If you could, how would you rebalance your ships in game?

After playing for a week, I get the feeling that rather than each ship having each own niche, player acquisition seems to be pretty linear. For combat oriented pilots, it seems to be Sidewinder -> Eagle -> Viper -> Cobra -> Asp/Python/Anaconda. Meanwhile traders mostly follow the Hauler -> Type 6 -> Type 7 -> Type 9 route. There is a distinct trend to go for the biggest and most heavily armed/largest cargo capacity, which I don't blame the players given the current designs. However, I don't think certain ships should merely be thought of as a steeping stone to something more expensive, but have their specialization.

Therefore, I like to ask for your opinions on what you would like changed on the ships given the opportunity. For myself, I can only make suggestions for the ships I actually flown.

Sidewinder - Keep it as it is, as it's a starter ship

Eagle - At twice the mass of Sidewinder, the ship's armor value is way too low. Its limited top speed leaves it unable to compete with Viper/Cobra even with the advantage in maneuverability. A moderate increase in speed and armor value would make it a bit more competitive against better armed, better armored and faster opponents in Viper/Cobra. Its role should be an agile dogfighter, like the real world F-16 with excellent turn rate.
1. Increase top speed from 240 to 280, and boost speed from 350 m/s to 380 m/s.
2. Increase armor value from 40 to 60, same as Sidewinder.

Viper - This is supposedly the fastest ship current the in game. I find that its speed is way to identical to the Cobra's, which has better shielding, armor and power. A slight boost in speed would give the Viper a proper place in combat, as a high speed interceptor. If the Eagle is the game's equivalent of F-16, then the Viper should be the F-15, fast plane with superb acceleration.
1. Slightly increase top speed from 320 m/s to 330 m/s, and boost speed from 400 m/s to 410 m/s.

Hauler - This ship gets discarded as soon as traders are able to afford the Type 6. I think it deserves some love, perhaps as a dedicated smuggling vessel.
1. Decrease signature of the ship, and tripple the amount of time needed for law enforcement ships to scan it.

I would love to hear your opinions on this subject, as most of you probably have been playing the game since Beta and know a lot more than a week old noob.
 
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Eagle is fine imho, it should rely more on speed/manoeuvrability than hoping to withstand hits. Up to the same as the Sidewinder, what would the point of having a 'winder?

Viper: Speed boost would be ok perhaps.

Hauler is entry level as far as a more dedicated trader goes, and what you're describing is actually the Adder.

We have 15 more ships incoming, not yet sure what they are, but they may fill out the roles more.
 
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The Python is way to agile. It feels more like what a Fer de Lance should be. When that ship is added I'd like to see the Pythons mavouverabilty toned right down.
 
i find the viper a lot more responsive to speed changes during a dogfight. this lets me go from full speed to best turning speed way faster than my cobra can. as a result i think it is well balanced vs the cobra and i certainly enjoy getting back in the cockpit for some kill missions after bumbling about in my cobra.

the only thing that feels weird to me is how difficult it is to stay on a bigger ships 6. though i suspect this is something i will enjoy when i get a bigger ship!
 
Eagle is fine imho, it should rely more on speed/manoeuvrability than hoping to withstand hits. Up to the same as the Sidewinder, what would the point of having a 'winder?
The problem is that it doesn't actually have the speed to utilize its maneuverability properly in a dog fight. A Cobra and Viper can simply boost out to a distance, make a turn once out of the Eagle's weapon range, and proceed to obliterate it in a single pass. Having an excellent turn rate is useless if you can't somewhat keep up. Increasing the armor value of the ship would still make it no stronger than the Sidewinder, which is still pretty easy to to destroy with a burst of multi-cannon. It makes little sense that the Eagle is twice the mass of the Sidewinder with 1/3 less armor, as the very least it should be similar given the mass difference.

As far as the point of the Sidewinder, being free is the greatest advantage of them all don't you think?
 
