The Cargo Scoop is a chore to deal with (And for no good reason)

[Lorik]

When mining, I understand the trick of keeping your laser in the same place on the asteroid to cause all of your chunks to line up neatly for you when you go to pick them up, but the appeal of this is instantly undermined by the absolute frustration that is the Cargo Scoop.

To begin with, it lies to you. Even if you keep the object in the very center of the scoop, it will sometimes get hit by your ship and fly off wildly. You can argue that you should just get good at using it, but in a game where we have leading sights on our fixed guns, and gimbaled systems that can track a ship, why is it that something as simple as the cargo scoop does not have an accurate guidance system?

The second frustration comes into play after you finish scooping an object. Once again, returning to mining, if I have a line of clumps ready to be picked up, by the time I've managed to pick a clump up, the next clump in line is hidden behind / under my ship's dashboard. Now, this wouldn't be an issue if any number of things were in place besides what is currently there. At the moment, the contacts list does not display your clumps in order of which one is closest to you, and there is no hotkey to cycle through cargo. Either one of these would at least alleviate the problem, but there are also two other alternatives that could make this much less of a chore.
The first would be simply having all possible cargo appear on the scoop's HUD without needing to lock onto it, allowing us to simply fly into the line and as long as we aimed properly, it would all be scooped up in one neat pass.
The second, which is just as simple, would be to have the cargo tracking automatically switch to the next closest clump as soon as the prior clump had been retrieved. Either of these two changes would greatly improve the way our current scooping works, without trivializing the act of manually collecting your cargo.

Lastly, but possibly one of the most annoying aspects of this, is that stupid 'Material Processed' blip that covers up your scoop's HUD. You could put it ANYWHERE else besides there, and I'd be fine with it, but where it is right now forcibly slows your ability to collect your clumps as you have to wait for it to go away until you can reliably line up with your next clump to scoop it.

 

[Farmer84]

I agree for the most part. I think the cargo scoop is fine for picking up odds and ends here and there - for smuggling/privateering and the like, but for larger things such as mining or real serious smuggling (attacking cargo ships for lots of loot rather than picking up what gets dropped behind while fighting) it's tedious and annoying. Sure I've gotten better at it, but that doesn't mean it's exactly quick and/or fun.

How about an extra module (a utility mount?) that takes up a slot but acts as a sort of "vacuum" pulling nearby/targeted items into the scoop for you? That way it takes up a slot but reduces the tedium for those who it annoys, and if you don't mind it, then keep at it.

I gave up on mining after a few attempts because catching the ore floating around was a huge pain. Especially when you destroy items by hitting them too fast or send them off flying. Not to mention losing which asteroid you were mining because you become disorientated chasing ore.

 

[Lorik]

How about an extra module (a utility mount?) that takes up a slot but acts as a sort of "vacuum" pulling nearby/targeted items into the scoop for you? That way it takes up a slot but reduces the tedium for those who it annoys, and if you don't mind it, then keep at it.

My friend and I have talked at length about different additional modules that would be possible for the cargo scoop to become more automated, but I was told previously that FD want to make mining extremely manual, which is why I focused all of my points on simple quality of life improvements that would still require you to take the time and effort to manually pull the cargo in, but avoid making it the most teeth pullingly annoying process they seem to have imagined.

 

[Hekantonkheries]

use an adder, the cargo scoop is so far back on the ship that whatever your scooping gets stuck on the bottom of the ship and funneled right into it

 

[Danneh]

I'd like to see that black screen turn into a camera feed out of my cargo hold, and perhaps some kind of guided retrieval system showing all the cargo ahead of the hold, so the whole process is just a bit quicker. The whole problem stems from the fact you have to keep stopping and starting if they're in a line because you can't see the second after you've picked up the first. Cargo hold camera would sort that.

