on it in future. Both in-game and in patch notes, just in case something gets changed or slightly modified

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Hi!

Very exciting story
Yes, what happened to you is definately related to the faction.
I had the same problem some times and it was unclear to me as well, TILL i managed to have a friendly reputation to a faction in my home system (the one ruling the system itself)
Now when i drop in the extraction sites to bounty hunt, i see the all the federal vessels in green, as they're friendly to me.

If happens that one of the WANTED ships are green too (while chased from the green npcs as well) and i open fire on them, suddendly all my friendly contacts become red and the federal ships take me down, with absolutely no fine, wanted status or whatsoever.

Pretty non sense if you ask me, but that's it!

Fantastic, thank you very much for the extra confirmation! This will improve my gameplay a lot I think

 

[N6MAA10816]

Great story! I had my canopy broken and lost the centre hud display.....
I swear I was actually holding my breath when I got through the letter box lol!
It's the little things in this 'game' that make the biggest impression.....

 

[th3_fr4gil3]

were they attacking the cobra? maybe it was a payoff to look the other way and you witnessed it.

 

[Quietman]

So I had something strange happen earlier, would like it confirmed as a bug or not as I'm not sure why it happened. I entered a USS and found 2 federation police vessels and a 'Wanted' Cobra. After engaging in combat with the Cobra, the police vessels immediately turned aggressive towards me. However I had not hit them in combat, nor did I have any kind of fine, bounty, wanted status or infringement in Federation space OR anywhere else. I'm a good boy.

Does anyone know what would have caused them to suddenly act this way? Is it a bug of some sort or am I missing something very subtle?

IMHO there are multiple catalysts layered upon one another in these bounty hunting scenarios including, wanted/non-wanted status, reputation with local authorities and the ability for NPC's to report crimes; these catalysts will eventually conspire to produce the bugged behaviour that you have observed.


The overriding issue here is that NPC's can report crimes against you, (when they shouldn't be able to), in the following scenarios:

- When they are wanted.

- When you are NOT wanted.

Assuming that this is what is happening and it is correct behaviour, (for non anarchistic systems), is it correct behaviour for authority vessels to arrive on the scene and to start attacking the player?

- I don't think it is correct behaviour.

- I don't think an authority vessel should ever attack a non wanted vessel, (including the player).

- If an authority vessel attacks a non wanted vessel, (including the player), then it should also become wanted, (this was the observed behaviour briefly during part of a phase of Beta).

- Escort vessels, (as part of a 3 vessel group), will act as authority vessels in this situation and attack the player as if the crime was reported to them as well; including escort vessels that were in the instance when the crime was reported and escort vessels that spawn into the instance after the crime was reported.

- The rules should be consistent and EXACTLY the same for both NPC's and players, currently they are not. i.e. if a player attacks any non wanted vessel, (in a non anarchistic system), they become wanted, NPC's, (authority system vessels and escort vessels), have opportunities to attack without suffering this consequence.

- All of these observed actions and reactions depend on your reputation with the local authority, (i.e. default neutral), if you are friendly or higher then some of these observations change.


This bug and it's associated behaviours has been reported and ticketed by many players, but because it's a complex situation and is easily confused, I don't think it has been reported well and/or understood well and hence has been lingering for many weeks.

For myself, as a bounty hunter, this is currently the biggest issue in the game.

 

[Allant Doran]

Great story! I had my canopy broken and lost the centre hud display.....
I swear I was actually holding my breath when I got through the letter box lol!
It's the little things in this 'game' that make the biggest impression.....

Exactly. I've often said that the thing that makes a game immersive isn't always the grand scale and number of NPCs but the amount of attention paid to the smallest details. Like how, if your canopy breaks and your HUD disappears, the HUD will still appear on the jagged edges of the canopy that still remain. Targeting reticules and things like that.

I also love how each ship has many different, but always unique, sounds for all kinds of different maneuvers. Everything from unique exits from supercruise to stationary yawing sounds. Even the cargo scoop, an otherwise-uninteresting module, has unique sonar pings and sounds.

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IMHO there are multiple catalysts layered upon one another in these bounty hunting scenarios including, wanted/non-wanted status, reputation with local authorities and the ability for NPC's to report crimes; these catalysts will eventually conspire to produce the bugged behaviour that you have observed.

...

...

...
For myself, as a bounty hunter, this is currently the biggest issue in the game.

