Need some veteran combat analysis in here

[Arkea]

Fellow Elite CMDRs,

As a veteran EVE player, I'm used to the principles of HTFU, Don't Fly What You Can't Afford, and just general griefing. I don't intend to ever go Solo in Elite because it just feels a bit... wrong.

With that said, I need some help figuring out what I did wrong in a recent fight between me, in a Lakon Type 6, versus a CMDR Eagle. Sounds awful already doesn't it? Let's get down to it...

Carrying approx 100 tons of Superconductors on a normally safe trade run, I got interdicted by said Eagle. Once I failed to evade him, he started with a cargo scanner. Me, blissfully naive, thought he was looking for smuggling goods, since he had a Clean status, so I didn't boost away immediately. Damn was I wrong. And this is where things get "weird".

1. The Eagle opening fire, my shields were gone in under 4 seconds.

2. I deployed my turrets, but they couldn't shoot. Supposedly since he was behind me (I'm a newbie at how turrets work, so there.) I couldn't turn around either as he kept circling me, which is obvious since I'm in a Lakon, duh.

3. My armor starts going down as he switches to Multi-Cannon. It goes down at a 2-3% per hit pace, which I found extreme.

4. My power plant blows roughly 5 seconds after he starts hitting my armor. I can't do anything at this point but watch. And cry a bit.

5. He stops at 30%, either wanting me to jettison cargo, or reloading.

6. He starts firing again and I become fireworks. I promptly ragequit for the evening.


Now, my Lakon had a few upgrades, notably a better Power Distro, Shield Gen, max Thrusters, and various other small internal upgrades. My weapons were low Class 2x Beam Laser Turrets (I think), along with ECM and Heat Sinks. What the Eagle had, I don't know, apart from lasers and probably a multi-cannon.

So I have two questions regarding this:

1. Assuming I had a normal fit, and would get interdicted regardless of different routes or FSD skills, is there anything I could have done to get away? Boosting away is the first thing that comes to mind, but other than that, I don't know. Perhaps even fitting guns was a mistake.

2. Is the Lakon built out of paper? The fact that my shields and armor went faster than a Siderwinder, and that my power plant blew so fast, made me a bit annoyed. Then again, I'm aware how easy industrial ships in EVE dies, so it wouldn't actually surprise me, though I'm a bit hesitant of going against him even in a Viper (he was really good).

So there you have it. Want to say "lesson learned" but I can't, really. Analysis, suggestions or helpful comments are as such very welcome.

 

[adoredtv]

Sounds like a bounty hunter who scanned you for kill warrant information. Did you have a bounty elsewhere?

Bounty hunters don't scan for goods either, only pirates do that.

Of course it could just have been a murderer though if so I dunno why he'd bother with a scan first.

 

[Cmdr Moritz]

The only advantage you have as I see it is your hull mass. So just direct all pips to shields and hit the FSD button followed by patience

 

[Rath]

Fellow Elite CMDRs,

As a veteran EVE player, I'm used to the principles of HTFU, Don't Fly What You Can't Afford, and just general griefing. I don't intend to ever go Solo in Elite because it just feels a bit... wrong.

With that said, I need some help figuring out what I did wrong in a recent fight between me, in a Lakon Type 6, versus a CMDR Eagle. Sounds awful already doesn't it? Let's get down to it...

Carrying approx 100 tons of Superconductors on a normally safe trade run, I got interdicted by said Eagle. Once I failed to evade him, he started with a cargo scanner. Me, blissfully naive, thought he was looking for smuggling goods, since he had a Clean status, so I didn't boost away immediately. Damn was I wrong. And this is where things get "weird".

1. The Eagle opening fire, my shields were gone in under 4 seconds.

2. I deployed my turrets, but they couldn't shoot. Supposedly since he was behind me (I'm a newbie at how turrets work, so there.) I couldn't turn around either as he kept circling me, which is obvious since I'm in a Lakon, duh.

3. My armor starts going down as he switches to Multi-Cannon. It goes down at a 2-3% per hit pace, which I found extreme.

