My god!...Solo, group mode and open play can't be the same universe!!!

[Lanatir]

Ok. Let me try then. First of all this HAS been discussed to death, honestly, over months and months and... well you get the idea. There has not been a single opinion voiced in this thread that hasn't been voiced and answered many many times. Maybe hat is why you are getting the flippant one liners from the older playerbase, we've heard it all before. But ok, here goes.

Solo, Group and Open modes were part and parcel of the original design precisely to allow players to play as they want... alone, with friends or with everyone. All modes share and have an affect on the same universe but that affect is minimal as far as Solo and Group modes go and not much better in Open. The game is designed so that change happens slowly unless a really concerted effort is made by a huge amount of players. You have to remember that the NPCs in the game have influence too, a single npc is no different from a single player as far as the background simulation is concerned.

Now then, mode switching. Main concern number one seems to be that Joe Soap can stay in Solo mode and build up a huge amount of Cr, buy himself a tricked out uber-ship and then come back into Open and kick botty. Well, so what? A) it isn't going to affect YOUR game in the slightest and B) Joe Soap can do exactly the same thing in Open mode by going to a quiet set of systems where he won't meet any other players and start making Cr hand over fist. I know this for a fact because I am way over on the other side of the Empire in unexplored space making a killing mining and trading back to the Empire. Haven't seen a single player since I got here shortly before release.

Main concern number two. Joe Soap can avoid any player blockades etc by slipping into Solo. Yes, this is true but then player made blockades are mainly supposed to affect NPCs. Sure Joe Soap can try and run the blockade if he wants. But if he is playing his own game, doing his own thing and doesn't want to play the 'blockade runner' game the other kids are playing, he can do just that.

You see. It's all about choice and being able to play the game the way you want. A lot of other players are not used to this idea because the concept of what FD is doing is alien to them. To them all I can say is... Breath. ED is not a competitive game. What other players do outside your immediate personal game doesn't affect your game to any degree you will notice. Let go of all your preconceived notions of what ED 'should' be and get into what ED 'is'. Have fun out there Cmdrs.

Have your daily rep from me.

I really dont get it. Why is there so much discussion about this, and always coming from people with the same mindset: ''Those people in solo can do something to avoid me stopping them from proceeding ingame the way they want! Thats mean! I want to be able to hold their progress! I want to be able to blockade systems (so that others cant use it!).''
Which all translates to: ''I want my griefing mechanics, and solo prevents me from having them. And then you allow those evil solo players who dont want to be killed by me to even come to MY mode and fly the ships i couldnt prevent them from getting, causing me ship envy cause they are so much more expensive, since they were trading while i was busy trying to find ways to still stop them and complain about it on the Forum!''
First of all, it is none of anyones business how i play this game. In Solo, Group, or Open.
Second of all, if you separate open from solo and groups, open will be even more empty than now, because EVERYONE that wants to avoid being killed, harassed and griefed will PERMANENTLY stay in solo or group. The current system is your ONLY chance to at least now and then get the option to get your hands on people who otherwise wouldnt be in your reach. Dont you people understand that system BENEFITS you AND the game? If you separate gamemodes, you REALLY separate the communities. And it is NOT an incentive for us 'carebears' to come to open when that means we gotta stay there.

 

[daan2002]

This thread is still going eh... seems silly.

PvP in Open isnt going anywhere, deal with it. Solo mode isn't going anywhere, deal with it. Private groups aren't going anywhere, deal with it.

They pretty clearly say the intent is for the players to blaze their own trail and play their own way. Theyve given everyone the tools to do so. The end.

my thoughts also

 

[CMDR Sidewinder]

My main concern was the implementation of a no risk nonconsensual pvp multiplayer mode. ED has side stepped all of the associated problems very neatly with solo/group mode. Maybe they should implement a solo/group mode for the forum to help with the rest of the problems associated with a multiplayer game ?

 

[LtCasey]

From the store page, Elite is sold as an mmo

To easy.... It is a mmo, but not in the common way. You might think of it as " Multiple player Massivly shaping an Online universe"

 

[Captain Black]

My main concern was the implementation of a no risk nonconsensual pvp multiplayer mode. ED has side stepped all of the associated problems very neatly with solo/group mode. Maybe they should implement a solo/group mode for the forum to help with the rest of the problems associated with a multiplayer game ?

+1 to this idea.

 

[woodhouse]

This subject does keep popping up and that can be annoying.

