Wot? Wot? I think whether we're pro-EVE or anti-EVE or dont-give-a-tootle-about-EVE we can all agree. Wot?
Comparing elite and eve online..
- Thread starter obliterator
- Start date
Wot? Wot? I think whether we're pro-EVE or anti-EVE or dont-give-a-tootle-about-EVE we can all agree. Wot?
I am going to pop my 2 pence worth in here now as everybody wants to debate this.
Eve online and Elite.
I played EVE online and also did the Alpha and Beta testing. Was great fun in the last few days of beta testing as there was a free for all, pvp fight fest. It was great, But EVE online is not Elite Dangerous and people should not expect Elite Dangerous to be anything like EVE online.
This is the problem. I did not do the testing on Elite so I am just as new as every other person who paid good money to play this game. I expected it to be exactly what it said on the tin, as they say. Elite is Elite, a Trading/Pirate/Bounty hunter shoot everything flight simulator when we can all have fun playing the same game even if its against each other.
I do not want to play EVE or an EVE style game again. I made £1,500 when I sold that account and I will never go back.
Yes they are two different games, and that is where it should end as two different games. I remember EVE's early days where people were stating that it was the new Elite and people raved about it for months. People will say this is the new EVE game, and that will last about 2 months.
If somebody asks for something which was clearly an aspect of EVE do not expect people not to jump on it and shout "But this is Elite and not EVE, go away and play that game if you want that stuff."
The problem with people on this forum, except for the trolls who run telling tails when tables get turned on them, have a problem with anybody and everybody that does not think the same way they do. Some people will argue that the sky is green and the clouds are blood red, just so they can cause trouble and wind everybody up.
This argument about EVE and Elite isn't about these two clearly good games in their times, but about winding everybody up.
I expect to be flamed by trolls on here because this forum is full of troll which the Mods just will not ban.
Thats just my opinion and I am living with it, you live with your choices.
Eve online and Elite.
I played EVE online and also did the Alpha and Beta testing. Was great fun in the last few days of beta testing as there was a free for all, pvp fight fest. It was great, But EVE online is not Elite Dangerous and people should not expect Elite Dangerous to be anything like EVE online.
This is the problem. I did not do the testing on Elite so I am just as new as every other person who paid good money to play this game. I expected it to be exactly what it said on the tin, as they say. Elite is Elite, a Trading/Pirate/Bounty hunter shoot everything flight simulator when we can all have fun playing the same game even if its against each other.
I do not want to play EVE or an EVE style game again. I made £1,500 when I sold that account and I will never go back.
Yes they are two different games, and that is where it should end as two different games. I remember EVE's early days where people were stating that it was the new Elite and people raved about it for months. People will say this is the new EVE game, and that will last about 2 months.
If somebody asks for something which was clearly an aspect of EVE do not expect people not to jump on it and shout "But this is Elite and not EVE, go away and play that game if you want that stuff."
The problem with people on this forum, except for the trolls who run telling tails when tables get turned on them, have a problem with anybody and everybody that does not think the same way they do. Some people will argue that the sky is green and the clouds are blood red, just so they can cause trouble and wind everybody up.
This argument about EVE and Elite isn't about these two clearly good games in their times, but about winding everybody up.
I expect to be flamed by trolls on here because this forum is full of troll which the Mods just will not ban.
Thats just my opinion and I am living with it, you live with your choices.
People will always compare 'their own' to the 'others' as part of our tribal nature. Of course in many cases the comparison is chalk and cheese but by means of illogic people can justify all kinds of crap to themselves. Yes when it comes down to what is perceived as better it can be very facile but, well, that is people for you...
You win the argument today.
Nice to see somebody is willing to admit they were wrong
LMAOOnly joking, wouldn't want anybody running to the mods claiming I have been abusing them. lol lol
Its a game after all can't we just sit down and play it.
daan2002
Banned
not just here they also do it over on star trek online the game for care bears take a look http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1334951 i love ED love eve but i like ED a little more
Nice to see somebody is willing to admit they were wrong
Only joking, wouldn't want anybody running to the mods claiming I have been abusing them. lol lol
Its a game after all can't we just sit down and play it.