Cobra - allow a C4 Power Distribution module

This would be a little silly.

It makes little sense that the Eagle is twice the mass of the Sidewinder with 1/3 less armor, as the very least it should be similar given the mass difference.

The Eagle is twice the mass but quite possibly more than twice the area, and may well have a design that implies a weaker overall hull, despite the extra mass.
 
The problem is that it doesn't actually have the speed to utilize its maneuverability properly in a dog fight. A Cobra and Viper can simply boost out to a distance, make a turn once out of the Eagle's weapon range, and proceed to obliterate it in a single pass. Having an excellent turn rate is useless if you can't somewhat keep up. Increasing the armor value of the ship would still make it no stronger than the Sidewinder, which is still pretty easy to to destroy with a burst of multi-cannon. It makes little sense that the Eagle is twice the mass of the Sidewinder with 1/3 less armor, as the very least it should be similar given the mass difference.


Upping the armor will also slow it down, add to the fact its a lower entry ship it shouldn't overall do that well against a Cobra or Viper, but that all depends on load outs, modules and pilot skills.

OP, not bring rude, but have you visited the outfitting screen yet? You can add/remove components, from weapons to armour.
 
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The Eagle is twice the mass but quite possibly more than twice the area, and may well have a design that implies a weaker overall hull, despite the extra mass.
That could be one way of putting it, but its armor should still be a bit tougher than the current paper thin value. As it stands, its maneuverability can't be utilized properly since the Eagle has no way of keeping Viper/Cobras in weapon range. You need to have the speed to hug your targets to utilize that turn rate.
 
That could be one way of putting it, but its armor should still be a bit tougher than the current paper thin value. As it stands, its maneuverability can't be utilized properly since the Eagle has no way of keeping Viper/Cobras in weapon range. You need to have the speed to hug your targets to utilize that turn rate.

Upgrade then, or see what you can achieve through outfitting.

44K for an Eagle, its a starter ship, 147K or so for a Viper which is a more advanced fighter ship. The Cobra is is an all-rounder for around 347K for its basic setup, and of course it should be winning these fights.

We'll be seeing another 15 ships sometime through 2015, that's exactly doubling what we have now. No idea what they could be, but it might mean more choices between each "tier".
 
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Upping the armor will also slow it down, add to the fact its a lower entry ship it shouldn't overall do that well against a Cobra or Viper, but that all depends on load outs, modules and pilot skills.

OP, not bring rude, but have you visited the outfitting screen yet? You can add/remove components, from weapons to armour.
Of course I have visited the outfitting screen. The default mass of the Eagle is 50 tons, double that of Sidewinder despite having 1/3 less armor. I'm saying that ships shouldn't be classified as low tier or high tier, but each having its own role. As of now, the "lower entry" ships are stepping stones until you get get in that Cobra/Anaconda/Type 9. They should all be competitive in some way, which of course needs adjustments in pricing.

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Upgrade then, or see what you can achieve through outfitting.

44K for an Eagle, its a starter ship, 147K or so for a Viper which is a more advanced fighter ship. The Cobra is is an all-rounder for around 347K for its basic setup, and of course it should be winning these fights.
Well in that case, then everyone should gun for an Anaconda and leave the rest. If the base price of the ship should be the determining factor in winning a fight, then you are describing the problem I cited from the start. Certain ships are considered merely as stepping stones or stop gap measures until they have enough money to progress to the next rank. It's like linear leveling in games, which shouldn't be the case in ED.
 
Of course I have visited the outfitting screen. The default mass of the Eagle is 50 tons, double that of Sidewinder despite having 1/3 less armor. I'm saying that ships shouldn't be classified as low tier or high tier, but each having its own role. As of now, the "lower entry" ships are stepping stones until you get get in that Cobra/Anaconda/Type 9. They should all be competitive in some way, which of course needs adjustments in pricing.

