What is your view on microtransactions for credits?

[Remiel]

[/COLOR]

The attitude of most fans of this game as well as the Devs is it doesn't really matter anyways. You can transfer between Solo, Group, and Open freely. There was no release wipe to fix all the cash won from exploits. There is no true way to compete with other players, and the few ways that it is possible, the game mechanics encourage you not to.

Sure we don't need gold/cred selling, but if someone wants to buy an Anaconda for $50 bucks, let them. Otherwise you are just leaving that money on the table. If it bothers you, just turn on the "I don't care about you" button that is Solo mode that everyone else does anyways.

Citation needed on your first claim.

And as a matter of fact, I do care. I care about player interactions and equal opportunity. There are OTHER WAYS (cosmetics, tonnes of cosmetics, even system naming rights for exploration) to implement microtransactions in a game like this that do not involve giving players an unfair advantage in open mode, which is there for a damn good reason, and if you don't care then I suggest you uninstall. But I do care, and others quite clearly do care, and nothing says "open mode killer" like microtransactions that give an unfair advantage. FD made this game to be capable of player interaction, it is one of the purported core features of this game, so I really have no reason to believe you when you say FD's attitude is, it doesn't matter, and every reason to dismiss that claim outright.

Make no mistake though, if there are microtransactions for unfair advantage items, I will not be going to solo mode. I'll actually be partaking of those purchases, going into open mode, and ruining everyone's game that I can.

 

[BigBadB]

On the contrary, while there may be no specific end-game win, easy credits removes any of the work that goes into progression. As a result, someone who spends a few bucks can have a fully upgraded Viper in a few hours, while someone who can't afford to spend the same has to put in the effort for a few days instead to get the same. Let's say they meet in combat while the latter is still getting around in a 'Winder with pulses, and they are equally skilled - how is it fair that the advantage goes to the player with the most RL money?

How is it even a game if you can just skip the effort that others put in and go straight to the best stuff in it? There's no barrier but credits to getting into anything - no skillpoints like in EVE, no rep like in GTA Online, you just get into whatever you want once you can afford it. Assuming the player doesn't tell you, how would you even know whether they earned the ship in-game or bought it?

That being said, I wouldn't be against microtransactions being implemented for one simple reason - I have a lot of money, and have no qualms spending it on the very best stuff, and then using said very best stuff to go on a massive rampage and show FD the error of their ways, if such a thing were to be implemented. I would not discriminate my targets, the very first player I came across would die, then the next, then the next, and so on and so forth.

As it is, microtransactions are for cosmetic items only, nothing that gives you an advantage over anyone else. And that's exactly how it should stay.

I don't think those of you who feel this way have really thought this through.

You meet someone in game (not exactly a common occurrence), and they have a bigger, better, meaner ship than you. How does it matter where they got the ship from? How is your play experience any different if the player earned the credits in-game, or paid for them?

Why is it fairer that a player with a lot of free time to grind can afford a bigger, meaner ship, but a player with less free time can't? How does it spoil your gaming if someone wants to skip earning the credits and just wants to fly around in a big, cool ship?

 

[Remiel]

That is actually my plan, or probably more like a skin pack every 2-3 months. I mean, I want to support the game, but it is not like we're running directly on their servers...and I am a cheap b@$+@rd.

I personally reckon it'd be worthwhile putting a voucher up on their store for "System Naming Rights". Not gonna speculate on a price, but, it'd be for explorers who find those 'unnamed' systems (eg Alrai Sector XX-Y a5-0 - systems like that and beyond the inhabited area) and scan them in full. Once you cash the exploration data in, if you have a voucher for naming rights, and the system hasn't already been claimed, you can cash it in and submit a name for moderation (submission goes to a dev team or something who clear the name within 24 hours or if it's inappropriate, ask you to come up with something else).

 

[BigBadB]

Citation needed on your first claim.

And as a matter of fact, I do care. I care about player interactions and equal opportunity.

If you care about equal opportunity for all players, then you should support buying credits - as that way, players with jobs and families would still have the opportunity to experience ships that otherwise they wouldn't ever have the time to earn.

 

[anikaiful]

If you care about equal opportunity for all players, then you should support buying credits - as that way, players with jobs and families would still have the opportunity to experience ships that otherwise they wouldn't ever have the time to earn.

That's no "equal opportunity" at all if you engage your brain - there's also people (lots of them) who aren't on $100/hour payroll.