4. My power plant blows roughly 5 seconds after he starts hitting my armor. I can't do anything at this point but watch. And cry a bit.

5. He stops at 30%, either wanting me to jettison cargo, or reloading.

6. He starts firing again and I become fireworks. I promptly ragequit for the evening.


Now, my Lakon had a few upgrades, notably a better Power Distro, Shield Gen, max Thrusters, and various other small internal upgrades. My weapons were low Class 2x Beam Laser Turrets (I think), along with ECM and Heat Sinks. What the Eagle had, I don't know, apart from lasers and probably a multi-cannon.

So I have two questions regarding this:

1. Assuming I had a normal fit, and would get interdicted regardless of different routes or FSD skills, is there anything I could have done to get away? Boosting away is the first thing that comes to mind, but other than that, I don't know. Perhaps even fitting guns was a mistake.

2. Is the Lakon built out of paper? The fact that my shields and armor went faster than a Siderwinder, and that my power plant blew so fast, made me a bit annoyed. Then again, I'm aware how easy industrial ships in EVE dies, so it wouldn't actually surprise me, though I'm a bit hesitant of going against him even in a Viper (he was really good).

So there you have it. Want to say "lesson learned" but I can't, really. Analysis, suggestions or helpful comments are as such very welcome.

From my experience of taking out NPC Type6's, I think their armour is lacking... which is fair for most hauler/trader type ships. I think the best thing for you to do from the very start is forget about your experiences with EvE and go back to basics as Elite is vastly different.

Depending on his choice of lasers, will depend on your shield - Pulse and Beam lasers are very efficient at removing shields especially if they are GIMBALLED and multicannons are designed for armour removal as you are probably aware ... firstly I would have liked to know how you "pipped" your power distributor? Did you have extra power to shields in the SYS section? I would have said full power to engines and boost away but the eagle is likely to be faster - a CHAFF launcher would have been a good defensive choice and give you enough time for the FSD to recharge and for you to get away as the ECM is only great against missles. A chaff and a point defense would be a very nice combo if you have the hardpoints.

Also, he might have targeted your powerplant specifically - ive known ships to blow at 40% hull left with the reactor gone... Hope that is of SOME use.

p.s. Chaff would have been of use if he was using turrets or gimballed weapons... if he has static weapons this is of no use - he COULD have been using railguns - did you see a bright blue flash?

 

[Bangfish]

First upgrade shield generator, hull, and power distributor. Buy at least one shield cell bank (before they get nerfed to the ground hopefuly). You should now always be able to escape since eagle is a paper weight and can't inhibit your FSD enough. While he's pounding on you keep 4 pips at system and just spam shield cell as needed. You will always escape from smaller ships if you do this.

When wings are implemented and shield cells gone, you should be able to hire an escort (be it NPC or player).

 

[Britannkic]

Fellow Elite CMDRs,

.....What I did wrong in a recent fight between me, in a Lakon Type 6, versus a CMDR Eagleft

So first off, you a.ready know this, don't fight in a Type 6 against anything

secondly, full pips to engine, full thrust, boost as often as you can, all in a straight direction and you will outrun the eagle until FSD is ready to SC

dump the weapons, get the biggest power plant, thrusters, FSD, power distributor and shield generator you can, preferably A class

Type 6 is a great runner

 

[Joe nose]

What did you upgrade your shield generator to? Shield cell unit could have bought you some time, and might have allowed you to escape. Although it sounds like your opponent knew what he was doing in targeting the power plant, so that's not certain. I know you were really asking about post-interdiction, but Perhaps more early evasives in super cruise would have been the best option in retrospect. Even if you couldn't shake him that way, it would at least have made it clear that he was homing in on you. At which point you could have tried to jump to a different system before the interdiction battle got underway.

 

[ianw]

If you keep an eye on the scanner you can avoid an interdiction by throttling back, then dropping out of super cruise from where you can re-route.

If you get an iterdiction warning you can throttle back and submit then re-engage super cruise. All power to engines and boost.

