Am I the only one not understanding all the fuss?

[Sentenza]

So in the last few days I followed all the threads about PvP vs. PvE etc. and hey, I feel really stupid because I can't understand all this. I mean, this is a game where things will try to kill you, so exactly what difference does make if you are killed by a human or a bot? Yeah, sure, a human opponent will be more skilled than a bot, but relative skills only matter if you are in a gunship yourself - and if you are in a gunship you signed up to fight, so shut up and fight Conversely, if you are a trader flying a space truck any stupid AI-driven Viper will kill you anyway because you are in a defenseless space truck, so, what's the point?

Then I was introduced to the concept of 'griefing', whom I never heard before not being used to plau MMOs. Ok, I understand how this could be a serious problem, but - wait a minute, how it is supposed to happen here?
This is not a game with a limited, fixed playground where you could expect to encounter the same players again and again and again. Here we have a vast, almost 'infinite' universe where it is already uncommon to encounter any human player at all, let alone encountering some multiple times. And, from what I understood about game mechanics, players aren't even all in the same universe but the server will 'conflate' a number of players in the same 'universe' when they happen to be in the same 'place'. All this means to me that to encounter any given player twice you pretty much have to want it to happen, like going to a place where there's literally only the two of you around. And it does not end here: let's assume that a player kills you, and somehow wants to do it again. What would happen? Well, after being killed you would respawn in the station, where said player can't do anything to you because the station would kill him instantly. He would have to camp outside the station, well clear of its fire zone, and literally stay there forever not knowing when or if you're going to take off again, expecially since you could just switch to solo and go away unnoticed leaving just a big "@#$! YOU" greeting card on the pad Ok, he might try to kill you again should he encounter you again by chance somewhere, but then this is just the game, isn't it?

So in the end it appears to me that there is an enormous rage about something that just can't happen because game mechanics prevent it from happening in the first place. Huh. Am I missing something?

 

[Vagabond]

I don't think it's going to make any difference but I applaud the sentiment.

 

[gamecat]

Your not missing anything. Pvp is a storm in a teacup, griefing is impossible.

Players crying about griefing just because they got killed by a player is just that, crying. It's not griefing and it's easily avoided.

Good post OP.

 

[CMDR Cheknov]

So in the last few days I followed all the threads about PvP vs. PvE etc. and hey, I feel really stupid because I can't understand all this. I mean, this is a game where things will try to kill you, so exactly what difference does make if you are killed by a human or a bot? Yeah, sure, a human opponent will be more skilled than a bot, but relative skills only matter if you are in a gunship yourself - and if you are in a gunship you signed up to fight, so shut up and fight Conversely, if you are a trader flying a space truck any stupid AI-driven Viper will kill you anyway because you are in a defenseless space truck, so, what's the point?

Then I was introduced to the concept of 'griefing', whom I never heard before not being used to plau MMOs. Ok, I understand how this could be a serious problem, but - wait a minute, how it is supposed to happen here?
This is not a game with a limited, fixed playground where you could expect to encounter the same players again and again and again. Here we have a vast, almost 'infinite' universe where it is already uncommon to encounter any human player at all, let alone encountering some multiple times. And, from what I understood about game mechanics, players aren't even all in the same universe but the server will 'conflate' a number of players in the same 'universe' when they happen to be in the same 'place'. All this means to me that to encounter any given player twice you pretty much have to want it to happen, like going to a place where there's literally only the two of you around. And it does not end here: let's assume that a player kills you, and somehow wants to do it again. What would happen? Well, after being killed you would respawn in the station, where said player can't do anything to you because the station would kill him instantly. He would have to camp outside the station, well clear of its fire zone, and literally stay there forever not knowing when or if you're going to take off again, expecially since you could just switch to solo and go away unnoticed leaving just a big "@#$! YOU" greeting card on the pad Ok, he might try to kill you again should he encounter you again by chance somewhere, but then this is just the game, isn't it?

So in the end it appears to me that there is an enormous rage about something that just can't happen because game mechanics prevent it from happening in the first place. Huh. Am I missing something?