Ahh I see. I thought it was just a faction issue but what you described is exactly the situation I was in. They were wanted, I was not and there was currently no fighting going on. They must have reported the crime against me, assuming it wasn't the faction relationship issue. Thank you for the heads up!

It's certainly something that pushed me towards more of an explorer for now. The issue I had when I first started was trying to figure out how trading worked, without realising there was a trading bug too. That one's been sorted though, as far as I know.

 

[Doctor_Demento]

I read the forums every day and I've seen a number of reports by players stating they had not hit the police and they were attacked. Several said they had not even fired and they showed no fines or bounties or negative faction rep WHILE the police were shooting them. So I would definetely say there is a bug. I don't think it explains every case but it does explain some of them. And nice story anyhow. Take care and fly safe.

 

[Allant Doran]

I read the forums every day and I've seen a number of reports by players stating they had not hit the police and they were attacked. Several said they had not even fired and they showed no fines or bounties or negative faction rep WHILE the police were shooting them. So I would definetely say there is a bug. I don't think it explains every case but it does explain some of them. And nice story anyhow. Take care and fly safe.

Haha, thanks! I'm certainly flying safer now that i've experienced a Canopy blowout. It's an unsettling situation that successfully carries a constant unsafe feeling, even if you escape the battle. You never know if you'll survive.

 

[Oethe]

IMHO there are multiple catalysts layered upon one another in these bounty hunting scenarios including, wanted/non-wanted status, reputation with local authorities and the ability for NPC's to report crimes; these catalysts will eventually conspire to produce the bugged behaviour that you have observed.


The overriding issue here is that NPC's can report crimes against you, (when they shouldn't be able to), in the following scenarios:

- When they are wanted.

- When you are NOT wanted.

Assuming that this is what is happening and it is correct behaviour, (for non anarchistic systems), is it correct behaviour for authority vessels to arrive on the scene and to start attacking the player?

- I don't think it is correct behaviour.

- I don't think an authority vessel should ever attack a non wanted vessel, (including the player).

- If an authority vessel attacks a non wanted vessel, (including the player), then it should also become wanted, (this was the observed behaviour briefly during part of a phase of Beta).

- Escort vessels, (as part of a 3 vessel group), will act as authority vessels in this situation and attack the player as if the crime was reported to them as well; including escort vessels that were in the instance when the crime was reported and escort vessels that spawn into the instance after the crime was reported.

- The rules should be consistent and EXACTLY the same for both NPC's and players, currently they are not. i.e. if a player attacks any non wanted vessel, (in a non anarchistic system), they become wanted, NPC's, (authority system vessels and escort vessels), have opportunities to attack without suffering this consequence.

- All of these observed actions and reactions depend on your reputation with the local authority, (i.e. default neutral), if you are friendly or higher then some of these observations change.


This bug and it's associated behaviours has been reported and ticketed by many players, but because it's a complex situation and is easily confused, I don't think it has been reported well and/or understood well and hence has been lingering for many weeks.

For myself, as a bounty hunter, this is currently the biggest issue in the game.

What bugs me even more is the fact that if they are not hostile and any ship, police included SHOOTS you (like how they will lemming into your fire) then they do not become wanted. Seriously. I can not return fire if they light me up by mistake/purposely unless they already have a wanted tag. However if I do it like them then its all hell bakes lose, public enemy number one.

 

[Doctor_Demento]

BTW I will give anyone who needs to clear fines or have bounties on them. DO IT AT A OUTPOST TYPE STATION. NOT ONE OF THE STATIONS YOU ENTER. They don't have police patrols and it is far, far easier to pay your fines/bounties off. Some of them will have to be done at a Outpost in the same system as some fine/bounty stuff is local. Thought that might help some of you. Good luck!!

 

[Allant Doran]

BTW I will give anyone who needs to clear fines or have bounties on them. DO IT AT A OUTPOST TYPE STATION. NOT ONE OF THE STATIONS YOU ENTER. They don't have police patrols and it is far, far easier to pay your fines/bounties off. Some of them will have to be done at a Outpost in the same system as some fine/bounty stuff is local. Thought that might help some of you. Good luck!!

Agreed. This is one of the most useful things to take into account when you get bounties and fines. Police only turn up at outposts in the same way they randomly patrol the entire system's locations. They also turn up if a crime takes place but that's already known.

You can even afford to wait for a docking spot if you get denied one initially as police are so rare there. Just keep an eye out for bounty-hunting players