 

[Remiel]

I don't think those of you who feel this way have really thought this through.

You meet someone in game (not exactly a common occurrence), and they have a bigger, better, meaner ship than you. How does it matter where they got the ship from? How is your play experience any different if the player earned the credits in-game, or paid for them?

Why is it fairer that a player with a lot of free time to grind can afford a bigger, meaner ship, but a player with less free time can't? How does it spoil your gaming if someone wants to skip earning the credits and just wants to fly around in a big, cool ship?

Oh I thought it through in great detail, because I'm not just thinking of myself, but the game as a whole and the experience of all players. It's not about how this affects just me, but everyone in the game, and the problem is, this would be exploitable by people with time to grind. Let me tell you what happens then - someone with time to grind who already has the best stuff gets tonnes of money to replace their losses just by spending some RL cash, then the guy with no time to grind, all he has is the ship he spent his RL cash on. The first player can do whatever with no fear of consequences because RL cash has covered his losses, the second not so much. The first has the advantage of both the grind AND the RL cash, the second doesn't. The RL cash gives an advantage that not everyone has the same opportunity to, the game gives equal opportunity.

No, having different amounts of time to play the game from other people does not negate the equal opportunity the game provides.

And make no mistake, I have both time and money, and I will apply both if MTs are introduced in such a fashion, and then proceed to demonstrate exactly why it's a bad idea.

And for future reference, don't accuse people of not thinking things through if the only qualifier for that is "think of how it affects you". Actually, I'll tell you exactly how this would affect me - it would give me a huge advantage over many participants in this game, including both those who have little money to spend, and those with little time to grind.

But seriously, if all you can think of when it comes to new feature ideas is how this affects you, then you probably don't have the game's best interests in mind, as a whole, and your ideas can probably be dismissed as a selfish personal agenda. In the case of MTs, probably a lazy one too.

 

[BigBadB]

That's no "equal opportunity" at all if you engage your brain - there's also people (lots of them) who aren't on $100/hour payroll.

I didn't mean to suggest it was a perfect solution, just that allowing people with money to access the same ships and equipment as people with time is at least 'fairer' than only the people with time being able to get them.

Sure, the people with no money and no time are still screwed, but that's pretty much the case either way.

 

[Remiel]

I didn't mean to suggest it was a perfect solution, just that allowing people with money to access the same ships and equipment as people with time is at least 'fairer' than only the people with time being able to get them.

Sure, the people with no money and no time are still screwed, but that's pretty much the case either way.

It's never a 'solution' to anything to give anyone an unfair advantage, perfect or otherwise, it's just a further complication. The game provides equal opportunity to all participants, whether they have the time to engage that opportunity or not is not the point. Sweeping changes to game mechanics should NEVER EVER be based around the personal lives of players. EVER. They should be focused on what makes the game better as a game.

 

[Captain Breton]

....I'd easily consider paying real money to get the ship I want without months and months of grinding the tradelanes.
Though I admit ,it would take some of the good feel out of truly earning a fantastic ship

I've made my first million (and lost it again as I lost some 300 000 worth of slaves 'cause I afk'd) but it does take days (or normal trading in a tiny Cobra Mk3 ...and I can only guess even longer in something like a Sidewinder)

As for pay to win? ......You can't win Elite Dangerous, even if I had millions in Frontier , I didn't win .
Selling Robots and Computers in the Sol system, bringing Luxury goods back to Barnard's Star was a safe and nice way to trade. The idea of winning Elite is an alien one to me, in a game that's litterally endless.
Though if you're one of those who wish to play MMO mode I can see why it's not a good thing.

Again, I agree buying credits (even through official channels) would not help the game in the slightest ....yet I'd be very likely to use such an opportunity.

 

[BigBadB]

Oh I thought it through in great detail, because I'm not just thinking of myself, but the game as a whole and the experience of all players. It's not about how this affects just me, but everyone in the game, and the problem is, this would be exploitable by people with time to grind. Let me tell you what happens then - someone with time to grind who already has the best stuff gets tonnes of money to replace their losses just by spending some RL cash, then the guy with no time to grind, all he has is the ship he spent his RL cash on. The first player can do whatever with no fear of consequences because RL cash has covered his losses, the second not so much. The first has the advantage of both the grind AND the RL cash, the second doesn't. The RL cash gives an advantage that not everyone has the same opportunity to, the game gives equal opportunity.

