Your Mining system is TERRIBLE!

So would you say mining is indiscutably perfect and should not evolve? It's all I'm suggesting. More equipment options, maybe a novel way to break up asteroids and collect fragments (no, not a tractor beam), automated mining machines - just like the one FE2/FFE had -, or what have you.

You accuse me of being too subjective, but your position on "hand-holding" is hardly objective and universal you know.

Sorry for the bickering, but I really don't see where's the harm in putting an essential chunk of the gameplay in question, and why one would just close off the discussion with such "you suck, mining is fine, go away" comments.
 
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So would you say mining is indiscutably perfect and should not evolve?

Why would I claim that mining is "indiscutably" perfect when I've already made a statement in this thread regarding its viability?

I don't take it as bickering. :D The only true way to show respect for your fellow human beings is to share a conflicting opinion so that both sides can consider another point of view to further refine their own opinion, to broaden their understanding of reason and rationale. In my opinion, intelligent debate is the pinnacle of respect for one another.

I take any and all objection to my opinion as a chance to broaden my point of view. I value every single opposition to my position quite highly, sir. Thanks for taking the time to illustrate your point of view. :)
 
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The mining system is outright TERRIBLE, I much prefer the click-and-wait style of Eve Online
Great. Go play EVE. From the EVE forums,
"Overall, you have something like 20 seconds or maybe 30 seconds to play "click and wait, click and wait" game of selecting cans and getting their contents".

Amazing! :cool:
 
You guys are reading so much into my EVE comment that I feel the need to clarify myself:

Yes, I find mining so terrible in ED right now that I prefer mining in EVE simply because I find the current implementation to be frustrating and not fun at all. Mining in EVE isn't fun either, but it's at least not so frustrating. Does this mean that I want mining in ED to become the same as in EVE? No, not at all. I do however want it changed to something less frustrating and more fun.

I understand people disagree with me, but I also know many who agree with me. Perhaps the whole problem could be resolved by aligning properly with the asteroid, like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, but that seems yet again like a bad and frustrating mechanic that simply isn't any fun. At least not to me.
 
this isnt an issue with just the mining, its the entire scoop up cargo mechanic that is not thought through in my opinion. Scooping up is okay for a couple of rocks or a few containers but once you get to do it 20 times over and over and over again it becomes dull and boring. A module that would assist in scooping up would be very welcome and lots of people have asked for it.
However it could just as well be players like me that are spoiled by comfort mechanics used in every other game these days that are just not up to the task of spending more time picking up loot than "earning" that loot.
 
The mining system is outright TERRIBLE, and the main culprit is the scooping system. It's like the developers decided that they needed some kind of extra mechanic for mining over just aiming your laser, so they added the scooping and refining system. Refining is quite fine, though it is very tedious having to constantly open a menu to dump stuff you don't want. Scooping however is a complete game breaker. When you mine an asteroid, the ore will shoot out in any random direction, often times on the OPPOSITE side of the asteroid you are mining.

Now, going around chasing nuggets of ore all over the place is a frustrating experience as is. Add to this that you have to aim your scooping properly as well, and everything will take even longer. Once you're done picking up some nuggets, well, you often times lose track of which asteroid you were mining in the first place, because you can't mark them in any way.

This whole system is mind-numbingly boring, tedious, annoying and frustrating. You name it. My impression is that the devs spent time and energy on making an interactive mechanic to steer away from the usual "push-a-button-and-wait" system used by many games, but forgot the detail that it would probably be helpful if said mechanic was fun at least. I much prefer the click-and-wait style of Eve Online (unless it has changed in recent years) because the current implementation is nothing but frustration. I tried it, and will never try it again unless it changes.

Implementing some kind of tractor beam or automatic ore scooping device to equip your ship with would probably be the easiest way to fix this mess. Doing something about the constant need to enter a menu to manage the refinery would help too, but is less important.

To be honest, the scooping isn't the issue with mining. It's annoying - I'll give you that, but it isn't a deal breaker. You get better at it. I can pick up the 5-10 fragments of from mining an asteroid in probably under a minute or so unless the asteroid was spinning really heavily. The issue is its progression flat lines (like bounty hunting does). I've been mining in a Cobra and it works just fine. Why would I use a bigger ship? I could stay out mining longer, but that won't actually make me more money per time spent. Trips back to the refinery take a few minutes. Staying out longer in the field is just asking for trouble. I wouldn't want to get caught with a hold of 50-100 Platinum/Palladium. 34 is enough.