 

[Lorik]

use an adder, the cargo scoop is so far back on the ship that whatever your scooping gets stuck on the bottom of the ship and funneled right into it

No, no, absolutely no. I JUST upgraded from an Adder to a Cobra Mk 3, and while the THEORY of that seems sensible, in practice it doesn't work, because your ship won't actually collect anything in the scoop that's not being targeted.

I'd like to see that black screen turn into a camera feed out of my cargo hold, and perhaps some kind of guided retrieval system showing all the cargo ahead of the hold, so the whole process is just a bit quicker. The whole problem stems from the fact you have to keep stopping and starting if they're in a line because you can't see the second after you've picked up the first. Cargo hold camera would sort that.

I mean, that's basically what I was suggesting with it showing all the cargo on the screen at the same time.

 

[shrinkshooter]

I don't mine at all, but I do agree with all of OP's points. The single most annoying choice insofar as game design is a list of items under your contacts list that do not change in proximity to your ship. Now yes, I understand that such a thing is avoided because it would make it difficult to target a single thing if it's moving around the list due to distance changes relative to other objects. However, as OP has mentioned, it makes picking things up a great deal more tedious, even if (especially if) they're all lined up, in which case you need to scoop, back up, pull forward, scoop again. Having items hidden by your hull certainly doesn't help.

You could easily implement some kind of electromagnet system that could pull ores/metals into your hold or towards your scoop. I mean, we have shields and automatic module-repair systems; if someone wants to spend a utility or internal slot for a an EM module for cargo scooping, let them. This is technology that's already been around for decades in real life. I'm okay with not having tractor beams, but not having any technology whatsoever useful for grabbing things floating out there in a vacuum -- this far in the future, when we've been out there so long, in such an advanced state of our species -- is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Swan]

I think the cargo scoop is just fine as is.. for cargo.
-
With mining I'd like to see a module available that would allow drone retrieval or perhaps some kind of giant hoover! It's just that on a practical level, industrial ops like mining require suites of more bespoke solutions. I look forward to what FD develop into the New Year!

 

[TUXER]

the cargo scoop being good or bad is a worth while debate however 'not for a good reason' I am pretty sure is inaccurate.

So why cargo scoop? it is some form of twitch mechanic that keeps the player engaged in the game unlike Eve in which you mine and then go do laundry.

Now the mechanic might be bad and it might need to be replaced with something different but the overall idea is to not have 'auto-play'

 

[darkcyd]

the cargo scoop being good or bad is a worth while debate however 'not for a good reason' I am pretty sure is inaccurate.

So why cargo scoop? it is some form of twitch mechanic that keeps the player engaged in the game unlike Eve in which you mine and then go do laundry.

Now the mechanic might be bad and it might need to be replaced with something different but the overall idea is to not have 'auto-play'

The cargo scoop works like it did in the original Elite and for that, it will stay. No matter how much it makes mining horrible or completely makes piracy ineffective...It will stay because "it was like that when I first played elite, by god it'll be like that now."

 

[Lorik]

the cargo scoop being good or bad is a worth while debate however 'not for a good reason' I am pretty sure is inaccurate.

So why cargo scoop? it is some form of twitch mechanic that keeps the player engaged in the game unlike Eve in which you mine and then go do laundry.

Now the mechanic might be bad and it might need to be replaced with something different but the overall idea is to not have 'auto-play'

Did you actually read my argument, or are you just picking at my title? I outlined ideas that would actually allow it to remain an extremely manual process, rather than EVE's automated one, without making it tedious for, once again, no reason other than to be tedious.

 

[TUXER]

Did you actually read my argument, or are you just picking at my title? I outlined ideas that would actually allow it to remain an extremely manual process, rather than EVE's automated one, without making it tedious for, once again, no reason other than to be tedious.

Like I said the reason is NOT to just be tedious. The reason is to keep you engaged. It might not be done well but that is the reason.

Clearly from your misunderstanding of what I said it clear what I said needed to be said.\

Reason implies Why

How implies method

 

[Lorik]

Like I said the reason is NOT to just be tedious. The reason is to keep you engaged. It might not be done well but that is the reason.