If you manage to win the interdiction tug of war they spin out with damage giving you time to escape.

Best method is avoidance if you are outmatched.

Good luck commander!

 

[Frenotx]

If you want to make interdictors require a change of pants after fighting you, try fitting a fixed beam, and a heat seeker torpedo pylon to your Type-6. When you get pulled out of supercruise, slam your throttle to full reverse. Once the enemy is roughly in front of you, cut to half reverse if you're having a hard time getting the bad guy under your crosshair. Go to town with your beam. When the lock resolves, let it rip. It will cost you a good bit of money each time you have to do this (torps are like, 15k cr a piece), but there's a good chance it will outright kill smaller ships, and do a hefty amount of damage to cobra-sized ships. If you can lase the shield off a cobra before letting the torp go, it will probably kill the cobra.

 

[Rath]

Ah the other thing you can do, is SUBMIT to the interdiction by throttling down... That way your FSD recharge is short and you can get away faster.

....Edit : you will also take no damage to your hull.

 

[Arkea]

Sounds like a bounty hunter who scanned you for kill warrant information. Did you have a bounty elsewhere?

No, no bounties anywhere. I think it was just a general fun kill.

The only advantage you have as I see it is your hull mass. So just direct all pips to shields and hit the FSD button followed by patience

Noted.

Depending on his choice of lasers, will depend on your shield - Pulse and Beam lasers are very efficient at removing shields especially if they are GIMBALLED and multicannons are designed for armour removal as you are probably aware ... firstly I would have liked to know how you "pipped" your power distributor? Did you have extra power to shields in the SYS section? I would have said full power to engines and boost away but the eagle is likely to be faster - a CHAFF launcher would have been a good defensive choice and give you enough time for the FSD to recharge and for you to get away as the ECM is only great against missles. A chaff and a point defense would be a very nice combo if you have the hardpoints.


Also, he might have targeted your powerplant specifically - ive known ships to blow at 40% hull left with the reactor gone... Hope that is of SOME use.

IIRC, I pipped up my engines in an attempt to boost away, but the power plant blew before I had the chance. After that I kind of just panicked, so I don't think I pipped anything else. And yeah, I think he went for the power plant directly.

First upgrade shield generator, hull, and power distributor. Buy at least one shield cell bank (before they get nerfed to the ground hopefuly). You should now always be able to escape since eagle is a paper weight and can't inhibit your FSD enough. While he's pounding on you keep 4 pips at system and just spam shield cell as needed. You will always escape from smaller ships if you do this.

Good tip about the Shield Cell, hadn't thought of that. Will keep this tactic in mind.

So first off, you a.ready know this, don't fight in a Type 6 against anything

secondly, full pips to engine, full thrust, boost as often as you can, all in a straight direction and you will outrun the eagle until FSD is ready to SC

dump the weapons, get the biggest power plant, thrusters, FSD, power distributor and shield generator you can, preferably A class

Type 6 is a great runner

Noted.

What did you upgrade your shield generator to? Shield cell unit could have bought you some time, and might have allowed you to escape. Although it sounds like your opponent knew what he was doing in targeting the power plant, so that's not certain. I know you were really asking about post-interdiction, but Perhaps more early evasives in super cruise would have been the best option in retrospect. Even if you couldn't shake him that way, it would at least have made it clear that he was homing in on you. At which point you could have tried to jump to a different system before the interdiction battle got underway.

I was actually really close to jumping to another system when he interdicted me, which was immediately after I had jumped into system. I had the "Align with blabla trajectory" warning blaring while interdicted even, but alas, it didn't help.

If you keep an eye on the scanner you can avoid an interdiction by throttling back, then dropping out of super cruise from where you can re-route.

If you get an iterdiction warning you can throttle back and submit then re-engage super cruise. All power to engines and boost.

If you manage to win the interdiction tug of war they spin out with damage giving you time to escape.

Best method is avoidance if you are outmatched.

Good luck commander!

Yea, I've managed this a few times before. I need to practice moar.