NPC's are very easy to get away from or destroy and any trade ship should be able to take a NPC out if they wanted to, no comparison to a human player at all. this si what all the fuss is about

 

[Robert Maynard]

This is not a game with a limited, fixed playground where you could expect to encounter the same players again and again and again. Here we have a vast, almost 'infinite' universe where it is already uncommon to encounter any human player at all, let alone encountering some multiple times. And, from what I understood about game mechanics, players aren't even all in the same universe but the server will 'conflate' a number of players in the same 'universe' when they happen to be in the same 'place'. All this means to me that to encounter any given player twice you pretty much have to want it to happen, like going to a place where there's literally only the two of you around. And it does not end here: let's assume that a player kills you, and somehow wants to do it again. What would happen? Well, after being killed you would respawn in the station, where said player can't do anything to you because the station would kill him instantly. He would have to camp outside the station, well clear of its fire zone, and literally stay there forever not knowing when or if you're going to take off again, expecially since you could just switch to solo and go away unnoticed leaving just a big "@#$! YOU" greeting card on the pad Ok, he might try to kill you again should he encounter you again by chance somewhere, but then this is just the game, isn't it?

There are two thrusts to the argument - the "if you don't like PvP, go play in solo" and the "the existence of solo and private group will kill the game".

If the latter squeaky wheel were to be successful, the advice in the former cannot be followed as all players would be corralled in the same open online mode.

 

[TannakaObi]

Look! PVP is bad M'kay!

 

[Slo-Mo-Shun]

Thank god, a positive thread on the subject. I was thinking about steering clear of the forum as its too depressing. Have some rep.

 

[gazzareth]

The fuss is entirely caused by certain people, largely proPVP, who don't want people to have the choice. From every poll on the issue they are vastly outnumbered by the rest of the userbase.

 

[yul7896]

I agree.

Yea, I don't see what the problem is either. I've played a reasonable amount since launch, and haven't even seen another player yet. If someone interdicted me, and blasted me, then it doesn't matter if its another player or NPC, if you get worked in a dogfight than either your ship sucks, or your flying sucks.

 

[TannakaObi]

The fuss is entirely caused by certain people, largely proPVP, who don't want people to have the choice. From every poll on the issue they are vastly outnumbered by the rest of the userbase.

What Dross!

It's the anti PVP that cause the problem, every precaution is made in Elite so you can not be griefed if you don't want to be. Yet people still go on and on about being griefed. It's pathetic!

 

[graeme.firth]

Your not missing anything. Pvp is a storm in a teacup, griefing is impossible.

Players crying about griefing just because they got killed by a player is just that, crying. It's not griefing and it's easily avoided.

Good post OP.

What this guy said

 

[Riepah]

There are two thrusts to the argument - the "if you don't like PvP, go play in solo" and the "the existence of solo and private group will kill the game".

If the latter squeaky wheel were to be successful, the advice in the former cannot be followed as all players would be corralled in the same open online mode.

I think a proper separation of Solo and Open would be best. People who don't want to be bothered by other people can play Solo and affect their own galaxy at their own pace, without having people in Open mode influencing their Solo play and making their efforts worthless. People in Online don't have to be scared of people safe-trading to insane wealth in Solo mode only to join Open to blast away people for the hell of it.

The current state of "switch at will" is diluting both game modes, in my opinion, hurting both the Solo and the Online experience. Let us have more than one CMDR and separate the two modes.

 

[N6MAA10816]

Yea, I don't see what the problem is either. I've played a reasonable amount since launch, and haven't even seen another player yet. If someone interdicted me, and blasted me, then it doesn't matter if its another player or NPC, if you get worked in a dogfight than either your ship sucks, or your flying sucks.

Agree yul! there is always someone better than you (it's avoiding them that's the trick! lol)

 

[Robert Maynard]

I think a proper separation of Solo and Open would be best. People who don't want to be bothered by other people can play Solo and affect their own galaxy at their own pace, without having people in Open mode influencing their Solo play and making their efforts worthless. People in Online don't have to be scared of people safe-trading to insane wealth in Solo mode only to join Open to blast away people for the hell of it.

The current state of "switch at will" is diluting both game modes, in my opinion, hurting both the Solo and the Online experience. Let us have more than one CMDR and separate the two modes.

Thanks for reminding me of yet another thrust to the argument (for the case where neither solo nor private groups are removed) - "do not allow commanders to group switch between online modes".

If this were to be implemented then players who are not sure that they would enjoy open would simply never play there as they would have to duplicate (or even triplicate) effort in progressing their commanders. So, a hard split between online modes would probably be more to the detriment of open than the other modes.

 

[erbal]

We should get a special sub-forum going for pvp/pve open/solo discussions, that way I could safely ignore them

I play open, but I've yet to be interdicted by a player.