Clearly from your misunderstanding of what I said it clear what I said needed to be said.\

Reason implies Why

How implies method

Except that the reason is either to be tedious, or because they were too lazy when designing this version of mining to make it better. I'm already more than engaged enough prior to the scooping. I have to go between rocks to find one with good ore at a good rate, then I need to find the axis of rotation and park myself there to make the chunks line up nicely before finally flying up to the line of chunks, positioning myself along said line and beginning to scoop.
So please, tell me why it is that you feel that the act of scooping up those chunks should take upwards of 5 minutes alone, simply because the scoops HUD, the targeting system, and the fact that the rocks will not even enter your cargo bay unless you have them targeted, makes you more engaged than the ideas I proposed.

 

[TUXER]

Except that the reason is either to be tedious, or because they were too lazy when designing this version of mining to make it better. I'm already more than engaged enough prior to the scooping. I have to go between rocks to find one with good ore at a good rate, then I need to find the axis of rotation and park myself there to make the chunks line up nicely before finally flying up to the line of chunks, positioning myself along said line and beginning to scoop.
So please, tell me why it is that you feel that the act of scooping up those chunks should take upwards of 5 minutes alone, simply because the scoops HUD, the targeting system, and the fact that the rocks will not even enter your cargo bay unless you have them targeted, makes you more engaged than the ideas I proposed.

I think we are just having a difference of opinion on the word 'reason'

I doubt very seriously they sat in a design meeting and said 'what is the reason for the scoop'? ah yes. to be tedous

I think my understanding of the word reason is more accurate than yours to be honest

 

[Lorik]

I think we are just having a difference of opinion on the word 'reason'

I doubt very seriously they sat in a design meeting and said 'what is the reason for the scoop'? ah yes. to be tedous

I think my understanding of the word reason is more accurate than yours to be honest

" or because they were too lazy when designing this version of mining to make it better."

 

[Agony_Aunt]

" or because they were too lazy when designing this version of mining to make it better."

Its been stated by the dev team that the current version of mining is bare bones for what they want to achieve. It has nothing to do with laziness and everything to do with priorities.

And really, calling the dev team lazy is absurd. Those guys have worked their asses off to bring the game to the current state. It would be nice to cut them some slack.

 

[Lorik]

Its been stated by the dev team that the current version of mining is bare bones for what they want to achieve. It has nothing to do with laziness and everything to do with priorities.

And really, calling the dev team lazy is absurd. Those guys have worked their asses off to bring the game to the current state. It would be nice to cut them some slack.

I refuse to cut them some slack, because this is being called the release version of the game. If you want to call it Beta, Gamma, or w/e, fine, but you don't get to 'release' your game and then say, "Oh, but this system isn't actually anything compared to what we want it to be."

The game is fun, granted, but that doesn't excuse sending out an unfinished game and calling it released.

 

[OnePercent]

TIP:

The best way to mine an asteroid is to actually orbit the asteroid using your lateral thrusters whilst firing your laser, I call it "waypoint mining" because then when you have exhausted all the rocks from the roid, the rocks will be perfectly spaced out and stationary in an arc around the asteroid.

You collect cargo much faster this way.

 

[Lorik]

TIP:

The best way to mine an asteroid is to actually orbit the asteroid using your lateral thrusters whilst firing your laser, I call it "waypoint mining" because then when you have exhausted all the rocks from the roid, the rocks will be perfectly spaced out and stationary in an arc around the asteroid.

You collect cargo much faster this way.

Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely try it, but ultimately the issues stated are unresolved, and simply partially bypassed.

 

[Raaya]

I'd love to get a mag/claw harpoon to reel in cargo/rocks, that you actually have to manually aim and fire at the target. Then when you pull it back you have to be careful not to go too fast or you'll lose connection, etc.

Edit: Could also be used for docking between vessels.