Ships are of course competitive to a degree across tiers (not sure its really feasible to "untier" designs at this stage, maybe when more ships are added?), but there comes a point where the advantages of a ship with more room for improvement begins to really tell. Think of the Eagle as a Hurricane fighter, whilst the Viper as a Tempest fighter, the Hurricane's development during WW2 was short lived as it couldn't be improved upon as much as that of the Spitfire and was outclassed and replaced by later designs like the Tempest.
 
Totally agree about Eagle. There is no sense in Eagle as it is now. No outstanding firepower, no speed. So anyone in a Viper/Cobra with decent skill can easily kill Eagle restricting him from jumping out. Maneuverability is cool, but speed can negate it. So we have glass cannon, without actual cannon. I do understand, that it is cheap, but there is totally no sense in it right now. I kinda don't believe that some manufacturing company could create such ship (again, we are not talking about NPC fighting, only PvP). Also, only one utility mount... Seriously? So even if it twice as big as sidewinder, and there are more space (as sidewinder definitely should have less, cause of all armor it has...) it still has less space for modules?
Summary: increase Eagle speed too highest in game. Than I am totally agree with keeping all other minuses.
 
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Of course I have visited the outfitting screen. The default mass of the Eagle is 50 tons, double that of Sidewinder despite having 1/3 less armor. I'm saying that ships shouldn't be classified as low tier or high tier, but each having its own role. As of now, the "lower entry" ships are stepping stones until you get get in that Cobra/Anaconda/Type 9. They should all be competitive in some way, which of course needs adjustments in pricing.

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Well in that case, then everyone should gun for an Anaconda and leave the rest. If the base price of the ship should be the determining factor in winning a fight, then you are describing the problem I cited from the start. Certain ships are considered merely as stepping stones or stop gap measures until they have enough money to progress to the next rank. It's like linear leveling in games, which shouldn't be the case in ED.

Its more than just base price, pilot skill and how the ships are outfitted also are major contributions. Right now people seem to really like the Python...:)

I honestly don't see the issue you're trying to cite, you can stay in whatever ship you want and I suspect some commanders have really mastered these lower tier ships, but for another example: F1 vs F3, would you take an F3 car and try to race against an F1?
 
Of course I have visited the outfitting screen. The default mass of the Eagle is 50 tons, double that of Sidewinder despite having 1/3 less armor. I'm saying that ships shouldn't be classified as low tier or high tier, but each having its own role. As of now, the "lower entry" ships are stepping stones until you get get in that Cobra/Anaconda/Type 9. They should all be competitive in some way, which of course needs adjustments in pricing.

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Well in that case, then everyone should gun for an Anaconda and leave the rest. If the base price of the ship should be the determining factor in winning a fight, then you are describing the problem I cited from the start. Certain ships are considered merely as stepping stones or stop gap measures until they have enough money to progress to the next rank. It's like linear leveling in games, which shouldn't be the case in ED.

This is impossible to balance like you are suggesting, a small sidewinder with 2 small gun mounts measuring up against an Anaconda with multiple large turrets/massive shields/SCB's both player controlled, it's a forgone conclusion. 1v1 will never be balanced like you are wanting, 1 v many then sure that's fine. If you are wanting 1v1 balance then this isn't the game for you.
 
Trade haulers should be exactly that.
long distance jumpers with big cargo holds.
small shields
fuel scoop slot
defence slots ecm chaff
no guns.

at the moment players are running with no shields and jump distance is bad.
Game makes no sense
 
Make the anaconda a mini-capital ship, less "heavy assault fighter". The Python should be touched by this to a lesser extent.
- Increase turret accuracy
- Decrease large ship turn rates
- Increase large ship HP (shield and armor)
- Reduce dumbfire missile fire rates
- Increase railgun/plasma heat generation
- Make larger thrusters increase your heat baseline by generating more heat when active to balance vs maneuverability gains (ie: A class > heat than C class)
 
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