But yesterday evening I played 3 hours in solo mode, including some time at Shinrarta, and I didn't see a single CMDR. Surely there are issues again with the server.

Could it be that this subject comes up again every time there is something wrong with the matchmaking and the people who like to grief (sorry, pirate) a bit get rightfully disappointed?

 

[Milky82]

This subject does keep popping up and that can be annoying.

But yesterday evening I played 3 hours in solo mode, including some time at Shinrarta, and I didn't see a single CMDR. Surely there are issues again with the server.

Could it be that this subject comes up again every time there is something wrong with the matchmaking and the people who like to grief (sorry, pirate) a bit get rightfully disappointed?

You mean open mode right ? 3 or 300 hours in Solo and you still wouldnt see a player.

 

[xxTheGoDxx]

Have your daily rep from me.

I really dont get it. Why is there so much discussion about this, and always coming from people with the same mindset: ''Those people in solo can do something to avoid me stopping them from proceeding ingame the way they want! Thats mean! I want to be able to hold their progress! I want to be able to blockade systems (so that others cant use it!).''

Why is everyone that criticizes this system - that isn't present in any other game known to man (including games with a strong focus on PvE like Diablo) - just a griefer? That is a really dumb rhetoric!

I for one don't want to stop people from progressing. But real people instead of ai mean tougher fights and slower progression. And if this can be avoided by the press of a button than you shouldn't be able to play with or against me with this progress. It is that simple. Have an even playing field for everybody. You wouldn't like it if there would be an easy mode in the menu that doubles your HP, would you? Not if it can be activated and deactivated at will!

Second of all, if you separate open from solo and groups, open will be even more empty than now, because EVERYONE that wants to avoid being killed, harassed and griefed will PERMANENTLY stay in solo or group. The current system is your ONLY chance to at least now and then get the option to get your hands on people who otherwise wouldnt be in your reach. Dont you people understand that system BENEFITS you AND the game? If you separate gamemodes, you REALLY separate the communities. And it is NOT an incentive for us 'carebears' to come to open when that means we gotta stay there.

I don't think that Open is empty (maybe that is an Europe vs US thing, don't know). But if people rather play Solo than that is their choice. To be honest, there should be a real offline mode to. It is dumb to force people to play with people if they don't want to.

And I am not a griefer! I rather enjoy the added danger other players bring with them. But that is just meaningless to me if there isn't an even playing field.

You probably missed it in the myriad of other threads on this, so here you go

Thank you, really missed that all.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Ok. Let me try then

Ok, thanks for trying instead of copy and pasting "the g word".

Solo, Group and Open modes were part and parcel of the original design precisely to allow players to play as they want... alone, with friends or with everyone. All modes share and have an affect on the same universe but that affect is minimal as far as Solo and Group modes go and not much better in Open. The game is designed so that change happens slowly unless a really concerted effort is made by a huge amount of players. You have to remember that the NPCs in the game have influence too, a single npc is no different from a single player as far as the background simulation is concerned.

That is completely fine with me, my problem is the switching.

A) it isn't going to affect YOUR game in the slightest

Ok, I know that sounds dumb, but it effects the feeling of value for my own accomplishments. If a player in my team in Battlefield uses a wall hack on the other side of the map it doesn't effect me directly but still borders me. I play for my own goals and I want it to mean something if I have 1 mil. Cr.

B) Joe Soap can do exactly the same thing in Open mode by going to a quiet set of systems where he won't meet any other players and start making Cr hand over fist. I know this for a fact because I am way over on the other side of the Empire in unexplored space making a killing mining and trading back to the Empire.

He can't do the same thing in Open! He can do other activities that progress his game but not the same as in the main systems. Hell, he could even be killed on his way home after a long exploration session for some dumb warrant by a player.

Main concern number two. Joe Soap can avoid any player blockades etc by slipping into Solo. Yes, this is true but then player made blockades are mainly supposed to affect NPCs. Sure Joe Soap can try and run the blockade if he wants. But if he is playing his own game, doing his own thing and doesn't want to play the 'blockade runner' game the other kids are playing, he can do just that.

As you said earlier, a single NPC is no different for the system, and it should be very well be the same for me as the player! More so even. It is extremely immersion breaking if the system treats other player special compared to NPC's. The new bounty system is another problem in this regard.

Let go of all your preconceived notions of what ED 'should' be and get into what ED 'is'. Have fun out there Cmdrs.

I will try to have fun Still think that system sucks balls.

 

[veelckoo]

I will try to have fun Still think that system sucks balls.