??????????
Which part did you not understand, the joking part or the other?
Thanks for exemplifying what I'm talking about. Eve is a game for online sadists and masochists, you and your pals enjoyed making random people mad over the internet. And that's the community doesn't want you in Elite. Also, since you're after the cheap kicks of getting a reaction out of other gamers, breaking immersion and cheesing game mechanics is fine in your book. This is especially irritating in an immersive game like Elite which hopefully has like patience for your kind.
Sad life to see human interactions as zero-sum games
I don't care about the relative character of the players in the two games, I guess that there's enough EVE players here by now to make any comparisons moot. I just think that there's no point trying to add features from game A that can't work in the architecture of game B.
You either get everyone on the same server(s), and have permanent player-owned assets, massive player-controlled fleets, and epic battle scenes played out at seconds per frame - or you instance ("island", whatever), and you get no permanent player-owned assets, no big fleets, and decent-sized fights shown in frames per second. I prefer the latter, others may prefer the former, still others may like a bit of both at different times. But expecting this game to be all things to all players at the same time is unrealistic with current technology.
You either get everyone on the same server(s), and have permanent player-owned assets, massive player-controlled fleets, and epic battle scenes played out at seconds per frame - or you instance ("island", whatever), and you get no permanent player-owned assets, no big fleets, and decent-sized fights shown in frames per second. I prefer the latter, others may prefer the former, still others may like a bit of both at different times. But expecting this game to be all things to all players at the same time is unrealistic with current technology.
No it's not. Example number 1. Plex for Good which returns the profits from sales of Plex to the charity. See here https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/PLEX_for_GOOD Example number 2. I've been in a number of corporations that has helped members out financially when they've got in to trouble through no fault of their own. Eve is one of the most generous communities around. Does that sound sadistic or masochistic to you?
I wouldn't mind more of an MMO feel to Elite Dangerous, so yes; I want to interact with all the good and bad that online gaming has to offer in the world of Elite Dangerous. But it doesn't yet exist. I just hope I won't be expected to pay for it in the form of a DLC or paid update.
Game mechanics exist for every player equally. There are mechanics that allow you to mitigate the effectiveness of any other mechanic as well. Unless you have to go up against either the RNG or the loot fairy. Both can be very annoying when it doesn't go right for you, but when they smile the smile is bright.
[/QUOTE]This is especially irritating in an immersive game like Elite which hopefully has like patience for your kind.
Sad life to see human interactions as zero-sum games[/QUOTE]
Forgive me for disagreeing but Elite isn't immersive. It's beautifully gorgeous looking, but there's chasms of information missing that should be required in game rather than having to look up either the question after the fact or by metagaming on the forums before hand. There's a thread about not being able to dock a Large ship on an outpost but the station doesn't tell you why it's refusing landing permission, which is just bad design.
There's a lot of niggling things in both games, I'm not a blind gamer I know that both Eve and Elite can be a lot better than they currently are. Elite isn't even six months old and Eve is over a decade and still going. It will be interesting to see how Elite looks like in 2024/5 by which time we'll all be plugged into a chair enjoying our Virtual Reality brain plug in. No need to think we'll dream it.
This ^^
Eve has horrible combat but great player interaction, empire building, and economics. While Elite is just the opposite, it's does well everything that Eve does poorly. I would personally love to just have both in one game.
Theres just no real *point* to playing Elite after awhile. Why try to fill up an empty universe with NPC everything when you have players that can do that. Player stations, player factions, player mining, player manufacturing, player economy, none of these are super hard things to do, you just have to have some faith that player interaction is more interesting than meaningless static content.