Again, if this were a strongly competitive, PvP-focussed game where one player's gain is another player's loss, I could understand the point you're trying to make.

But it isn't that kind of game. So I ask again, how exactly does it harm your experience (or anyone else's) if player A has 200 million Credits that they earned by grinding, and player B has 200 million credits they paid for? What possible difference does it make to anyone?

And make no mistake, I have both time and money, and I will apply both if MTs are introduced in such a fashion, and then proceed to demonstrate exactly why it's a bad idea.

How? I cannot think of a single thing you could do that would affect anyone any differently. Please explain.

And for future reference, don't accuse people of not thinking things through if the only qualifier for that is "think of how it affects you". Actually, I'll tell you exactly how this would affect me - it would give me a huge advantage over many participants in this game, including both those who have little money to spend, and those with little time to grind.

What advantage would it give you that you don't have already?

But seriously, if all you can think of when it comes to new feature ideas is how this affects you, then you probably don't have the game's best interests in mind, as a whole, and your ideas can probably be dismissed as a selfish personal agenda. In the case of MTs, probably a lazy one too.

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure how you've gained the impression that I have a 'selfish personal agenda'. I just genuinely don't see how people being able to buy credit would change the game experience for anyone else.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It's never a 'solution' to anything to give anyone an unfair advantage

What advantage, and why is unfair to anyone else?

 

[Marikc0]

As the majority of the people will argue that it doesn't matter what another person has in this game in respect to you, would it be fair to say that buying credits for real cash doesn't affect anyone at all?

There is no "win" in this game, hence it wouldn't be pay to win.

I would say anyone that does it or condones it needs their head cracked open. Micro-transactions, cash shops, etc should be limited ENTIRELY to things like cosmetics, ship voice packs, decals, etc.

....I'd easily consider paying real money to get the ship I want without months and months of grinding the tradelanes.

Games are 100% pointless if you didn't earn your way yourself. When you have everything, then what are you going to do? Quit. That's what you will do, because you will have nothing else to earn. Why cheat yourself like that?

 

[Remiel]

Again, if this were a strongly competitive, PvP-focussed game where one player's gain is another player's loss, I could understand the point you're trying to make.

But it isn't that kind of game. So I ask again, how exactly does it harm your experience (or anyone else's) if player A has 200 million Credits that they earned by grinding, and player B has 200 million credits they paid for? What possible difference does it make to anyone?

It isn't just a trading game either. It isn't just an exploration game either. Yet it has those elements available. The fact that the game can and will have competitive PVP makes microtransactions for unfair advantages in said PVP a bad thing for the game.

How? I cannot think of a single thing you could do that would affect anyone any differently. Please explain.

I can kill anyone and everyone I come across as often as possible until they run out of money. If they paid real money for what they're using, even better. It might make them realise it's not worth spending real money on if all they're going to do is lose it every time they try to do anything with it. There are a few other things as well but I can't show my entire hand. See, just because you can't think of how it would affect the game doesn't mean others can't. It just means you have not thought it through, all the nuanced effects that sweeping changes like this would have, are beyond your caliber to understand.

What advantage would it give you that you don't have already?

Lots and lots and lots of highly upgraded spare ships to reship to on the fly, depending on what I'm engaging, again, amongst other things. Again, you'd have to put some thought into it to understand how much easier microtransactions would make killing everything in sight for me.

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure how you've gained the impression that I have a 'selfish personal agenda'. I just genuinely don't see how people being able to buy credit would change the game experience for anyone else.

"I can't be bothered with actually putting the effort in for what I want but because I have money, I should just be able to throw some at the problem.... ohwait, I can't, I'd better demand that I can and to hell with the consequences for other gamers, I only care about my experience."

That's literally how everyone who supports microtransactions ANYWHERE sounds.

 

[Quineloe]

If other microtransaction games are any indication as to how much money will result in how many credits, I think we're pretty safe here. 250k credits, only $19.99! 550k credits $39.99
1150k credits $79.99! (best value!!!)

The very real question is still: how will this game finance itself in 2 years. What will be part of the paid expansions that will actually ensure players will buy them?

The fact that the game can and will have competitive PVP makes microtransactions for unfair advantages in said PVP a bad thing for the game.

This is still about credits for dollars microtransactions, right? You're not talking about a premium eagle with 6 hardpoints?