That is your opinion.
Some of us that played originals are not looking for MMO at all.
We were pretty upset when they removed 'real' offline single player.
Solo is for people like me that do not want to 'interact' and for people that don't want thier rep ruined by timed missions ond overcrowded stations - "docking permission has been denied" for 30 minutes anyone?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Why is everyone that criticizes this system - that isn't present in any other game known to man (including games with a strong focus on PvE like Diablo) - just a griefer? That is a really dumb rhetoric!


I will try to have fun Still think that system sucks balls.

And that is fine not liking a system. But you knew, or had the option to know this mechanism is in place before you purchased. To like it or not is your prerogative but to insist on changes even knowing it is vital for many people..... People who bought because that system is in there is what I think is selfish. (Not accusing you BTW)

BF4 is a vs competitive game and wall hacking would be a cheat NOT an advertised mechanic so is not a valid comparison.

Play all properly and it is easier than solo anyway. I play all on my own and its fine. Team up with a few mates however esp when wings work and you will have a HUGE advantage that solo lone wolfs can never have.

Not all games have mechanics we all like. It dose not make them bad mechanics (unless no one likes them but that is clearly not the case here)

Happy Xmas BTW. At least you can play. I am sans PC for a week

 

[MACMAN86]

+1 Solo mode is like a Training Sim. Open Play should NOT be connected for any cheating by switching to get around or evade failure!
It has only helped me to diagnose any lag issues by switching but it was purely down grading Anti-Aliasing for Nividia nre driver 2715x1527 res down-scaling to work with stutters nor crash.

 

[Evil]

I love the way it currently is, I can switch when I like, it's nice to know I can play alone or with people. I'm sorry that the OP and others feel this way, as long as you can't switch during combat, but I truly think this is better.

You should be thankful that some of us will play with you online from time to time, other than not at all, I can understand if you do not wish to play with us and for that you can switch to solo or group mode, you could always make a Open only group (then add everyone that will play open only to that group, then just play in that group), but I'm not sure of the maximum people that can be in a single group.

 

[Espege]

We have a choice now. It's simple and it's good.

Elite gives me the choice between:
1. Exploring the universe on my own (Solo)
2. Play with mature community (Private group)
3. Gank or be ganked by kids when I want (Open)

I don't see any exploits here since EVERYONE can switch modes as they choose. I hope current system will not be changed because it works fine as it is.

 

[Arindor]

I play open in a system ~15LY from Sol, trading, smuggling, and bounty hunting. The occasional human player can be seen doing their own thing but, for most of the time, it feels like solo mode. So either way, I have no problem with having different modes because I can't see the difference tbh.

 

[Cody]

Good grief, is this thread still going! Humbug!

 

[Joe Spivey]

Why is everyone that criticizes this system - that isn't present in any other game known to man (including games with a strong focus on PvE like Diablo) - just a griefer? That is a really dumb rhetoric!

I for one don't want to stop people from progressing. But real people instead of ai mean tougher fights and slower progression. And if this can be avoided by the press of a button than you shouldn't be able to play with or against me with this progress. It is that simple. Have an even playing field for everybody. You wouldn't like it if there would be an easy mode in the menu that doubles your HP, would you? Not if it can be activated and deactivated at will!

Not so. Please see the quote from Sandro Sammarco, the Lead Developer, about the difficulty of AI in Solo mode: "Players that dip into the "all group" after farming "private groups"; there are a few things to say about this.

•They are unlikely to have as good player-vs-player skills as those who live in the "all" group day in day out.
•NPCs can and will offer appropriate risks (in fact, it would not be a lie to suggest that we *could* make NPC ships significantly nastier than any human ships in the majority of situations. Not that we will, mind. But we could), so to get a tooled up advantage such players will have been facing a appropriate threat level (basically private groups should not be considered "easy mode").
•Everyone has access to their own private group(s)"

Also, the playing field IS even. It is even because you have exactly the same option as to which mode you play in as any other player. If you choose not to use those option then that is up to you but don't then say it is unfair and/or try and prevent other players from using those options.

He can't do the same thing in Open! He can do other activities that progress his game but not the same as in the main systems. Hell, he could even be killed on his way home after a long exploration session for some dumb warrant by a player.