You are right about one thing, you have to choose between massive battles and instancing. However nobody said you have to do player interaction exactly the same as Eve. You should be able to get about 64-100 people in a battle at the same time, and that covers *a lot* of ground. Theres a bunch of things you could do to facilitate larger battles while also having instancing. And these design options have nothing to do with player owned assets, economics, etc. Just think outside the box a bit and a great design that brings the best parts of eve, to the best parts of Elite could be had.
How much data does a single user have to upload per second for these hypothetical 100 player skirmishes? Are there any stats on the bandwidth requirements for such a setup (with full 6 DoF movement, tracking hits from projectile and beam weaponry, with mixture of NPCs and PCs)?
Upload bandwidth usage for P2P traffic scales poorly enough that 32 is probably on the threshold of what is acceptable to a majority of the market without causing a lot more reliability and quality issues. The max upload is alarmingly low in a lot of big gaming regions. As we know, some big ISPs are cheapskates who will degrade P2P traffic intentionally, as they don't want to pay other networks for the upload capacity required to cover such user requirements.
The ED "islanding" algorithms, coupled with quality metrics assessed by the instancing server(s) from client data, should help avoid some of the worst problems, but they can only do so much before we get all the familar quality and reliability issues. ED obviously uses a cheaper architecture 1) in an attempt to ensure longevity without recourse to EVE-like subscription fees, and 2) to and keep ping times down just like most twitch games. Both of those are fundamental design and/or business decisions that we're not likely to change by wishful thinking.
Those things have been done to death in the space genre IMO, and one of the things I love about Elite is that its taking a different direction within the genre.
The Elite universe has no free market economy, it has no open-ended progression of control, and it doesn't represent an Old West open frontier where the only limit to a player's success is their own will and determination. Instead it's a simulated space opera, with immensely powerful and old establishments, and a kind of class system which locks players out of the upper echelons. In Elite we exist in the cracks between the stones of the established order, where we struggle to survive, prosper and gain influence and reputation. Unlike EvE, Elite's universe doesn't care about us. It exists despite us, not because of us.
That's the premise and clearly the game needs a lot of development and work to make it more obvious and to provide the hooks and opportunities to make player interactions more meaningful (both between each other and with the background simulation). It also needs time for the dynamism to emerge, and for it to be developed further. It's not going to appeal to everyone, but it does appeal to many of us.
FD have a very clear idea of where they want to take Elite and how the background simulation will drive player activity and conflict. I think most of the "this isn't EvE" comments that the OP is complaining about come from the fact that Elite still has to develop and settle into its niche, and all the player-driven suggestions don't fit into the simulation-driven game that Elite is setting out to be. All of those suggestions about player factions, player economy and player manufacturing are so far outside of what this game is intending to be that they are effectively saying "stop making this game, make another."
Elite's core simulation is political not economic. It's still extremely early days, and the game still has a long way to go before that simulation has developed to the point that EvE's economic simulation has got to, with all the hooks and opportunities for player activity working as smoothly as EvE's do.
I totally understand the frustrations of those who want more player-driven stuff in Elite, because what I always wanted from EvE is what Elite is giving us here. But they are different games with different goals and ultimately different playerbases.
I personally don't see anything wrong with people wanting to play PvP, there certainty seems to be enough on this forum that do. Perhaps the way to go for those people is to set up a private PvP group and petition Frontier for group options that enable all the features they desire? That way they will only ever meet people that actually want to play PvP and won't bother the rest of us.
Not in the mood to read all 10 pages, but people are wrong saying there is no comparison.
There is comparison... to a degree.
Those comparison are:
- Both games are about freedom, the player can choose be:
-- A Pirate;
-- A Murderer;
-- A Trader;
-- A Miner;
-- An Explorer.
- Both games are punishing, death hurts (to some degree):
-- If you don't have money to cover the insurance, you'll go back to the roots, with a starting "weak" ship (ok, on ED, the sidewinder can be pretty good if fully kitted).