-------------


Thanks a lot for all your (FAST!) replies, I learned quite a bit. Now I should be better prepared the next time I decided to get into the Type 6.

 

[A Titan]

I fly in a Type 6 also, good suggestions above another I have is if you find yourself interdicted by another player is to spam that chaff as you fly away it will throw off gimbled weapons used by many players.

 

[Akelig von Trashcan]

Fellow Elite CMDRs,


2. I deployed my turrets, but they couldn't shoot. Supposedly since he was behind me (I'm a newbie at how turrets work, so there.) I couldn't turn around either as he kept circling me, which is obvious since I'm in a Lakon, duh.


Try flight assist off and keep him under your belly. Your roll is awsome in the type-6 and you can outroll him. The turrets are at the belly, try to keep him there. If he doesn't have chaffs he will need to flee or die.
Also, if he is in front of you, ram him. You will survive, he will not.

 

[Antenociti]

Submit to interdiction (less time for FSD to re-engage + no damage)
Boost, all pips to engines, keep boosting
Shield Cell (if/when needed) + instant chaff ( a lot of these new "pirates" just use gimbals, chaff totally stuffs their ability to target you if they have gimbals)
Keep running until you jump out.


I didnt bother putting weapons on a type 6, it just makes the insurance higher.

and, yeah, if its an eagle and you still have shields up - ram him.
If you dont, then dont.

 

[Arkea]

Try flight assist off and keep him under your belly. Your roll is awsome in the type-6 and you can outroll him. The turrets are at the belly, try to keep him there.

Awesome, I had no idea. Thanks.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

People haven't mentioned this, but the "race to elite" contest could be why people are killing just to kill. Good on you for playing in open. It's much more exciting for everyone.

 

[Tigga]

Sounds like he just wanted to kill you. Guys like this make proper piracy much harder.

Were you in an anarchy system? Sometimes you have to hop through them on your way somewhere. Spend as little time as possible there as you can be attacked and killed with no consequences.

 

[Bangfish]

Try flight assist off and keep him under your belly. Your roll is awsome in the type-6 and you can outroll him. The turrets are at the belly, try to keep him there.

That's not very smart since under his belly is also the cargo hatch which when damaged will start leaking cargo. Even 20% damage to hatch will do the trick.

 

[Arkea]

Sounds like he just wanted to kill you. Guys like this make proper piracy much harder.

Were you in an anarchy system? Sometimes you have to hop through them on your way somewhere. Spend as little time as possible there as you can be attacked and killed with no consequences.

I was in a Fed system, so yeah. I tend to rush though Anarchy systems anyway, unless I have to go to a station.

 

[shrinkshooter]

1. Assuming I had a normal fit, and would get interdicted regardless of different routes or FSD skills, is there anything I could have done to get away? Boosting away is the first thing that comes to mind, but other than that, I don't know. Perhaps even fitting guns was a mistake.

Yes. If you submit to an interdiction by dropping your throttle to zero in SC, your FSD will recharge quickly. Boosting away won't get you away from the eagle, but it's a very light ship, which wouldn't disrupt your FSD charge. You'd be able to leave after 15 seconds. Full pips to shields makes them stronger. Carrying shield cells would help you keep them up while you're waiting to jump out.

Additionally, if you check your scanner and see someone lining up to interdict you, you can drop out of SC before he does it, and you can either wait for him to follow you into your instance and prompty jump out and leave him behind, or you can jump to another system. Both are pre-emptive ways of escaping a would be pirate.

2. Is the Lakon built out of paper?

The T6 has crap for armor. It's about as weak as a sidewinder in my experience. Fitting a larger shield gen (class 4, say) should help you out a bit.

I also have no experience with turrets, so I can't tell you. If they weren't firing, either your underside wasn't exposed/your turrets couldn't get a bead on the target, or your power supply is too low and deploying your hardpoints turns some things off, which I doubt is what happened.

And trying to win the interdiction arm wrestle is an exercise in frustration in a T6. Thing has the flexible turning capabilities of a fridge.