Not sure we are talking about the same thing here. Let me clarify. A player in Solo and a player in Open can make money without interference from any other player and buy themselves the bestest ship ever. In both cases they do not have to worry about attack by any other player. I know this because I am doing it now. I am in Open mode in unexplored space on the other side of the Empire. I have explored and found pristine metallic resources and I am mining and then trading these to Empire systems. I haven't even seen another player for weeks. So what is the difference between me doing this as I am in Open and me doing this in Solo? And let's then take this a step further. I continue what I am doing and eventually kit myself out with an uber fighting ship and come up against you. How do you know whether I got this ship from playing as I am or by playing in Solo?

I hope this further helps to ease your fears concerning mode swopping.

 

[Kadaeux]

And I am not a griefer! I rather enjoy the added danger other players bring with them. But that is just meaningless to me if there isn't an even playing field.

Here's the key point. YOU would rather enjoy the added danger other players bring with them.

So do many others.

So why do you feel the need force it on people who would rather NOT do so?





EDIT: To summarise.




People who are happy with the system. "I like being able to choose whether to spend time in open, group or solo play as the moods dictate."

People who are NOT happy with the system. "Why the hell can't I force myself onto other players? Dev's force them to play with me, I want to gank a bi*ch."

 

[Viajero]

Not sure we are talking about the same thing here. Let me clarify. A player in Solo and a player in Open can make money without interference from any other player and buy themselves the bestest ship ever. In both cases they do not have to worry about attack by any other player. I know this because I am doing it now. I am in Open mode in unexplored space on the other side of the Empire. I have explored and found pristine metallic resources and I am mining and then trading these to Empire systems. I haven't even seen another player for weeks. So what is the difference between me doing this as I am in Open and me doing this in Solo? And let's then take this a step further. I continue what I am doing and eventually kit myself out with an uber fighting ship and come up against you. How do you know whether I got this ship from playing as I am or by playing in Solo?

I hope this further helps to ease your fears concerning mode swopping.

This, so much this.

Frontier is presenting an MMO in a revolutionary way. That of pretty much an infinite universe. And that changes the "rules of the game" quite a bit from other more traditional MMO's. In other MMO's territory or ressources may be limited in open play. In those more traditional MMO's the best loots will be always in fully PVP areas, etc. And that is why newcomers to Elite think there is an issue with free changing from SOLO to OPEN.

The truth of the matter is that to all gaming purposes, given the size of the galaxy, there is no development difference at all between the two. Once both the size of the galaxy and the fact you can be in OPEN for months (earning as much credits as anyone) without seeing a single human sink in, then one can realize free switching is really irrelevant.

There are other issues with SOLO vs OPEN free switching, but fairness of individual development is not one of them.

 

[Robert Graham]

To the op: Frontier don't have to do anything at all that you demand they do sorry that's the truth THEIR game.

The 'Modes' have been part of the game from day zero, David stated they would be in the game from the get go in part so that people don't have to worry about 'greifing' or headaches.. every time one of these posts show up honestly to me it reads as a 5 year old having a trantrum because they haven't seen another player despite the fact that for all they know the reason they might not be seeing other players could be a rather large reason.

I play Open, have since Gamma Day 1, only time I go 'Grouped' is if I'm doing a live stream and that's because it saves bandwidth, I've seen 5 players since then I don't care why? Because their game is their game, Mine is mine, while 100 + of us all doing the same thing might make a small drop in the ocean, me personally i'm a rain drop in that ocean and that doesn't bother me.. I honestly don't care what some one else is doing, is it hurting me? Nope, if they want to play Solo that's their choice, they want to play groupped that's their choice and honestly even if every one was forced 'Open' it wouldn't matter because the network is peer to peer if you can't get a connection you are put into your own 'solo' instance anyway.

Really all the 'Game Modes' is truly doing is telling the match making server who/what/where to accept the connections from something that your router is also doing because as some will point out if UPNP isn't playing nice you may never get any one.

In the end though for every one of these posts every person claiming omg carebears, there are a lot of people going who CARES. This is NOT EVE online, it's not Call of Duty the goal isn't to min/max or pawn every one .. the goal is what you set it to be, and that is the same for every other preson, the quicker some people realise that the happier they will be.

 

[Lanatir]

One thing btw, to all the people who say : This has never been done before in an mmo! This is unfair!

Might be true it hasnt been done before. But guess what. The guy who invented MMO's, Sir Richard 'Lord British' Garriott himself, the one guy you wouldnt even know the term mmo without, is doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING with his new MMO Shroud of the Avatar. You cann play offline, solo online, group online or full online. So just because something has been done differently aaaaaaall the time doesnt mean that it cant change, and Richard has already said if the technology would have been as advanced back then as it is now, he would have already done it with Ultima online.