- Space is vast, on ED is bigger, on EVE it's smaller, players can choose to move far, far away to avoid other player contact if they so choose to.
- When you undock, you accept non-consensual PVP, this goes to both games, on ED when you're on multi mode, but at least you can go to solo if you don't like PVP.
And the list can go on a bit more, but i'm a bit tired.. bite me >.>
When it comes into it, both games have the "same" concepts in mind "player freedom", but in terms of in-game mechanics, both play a lot differently. But while concepts and mechanics are different, doesn't mean you can't compare them, as long you know the differences between both games.
EVE has a lot of hate from carebears, it's understandable, but it doesn't make it much different from ED, after all, the main focus and ideologies are the same, give a player freedom to choose hes own path in this sci-fi game.
EVE has been around for ages and has a lot of features that ED doesn't and will never have, put those a side when comparing both games.
There is comparison... to a degree.
Those comparison are:
- Both games are about freedom, the player can choose be:
-- A Pirate;
-- A Murderer;
-- A Trader;
-- A Miner;
-- An Explorer.
- Both games are punishing, death hurts (to some degree):
-- If you don't have money to cover the insurance, you'll go back to the roots, with a starting "weak" ship (ok, on ED, the sidewinder can be pretty good if fully kitted).
- Space is vast, on ED is bigger, on EVE it's smaller, players can choose to move far, far away to avoid other player contact if they so choose to.
- When you undock, you accept non-consensual PVP, this goes to both games, on ED when you're on multi mode, but at least you can go to solo if you don't like PVP.
And the list can go on a bit more, but i'm a bit tired.. bite me >.>
When it comes into it, both games have the "same" concepts in mind "player freedom", but in terms of in-game mechanics, both play a lot differently. But while concepts and mechanics are different, doesn't mean you can't compare them, as long you know the differences between both games.
EVE has a lot of hate from carebears, it's understandable, but it doesn't make it much different from ED, after all, the main focus and ideologies are the same, give a player freedom to choose hes own path in this sci-fi game.
EVE has been around for ages and has a lot of features that ED doesn't and will never have, put those a side when comparing both games.
Last edited:
Just lol. PLEX4gud is the saddest iteration of online buttholes trying to make other people forget they are buttholes, and trying to trick themselves into thinking they're nice dudes. Newsflash: most of this PLEX donated is bought on market, with ingame isk that's been harvested through bots in 0.0, and said botting is made possible by all the players who naively respond to CTAs and follow alliance leaders (who make RL cash out of botting).
Also, how does solidarity within a closed group prove an absence of sadism? Didn't the pillaging and vikings have solidarity for one another? Didn't all sadistic military or para-military groups have solidarity for their members?
You're a disgusting liar when you say that eve is one of the most generous communities around, it's been proven time and time again it's full of sociopaths who will go any distance (through the internet) to push people's buttons and revel in the Schadenfreude.
You will of course bring up Vile Rat and the OMG AMAZING show of solidarity eve's community displayed for the widow of a spec ops tool for the western power structure, prancing around in a destroyed Libya. His widow must have had a comfy compensation from the US military for the loss of his husband, and yet the eve community had to brown-nose the big guys at the moment (goons), and raise tens of thousands dollars for someone who didn't need them, and mourn for a guy who made a living carrying out orders for the most destructive and imperialistic military force on earth's surface atm. Political rant aside, you can clearly see that eve's community likes to coddle the bullies and pick on the weak.
As for game mechanics and your pathetic justification "but but they're the same for everybody, you also can cheese them!", do you really believe that makes bad mechanics good? Like, in eve markjet is insta accross a region, but you can't have a scan of who's hanging out at the gate next system. Because hey, if such data was available, alt scouting accounts would be useless in empire, and CCP would lose a bit of revenue : (
And as to Elite being not immersive... just lol again. Go back to eve as you clearly belong there, in one of the nicest and most generous online communities there are. No wonder goons love it, as they only enjoy making games fun for everybody!
Last edited: