Some help with the Rebuy / insurance Issue

[Blake_Dragon]

Hello my fellow commanders.

As it seems that, despite a lot of examples what/how not to handle your Ship's Re purchase cost here on this forum, it seems like there is almost daily someone that finds that stumbling block for one reason or another. Simple point is that Mr Murphy is running loose and *WILL* clobber you over the head with his law the minute you even remotely give him a chance. there has been discussions how and what all "needs" to be changed. some valid points have been raised and some of those discussions dissolved into another version of the trench warfare simulator with both sides stagnated, dug in and sniping at each other, not helping the actual issue at hand until a moderator comes by and smacks the thread closed.

So what can we do? Some have advocated to not let you take off even if under insured and others counter we have enough hand holding. both have its merits and *personally* i enjoy how it is as it does make me think about what i am doing and gives me some (additional) practice in fiscal responsibility.

Thinking on this a bit I gotten to think why not increase the visibility of the insurance situation and thought of a 2 part approach that would not be to obvious hand-holding but also may help some out.

Here is part one of it with two examples:

Spoiler

OK and Insured

Spoiler

not OK and Uninsured

Part two of this would include the utilization of the Info display on your main HUD, Similar to a seat belt warning in your car (for those who do drive) the screen could sporadically (say in 5 minute intervals) nave a warning flash on it (maybe even colored if that is a possibility to code that way) that goes something like "Warning, Insufficient Rebuy Funds"

Personally, I feel an approach like this would not smack anyone over the head with to much hand holding flashing arrows or pop ups before you leave the station, still leaves the responsibility for your actions in your hand (as in above mentioned example with the seat belt warning, you still can drive w/o if you so choose) and since its "technically" handled trough the ships computer it should not brake the immersion for those who value that aspect of the game highly (I believe anyway).

Now then, your input please Commanders, if y'all all feel i'm completely off my rocker, i'll head back to my porch and enjoy my popcorn


on a... unrelated note... would Mr Murphy please report to the Port-side Airlock #7? your Law has been found and is stored there, taped to the handle labeled "Release"

 

[Blake_Dragon]

Thought of something else while reading another thread. Add some lines of voice to the announcers on the stations like "have you checked your insurance? Make sure to cover your rebuy cost" things like that may help too

 

[Dabba]

Those all seem like good and reasonable ideas. Also maybe putting something similar on the purchase screen in the shipyard to warn players that are attempting to purchase a ship that they will then not be able to afford the rebuy on.

 

[Flavourless]

The people who get bitten by this seem always to know that they are flying without cover and think they will get away with it.
Not sure that warnings will help.

 

[hiur]

The penalty for not saving a certain number of credits in the bank when launching is a bit harsh. And it will sometimes affect people who would otherwise not be willing to take such risks, perhaps a simple oversight on their part. Been there myself, I know how easy it is so spend all the credits on cargo.
How to avoid people launching without sufficient funds to pay for the insurance?

What I would like to see is an extra confirmation dialog popping up as soon as you hit "LAUNCH".
The dialog would only pop up when you don't have funds for the insurance premium.
It would tell you that the consequences are that you lose your ship permanently if an accident was to happen.
It would say something about downgrading/selling cargo etc etc so that people know how to get funds.
With two buttons "Okay, I will get some more money before launching" and "I'll take my chances".

This way the people who lose their ship know that they only have themselves to blame. And we can have fewer sad players and more happy ones

 

[Blake_Dragon]

What I would like to see is an extra confirmation dialog popping up as soon as you hit "LAUNCH".

while over all not the worst idea to me that is just a little bit to much hand holding, personally. Provided, i'd never see that screen, i usually fly with 2 - 3 times the money i need to get my ship back (taken me a bit of finagling to get my re-buy cost above my funds to make the pics ) i rather not have another pop up "nag" screen but leave the player some responsibility to remember this fact. (not to much bubble wrap please )

 

[Ogidch]

I like the way the universe is harsh, but can see the arguments from some players who have lost everything as they didn't understand some of the dynamics. I never played Elite originally although I was 10 at the time, and still learning bits and pieces. The manual is really not comprehensive enough and lacks important information on some of the deeper aspects, like ship customisation for example.

The loading screen should have a federal/imperial or whatever warning stating "Wanted ships will be destroyed if discovered trying to enter starport stations" "Don't loose everything you have worked for, have you got enough credits to cover your ship insurance?" these little things should get the more observant newbies thinking at least, then if they don't and miss it, it was clear as day on the loading screen. This ins't hand walking them through it just giving them a heads-up!

What is needed is the implications of the certain actions need to be made very clear from the start, will save a lot of disgruntled posts in the forums.

 

[Neuros]

Just wondering how much hand holding do people actually want?

it's not hard to check if you are covered or not, and most people will only go out with out insurance and loose there 25 million credit ship once.

 

[Ogidch]

Just wondering how much hand holding do people actually want?

it's not hard to check if you are covered or not, and most people will only go out with out insurance and loose there 25 million credit ship once.

I don't think you need hand holding but making people aware, for example lets take 2 types of player:

Type A: Older player played the original Elite knows the score
Type B: New player never played the original Elite and is used to newer games (very general I know)
Edit also added Type C: Backers who have played Alpha, Beta and Gamma, who have experience of the development and been involved in the forums etc.

Now type A are aware of the pitfalls and the harsh universe, but type B are not. I like the game and read the forums and watched loads of videos before playing, but if I put myself in a new players shoes then I can see some of their points and some of the times they do simply want to have their hand held.

Type C players have been involved thought and probably know more. Some things I have only found out through the forums, but you shouldn't have to join a forum to find out about the game mechanics!

It's all down to communication in some ways and FD needs to make a few changes in this area. The loading screen should be used to good effect, and once the game has been loaded 15 times, the message can change from the critical ones I suggested to something else like tips i.e. make sure you have a large enough power plant or power distributor......blar blar.

 

[Zvanya]

The people who get bitten by this seem always to know that they are flying without cover and think they will get away with it.
Not sure that warnings will help.

We have a bingo. Those ideas would possibly be helpful to new pilots but it's not really new pilots that get bit hard by not having rebuy money.

No, it's always someone in at least an Asp. He knows better, but chooses to fly commando - usually because he wants that shiny new ship NOW, not after he has enough for rebuy. Then, after it goes south, he proceeds to the forum to make a new thread about how insurance needs to be fixed.

Insurance is fine. Greed and impatience is the problem.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

All well and good and all but to be honest I think some people might need it a little more obvious (going on previous threads), I therefore proposed the following;

 

[KillaALF]

Good idea, I like it. As for the confirmation dialog pop-up that Hiur posted - this could for example be implemented so that you would only see the pop-up for the first 5-10 uncovered launches or so and once you have those under your belt, it would cease to nag you.

 

[MadMarchHare]

/minchar

 

[Veldryn]

Pre-flight check.

Last check box: "Are you insured?" (Which key do we press for this one? ^^ )

People will turn it off after the first flight, of course, but he! At least they were warned

 

[Ogidch]

All well and good and all but to be honest I think some people might need it a little more obvious (going on previous threads), I therefore proposed the following;

Nice a subtle I like it....

 

[sqzbox1]

Nah - I don't think it needs changing. I would guess that everybody has died fairly early on in their Sidey and been presented with the rebuy screen. At that point the info is presented, they will have read it through because they will need to make choices and accept something so we all learn really early on about this process. Chances are we then try and run comnmando at some point, maybe after the first ship upgrade, and then Mr Murphy strikes and we curse ourselves for being stupid. We learn. After that we all do it sensibly - right? Except ... well, you get the idea.

The point is this - unless you are truly talented then you will have died fairly early on in the game when the cost is minimal and the rebuy screen at that point teaches us how it works. This happens at the beginner stage doesn't it? So there is no excuse for not knowing how it works and playing accordingly - it ain't difficult.

As for paying up-front - this has problems because we keep on chopping and changing our loadout don't we - all the time - and that changes the insurance rebuy numbers. If you pay up-front then you will have to make adjustment payments every time you go into outfitting and make a change no matter how slight - sometimes you might even get a refund if your trade down - weapons for example. and exactly WHEN would you make the payment? After each exit from outfitting? But what if you don't have the cash? And what if you just want to rebuy the ship - without the last loadout? When do you make that choice?

Nah - it's just fine as it is.

 

[schuesseled]

Hello my fellow commanders.

As it seems that, despite a lot of examples what/how not to handle your Ship's Re purchase cost here on this forum, it seems like there is almost daily someone that finds that stumbling block for one reason or another. Simple point is that Mr Murphy is running loose and *WILL* clobber you over the head with his law the minute you even remotely give him a chance. there has been discussions how and what all "needs" to be changed. some valid points have been raised and some of those discussions dissolved into another version of the trench warfare simulator with both sides stagnated, dug in and sniping at each other, not helping the actual issue at hand until a moderator comes by and smacks the thread closed.

So what can we do? Some have advocated to not let you take off even if under insured and others counter we have enough hand holding. both have its merits and *personally* i enjoy how it is as it does make me think about what i am doing and gives me some (additional) practice in fiscal responsibility.

Thinking on this a bit I gotten to think why not increase the visibility of the insurance situation and thought of a 2 part approach that would not be to obvious hand-holding but also may help some out.

Here is part one of it with two examples:

Spoiler

OK and Insured

Spoiler

not OK and Uninsured

Part two of this would include the utilization of the Info display on your main HUD, Similar to a seat belt warning in your car (for those who do drive) the screen could sporadically (say in 5 minute intervals) nave a warning flash on it (maybe even colored if that is a possibility to code that way) that goes something like "Warning, Insufficient Rebuy Funds"

Personally, I feel an approach like this would not smack anyone over the head with to much hand holding flashing arrows or pop ups before you leave the station, still leaves the responsibility for your actions in your hand (as in above mentioned example with the seat belt warning, you still can drive w/o if you so choose) and since its "technically" handled trough the ships computer it should not brake the immersion for those who value that aspect of the game highly (I believe anyway).

Now then, your input please Commanders, if y'all all feel i'm completely off my rocker, i'll head back to my porch and enjoy my popcorn


on a... unrelated note... would Mr Murphy please report to the Port-side Airlock #7? your Law has been found and is stored there, taped to the handle labeled "Release"

I didn't even bother reading the text and I yet i feel this suggestion would be of great use. That should show you how good your idea is.

 

[Perjoss]

nice ideas but the game has the word Dangerous in the title, right now I think it needs more danger, not less.

 

[Blake_Dragon]

All well and good and all but to be honest I think some people might need it a little more obvious (going on previous threads), I therefore proposed the following;

Spoiler

have some rep on that one, it almost made my coffee meet my monitor.
not sure tho , it might be to subtle a hint for some still.

I mean, yes, the information is out there and you can hardly go a day without seeing someone else fall over this and bonk his or her nose on the nearest bulkhead. quite often too people who *should* know better.

thing is I don't want to insult the people who do know better or bubble wrap the game to much, there are a lot of games out there that already do that and that little edge, it what makes, to me again, Elite entertaining. this is where my original proposal came from, something more visible, without taking the responsibility for what your doing away from you as a player. a small highlighting, if you will, of the status quo. Personally, I would like to have that bit of a danger remain there.

maybe instead or Rebuy that cost should be called Co-Pay, or Deductible , implying that the rest of the ship is covered by the Insurance, wonder if that would avoid some confusion.

In the end tho, i think that no matter what, if any, changes are done to this, be it a subtle highlighting, a nag screen or an in-your-face-interface screen like the above, in the end there still be people who ignore it, miss it (even if they hit in the head with it) and go out and wonder what just happened to their shiny new asp and then will tell us all about it on here, i think its just human nature, and probably won't change by the time the calendar actually reads 3301

 

[Ydiss]

Kudos for taking the time to post advice and +rep for rhat. Just bear in mind the players who fail to heed this advice are the same players that fail to read the official manual and/or know fulwell what risks they're taking.

As stated in the other thread, providing an on screen warning will serve to advise new players but will not likely prevent the big losses happening. The vast majority of players who play ignorant of the death penalty will find out how it works long before it becomes a massive investment loss risk. I seriously doubt even a tiny percentage of players complaining about losing millions did so due to ignorance of the risk.

You simply don't see that many threads from new players complaining they lost their Eagle and 50k investment because they didn't realise they needed to keep 3k in the bank. This is because the death mechanic scales appropriately for new players.

It's only players who have invested a lot of time into playing the game who complain and it only happens when they lose big. And I'm supremely confident that the volume of these players who were ignorant of the risk is approaching zero.

No hand-holding would change this. The death penalty in the game is well designed and allows complete control over the consequences to the player; given this fact, and combined with the inherent nature of people to ignore risks and take bad decisions, these complaints will never go away.