Larger ships can mount larger mining lasers and refineries, but there's two issues with this. One, no one knows what better mining lasers do besides break off chunks faster. If this is all they do, it's fairly pointless as you can fire a mining laser forever with 4 pips in weapons. Second, bigger refineries are good, but for example there are only 7 possible minerals/metals in a Metallic Pristine field (the only place you should be mining). Why would I want a 10 bin refinery?

Here are my suggestions:

1. Add a module that scoops up/tractors beams/whatever fragments into the refinery, but make them only on larger ships. This means that smaller ships can mine, but larger ships can do more "automated" large scale mining. This encourages serious miners to advance while not penalizing smaller miners. It also encourages more specific ships. Too many of the multi-purpose ships are the "best' at what they do. Multi-purpose usually they aren't the best at specific roles, but that isn't the case here.

2. Allow the refineries to be programmed. By this I mean you should be able to tell your refinery to either a.) auto-refine a mineral/metal and b.) auto-eject a mineral/metal. This way you could tell it to always eject Indite for example and always refine platinum. Would save the annoyance of switching back and forth after each ton is refined.

3. Please tell us what larger mining lasers do. If they don't do much, please change that. For example, larger/better lasers should increase the fragment %'s. Perhaps on bigger ships, larger lasers could break off very large chunks (maybe even tons at a time, rather than fragments). This again would encourage miners to have bigger, "mining" vessels rather than souped up Cobras/whatever.

4. There is no reason to mine Rocky/Ice/Metal Rich rings. Mining is already fairly tedious, so you need to find the "optimal" areas to make it worth you time. This makes mining lesser metals/minerals rather pointless. Perhaps there should be some more valuable use for some of them? Right now I tend to stick to Platinum, Palladium, Gold, and Silver because they are the highest priced. Perhaps Ice rings should be minable for water that can be sold to large-population worlds? I just know you have some reason to mine the other stuff - or why have them in the game?

5. Add some spice into mining. Alien artifacts popping out of asteroids. Pirates stashes uncovered while mining. Stuff like that.

Honestly, mining isn't anymore boring then trading. In fact, I enjoy it more so. It's at least more active. But it does need some love. The issue is it's fairly easy to outfit any ship to be the "ideal" miner almost instantly. All you need is 1 mining laser and 1 refinery. Cargo space is relative - just depends on how long you want to mine in one sitting. Unlike trading, it doesn't increase your profits dramatically to have a bigger load. So once you get the hang out of (which takes a few attempts) that's it. There's nowhere to go.
 
My only gripe with mining is that all too often you can't get a full ton of material from a rock. Not too much of a problem if its a common material (although who bothers with those?), but silver and better are a pain. You spend ages finding a rock with a good metal, and then you have to find another. Not saying you shouldn't have to move on, but would be nice to get a ton's worth from most rocks before having to do so.

Oh, did i say one gripe? I meant two :D

Second one is while chasing down your cuttings, you can get disoriented and lose your original rock, especially in a tight field and if you let a piece get away. Would be nice if scorch marks remained for longer so you could see what you had already been targetting, or something.
 
The vast majority of these mining objections go right out the window when, like many other objections, you learn to do it right.

[video=youtube;rZAyvBswZp0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZAyvBswZp0[/video]
 
I agree with the OP. Besides the fact that mining on planets isn't possible yet, FD could learn alot here from Eve Online - no loss of honour since Eve did learn from Elite, too.
 
Being able to target and scan rocks would improve mining a lot. An optional tractor beam/grapple hook/mining drone module would also offer significant improvements.
 
The mining system is outright TERRIBLE, and the main culprit is the scooping system. It's like the developers decided that they needed some kind of extra mechanic for mining over just aiming your laser, so they added the scooping and refining system. Refining is quite fine, though it is very tedious having to constantly open a menu to dump stuff you don't want. Scooping however is a complete game breaker. When you mine an asteroid, the ore will shoot out in any random direction, often times on the OPPOSITE side of the asteroid you are mining.

Now, going around chasing nuggets of ore all over the place is a frustrating experience as is. Add to this that you have to aim your scooping properly as well, and everything will take even longer. Once you're done picking up some nuggets, well, you often times lose track of which asteroid you were mining in the first place, because you can't mark them in any way.

This whole system is mind-numbingly boring, tedious, annoying and frustrating. You name it. My impression is that the devs spent time and energy on making an interactive mechanic to steer away from the usual "push-a-button-and-wait" system used by many games, but forgot the detail that it would probably be helpful if said mechanic was fun at least. I much prefer the click-and-wait style of Eve Online (unless it has changed in recent years) because the current implementation is nothing but frustration. I tried it, and will never try it again unless it changes.

Implementing some kind of tractor beam or automatic ore scooping device to equip your ship with would probably be the easiest way to fix this mess. Doing something about the constant need to enter a menu to manage the refinery would help too, but is less important.

A lot of games have used the "scooping system". This isn't ever going to be like Eve where you sleep through mining.
 
So the EvE system of click and wait is better than having to actually do something? I disagree. Oh and if you chip off a single chunk and then snap it up you will find the mining is faster and you never loose the asteroid. With practice you can chip a chunk and snap it up like a dog catching treats in a few seconds. get yourself a 5 bin refinary and this will greatly reduce the amount of menu poking.

Honestly, just because YOU find mining boring does not validate your thread title.

Nah, eve has bots for mining, eve mining is really that bad. But Elite mining sucks too.
 
The only time I will do mining is when we can drop mining rigs on a planet or asteroid as they had in Frontier.
 
It's not hard to scoop up the fragments, but the repetitive nature of blasting asteroids running around scooping up the ore then managing the bins is mind numbing. I'm betting that of all the roles they have it has to be the least popular. It's a huge time sink with little gain.
 
It's not hard to scoop up the fragments, but the repetitive nature of blasting asteroids running around scooping up the ore then managing the bins is mind numbing. I'm betting that of all the roles they have it has to be the least popular. It's a huge time sink with little gain.

With a little research, you can be hauling palladium or platinum for 15,000-19,000 per ton and only needing about 4-5 chunks per ton. Is that little gain?
 
I would like to see a tractor beam module of some kind, so at least there is an easier option and you have to sacrifice a module slot for it.
 
Mining should not just be point a click! So the intention is right. However mining need a second pass for sure. I would really like to see a dedicated mining ship with drones, robots, harpoon missiles and drilling equipment or whatever they (FD) can come up with to make it fun and challenging.

No tractor beams please...
 
Yea the mining system is lunatic in the year of 3301
chasing a nugget true space ' is lunatic' but this what happends when 'dev listning to fanboi's'

it's better of they just remake it to

you aim your laser the laser take out the ore and transfer it into your cargo ' as David Braben say keep it simple stupid'

The mining system is outright TERRIBLE, and the main culprit is the scooping system. It's like the developers decided that they needed some kind of extra mechanic for mining over just aiming your laser, so they added the scooping and refining system. Refining is quite fine, though it is very tedious having to constantly open a menu to dump stuff you don't want. Scooping however is a complete game breaker. When you mine an asteroid, the ore will shoot out in any random direction, often times on the OPPOSITE side of the asteroid you are mining.

Now, going around chasing nuggets of ore all over the place is a frustrating experience as is. Add to this that you have to aim your scooping properly as well, and everything will take even longer. Once you're done picking up some nuggets, well, you often times lose track of which asteroid you were mining in the first place, because you can't mark them in any way.

This whole system is mind-numbingly boring, tedious, annoying and frustrating. You name it. My impression is that the devs spent time and energy on making an interactive mechanic to steer away from the usual "push-a-button-and-wait" system used by many games, but forgot the detail that it would probably be helpful if said mechanic was fun at least. I much prefer the click-and-wait style of Eve Online (unless it has changed in recent years) because the current implementation is nothing but frustration. I tried it, and will never try it again unless it changes.

Implementing some kind of tractor beam or automatic ore scooping device to equip your ship with would probably be the easiest way to fix this mess. Doing something about the constant need to enter a menu to manage the refinery would help too, but is less important.
 
With a little research, you can be hauling palladium or platinum for 15,000-19,000 per ton and only needing about 4-5 chunks per ton. Is that little gain?


Actually yeah it is. Watch that video of advanced mining in this thread. The guys good at scooping and knows where to go to get the best chunks. He makes approx 170 k after mining 45 mins factor in travel time ... time you have to run/fight the pirates that show up.

Now in my type 6 I can make about 800k an hour trading on easy runs that aren't even the best. Now the real kicker is that as I progress and get bigger ships I now make 4 millions credits an hour doing the same runs. While the miner is stuck with no way to really progress. You get a bigger ship for mining your still stuck at the scoop/bin mini game.

It equate it adding a forklift mini game for traders. Lets say when you ordered your cargo you have to drive a little forklift on the station and manually load each ton.

I like the idea of drones and scanners for the bigger ships. That would go a long way to making it look like your progressing.


Auger
 
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