In fact the only interdictions that are ever successful are the ones that I submit to because I've already checked out that the NPC is one that I can easily take and claim the bounty for. The others I simply avoid!


Overall these are pointless discussions whose only purpose are to act as a 'squeaky wheel' so that the PVP-focused players can force everyone into open (which will result in them being abandoned in open to play with each other).

I'm sure there will be people who don't agree with me, and that's fine, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion as I am mine.

 

[Sentenza]

NPC's are very easy to get away from or destroy and any trade ship should be able to take a NPC out if they wanted to, no comparison to a human player at all. this si what all the fuss is about

Why should a trade ship be able to escape or even kill a NPC gunship? That would be completely unrealistic. If a NPC can't kill a cargo while a human can't, then it's the NPC that's not doing its job and should be fixed, not the human doing anything wrong.

 

[Unpleasant]

So in the last few days I followed all the threads about PvP vs. PvE etc. and hey, I feel really stupid because I can't understand all this. I mean, this is a game where things will try to kill you, so exactly what difference does make if you are killed by a human or a bot? Yeah, sure, a human opponent will be more skilled than a bot, but relative skills only matter if you are in a gunship yourself - and if you are in a gunship you signed up to fight, so shut up and fight Conversely, if you are a trader flying a space truck any stupid AI-driven Viper will kill you anyway because you are in a defenseless space truck, so, what's the point?

Then I was introduced to the concept of 'griefing', whom I never heard before not being used to plau MMOs. Ok, I understand how this could be a serious problem, but - wait a minute, how it is supposed to happen here?
This is not a game with a limited, fixed playground where you could expect to encounter the same players again and again and again. Here we have a vast, almost 'infinite' universe where it is already uncommon to encounter any human player at all, let alone encountering some multiple times. And, from what I understood about game mechanics, players aren't even all in the same universe but the server will 'conflate' a number of players in the same 'universe' when they happen to be in the same 'place'. All this means to me that to encounter any given player twice you pretty much have to want it to happen, like going to a place where there's literally only the two of you around. And it does not end here: let's assume that a player kills you, and somehow wants to do it again. What would happen? Well, after being killed you would respawn in the station, where said player can't do anything to you because the station would kill him instantly. He would have to camp outside the station, well clear of its fire zone, and literally stay there forever not knowing when or if you're going to take off again, expecially since you could just switch to solo and go away unnoticed leaving just a big "@#$! YOU" greeting card on the pad Ok, he might try to kill you again should he encounter you again by chance somewhere, but then this is just the game, isn't it?

So in the end it appears to me that there is an enormous rage about something that just can't happen because game mechanics prevent it from happening in the first place. Huh. Am I missing something?

You've said being killed by a real player in no different than being killed by an npc. But...
You haven't said why you'd find it more enjoyable to kill a real players trade ship and potentially ruin days of play for them than it would be to kill an npc ship.

Yet another bias thread trying to ridicule people to become pirate bait lol

Also, explain why people are enjoying solo and PvE only groups more than open play? After all they can still be griefed, by your logic, by npcs, right?

I'd also find it offensive to be told I'm crying or raging or throwing my dummy out the pram simple because I express my opinion of not wanting to be FORCED into an unfair pvp match. i.e kitted viper vs unshield hauler.

 

[Sentenza]

We should get a special sub-forum going for pvp/pve open/solo discussions, that way I could safely ignore them

I play open, but I've yet to be interdicted by a player.

In fact the only interdictions that are ever successful are the ones that I submit to because I've already checked out that the NPC is one that I can easily take and claim the bounty for. The others I simply avoid!


Overall these are pointless discussions whose only purpose are to act as a 'squeaky wheel' so that the PVP-focused players can force everyone into open (which will result in them being abandoned in open to play with each other).

I'm sure there will be people who don't agree with me, and that's fine, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion as I am mine.

I can't see why people should be forced into open. I understand that there are people that just want to play "farmville in space" alone, but, isn't that what solo mode is for? Or maybe there are days when they want to fight and days when they don't, fine by me, I just don't understand complaining about being attacked by other players when being attacked is part of the game.

 

[Riepah]

You haven't said why you'd find it more enjoyable to kill a real players trade ship and potentially ruin days of play for them than it would be to kill an npc ship.

Maybe because a player may react differently to your piracy attempts than an NPC. All NPCs would react the same way, every single time. Players, not so much.

 

[BaldEagle]

OMG - what am I getting into?