 

[RyanBurnsRed]

Maybe if they took the Star Citizen approach to it by limiting how much you can buy within a certain time period.
But it would still seem like pay to win to some people even though there is no winning to be done.

 

[Virgule]

>What is your view on microtransactions for credits?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Remiel]

...there is no winning to be done.

People keep saying this, but as long as you can have an affect on what faction controls any given system, there is indeed winning to be done. I'm not sure if it's willful ignorance or just plain thoughtlessness behind this assumption that there's no winning to be done, but that aspect of the game is very much a PVP aspect. If you're trying to influence one faction, and I'm trying to influence another, there is competitive PVP going on and there is going to be a winner and a loser.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

This is still about credits for dollars microtransactions, right? You're not talking about a premium eagle with 6 hardpoints?

If credits paid for with RL money can accelerate someone into a 'Conda that someone else would have to spend a few days grinding into, it counts as an advantage.

 

[BigBadB]

It isn't just a trading game either. It isn't just an exploration game either. Yet it has those elements available. The fact that the game can and will have competitive PVP makes microtransactions for unfair advantages in said PVP a bad thing for the game.

Okay, so at some hypothetical future time when some form of competitive PvP is added, how would it make anything unfair if some of the competitors have ships and gear they earned in-game and some have ships and gear they paid for? The ships and the gear are the same either way.

I can kill anyone and everyone I come across as often as possible until they run out of money.

And how would that be different if you were using credits you paid for rather than credits you earned?

Besides which, it's impossible to achieve (whether you can buy credits or not) without the consent of the other player. At any point before you bankrupt them, they could switch to Solo mode.

See, just because you can't think of how it would affect the game doesn't mean others can't. It just means you have not thought it through, all the nuanced effects that sweeping changes like this would have, are beyond your caliber to understand.

Yes, that must be it. Or maybe it's that you still haven't given me a concrete example of how it would make the game better or worse...

Lots and lots and lots of highly upgraded spare ships to reship to on the fly, depending on what I'm engaging, again, amongst other thinhs. Again, you'd have to put some thought into it to understand how much easier microtransactions would make killing everything in sight for me.

Again, how is that any different to what you could do now?

Imagine player A plays in solo mode, earns X million credits to buy all the ships and spares they want, then goes into open mode and starts blasting.

Now player B buys X million credtis to buy all the ships and spares they want, then goes into open mode and starts blasting.

Where is the difference? What is player B able to do that player A isn't that is somehow unfair or ruins the game for everyone else?

What difference does it make where the credits came from?

"I can't be bothered with actually putting the effort in for what I want but because I have money, I should just be able to throw some at the problem.... ohwait, I can't, I'd better demand that I can and to hell with the consequences for other gamers, I only care about my experience."

That's literally how everyone who supports microtransactions ANYWHERE sounds.

To you, that certainly appears to be the case. Of course, there couldn't possibly be any players anywhere in the world who love the Elite series and want to experience everything that ED has to offer but don't have the time to grind for the credits they need because of a job and family or any other reason. There's absolutely no one who would just like to buy an Anaconda to cruise around in solo mode and has no interest in open mode at all.

No, the only people who would ever buy credits and support the ongoing development of the game are lazy, selfish entitled morons. How silly of me not to realise.

(Incidentally, I'm not saying I support microtransactions in ED, or that I'd make use of them if they existed. I'm just interested in why the mere idea causes such knee-jerk reactions from some people.)

 

[Connatic]

It's not about how this affects just me, but everyone in the game, and the problem is, this would be exploitable by people with time to grind. Let me tell you what happens then - someone with time to grind who already has the best stuff gets tonnes of money to replace their losses just by spending some RL cash, then the guy with no time to grind, all he has is the ship he spent his RL cash on. The first player can do whatever with no fear of consequences because RL cash has covered his losses

See, the problem/solution here is Solo and Open mode are interchangeable. Which means the folks that have no money but have lots of time, can do the grinding in total safty of Solo mode, and come back into Open play with all that extra cash just to "grief" you. The player can do whatever he wants without the fear of consequences because RL free time covered his losses.

Time is just as valuable to those that don't have it.

 

[Quineloe]

If credits paid for with RL money can accelerate someone into a 'Conda that someone else would have to spend a few days grinding into, it counts as an advantage.

If credits obtained through playing the whole day accelerate someone into an anaconda that someone else would have to spend weeks on playing less frequently, that's just as unfair an advantage.

 

[fademist]

just no ....