The obsession of being a "small fish in a big pond" - where does it come from?

[Dakkorie]

first off a billion credits in this game is like at most a 100k in the real world, you could own a yuppie house or something at best but that's just semantics.

My real point is against this over all notion of empire building. Go play eve seriously that's what they did they made it so you can start from nothing and build an empire, they worked out the logistics and even hired an economist to make sure the economy worked. This game... is not Eve. Eve takes place in space because from a macro economic view it's simplistic and infinite and nebulous. It's a perfect medium to sculpt and play with and all the while they shoved it full of lens flare and pretty pictures of space ships. Eve is not about space though, Eve is about Empires and businesses and Capitolism.

ED is about space, it's about you flying through space, it's focused on you operating a space ship. From the start ED is been focused on the smaller details about how you would go about living in a world like this. I love that I have to request docking permission every time I want to dock at a station, I love that I have to plot courses based on the capability of my jump distance and not through some sort of jump gate device that brings me to a linear travel path. I love that they are going to focus on planetary exploration in later releases. Conversing with people is very organic there isn't simply a chat system, if you want to talk to someone it's direct communication, 1 to 1, feels like you are hailing someone on Star trek or how they do it in Star Wars.

ED is trying to put you in the millennium falcon. You are just some schmo trying to get by looking for that next job to keep you afloat. You can be Captain Malcolm Reynolds! ED isn't about conquering the galaxy it's about living in it.

 

[deMangler]

Short answer: Because that is the kind of game the developers wanted to make. They made a game about being a spaceship pilot, not a conqueror. You're a speck in a vast universe, not the center of it.

I guess it is naturally a loaded question in the OP. But the above quote does sum up why I play ED. I love god games. Love 4x games. Love twitch games. Love sim games. Now I am loving ED because it is something else.

 

[Kayweg]

It's not an "obsession", it's just a nice change of pace from the ever common "you shall save the world, our mighty hero" approach, which has become rather stale to be honest.

It is also much easier to relate to, as it is much more true to everyday life as we experience it....only that this "everyday life" is playing out in space ships in a gorgeous galaxy.

 

[vulkman]

I quote this here because I like this quote. And because it fits. My guess is, some of the players are 40 year olds who played Elite in the 80ies and are running purely on nostalgia.
[h=1]“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.” [/h]I hope FD adds stuff these people hate, that would make the game better.

Yeah, bring on the quicktime events and the regenerative health, because these are pretty much the only things in games that are truly NEW to me... Dude, that's a load of bull. The idea of "The Tycoon" is almost as old as games, hell, Frontier actually MAKES Rollercoaster Tycoon, that's absolutely not the point.

But there have always also been first person simulations, where it's all about BEING a pilot or BEING a soldier or LIVING in the world of Luke Skywalker and Han Solo, but as a guy in the cantina, not as Luke. So to feel real, it would have to be a HUGE effort, meaning literally years of play, before you could build your own station, as it would take you decades in real life to do it, and I don't think there would be enough takers for that to merit the effort to actually implement a mechanic like this.

 

[Zenicetus]

There is nothing in the lore, nor in the previous games (Frontier, FFE) that would logically oppose the mechanic.

No, but there is plenty in the instanced P2P network design that make what you suggest impossible. The network model doesn't support large groups of players in the same instance, or territorial control by corporations.

What it does support is the option to support a pre-existing regional faction or one of the three major factions, on a collective basis with all other players in the game. Isn't that enough?

The benefit of the current design (which I know doesn't appeal to everyone) is that the game is still viable for a Lone Wolf play style, and for very small groups of friends. The minute a game shifts to the point where it's necessary to own territory as a large group, those play styles become invalid. You can't have it both ways. And luckily for those of us who enjoy the current design, that can't happen in this game.

 

[CMDR Cheknov]

No, but there is plenty in the instanced P2P network design that make what you suggest impossible. The network model doesn't support large groups of players in the same instance, or territorial control by corporations.

What it does support is the option to support a pre-existing regional faction or one of the three major factions, on a collective basis with all other players in the game. Isn't that enough?

The benefit of the current design (which I know doesn't appeal to everyone) is that the game is still viable for a Lone Wolf play style, and for very small groups of friends. The minute a game shifts to the point where it's necessary to own territory as a large group, those play styles become invalid. You can't have it both ways. And luckily for those of us who enjoy the current design, that can't happen in this game.

so what happens to the other 399,999,999,100, solar syatems then that are not controled? let us control them!!

 

[vulkman]

ED isn't about conquering the galaxy it's about living in it.

Perfect.

 

[boringnick]

first off a billion credits in this game is like at most a 100k in the real world, you could own a yuppie house or something at best but that's just semantics.

My real point is against this over all notion of empire building. Go play eve seriously that's what they did they made it so you can start from nothing and build an empire, they worked out the logistics and even hired an economist to make sure the economy worked. This game... is not Eve. Eve takes place in space because from a macro economic view it's simplistic and infinite and nebulous. It's a perfect medium to sculpt and play with and all the while they shoved it full of lens flare and pretty pictures of space ships. Eve is not about space though, Eve is about Empires and businesses and Capitolism.

It doesn't have to the overboard Eve way. X3's economics are far simpler and would make far more sense in the ED universe. In X3, the NPCs flying in the universe because they have an actual job and supply the factories. There's a reason to climb in rank with the various factions because you unlock ships AND assets.

In ED, the NPCs appear out of thin air. The goods appear out of thin air in the stations. There are pioneer worlds and corporate worlds, but you can't found your own smally outpost lightyears away despite having billions in the banks and the best rank in your faction... So incomplete and frankly a bit thoughtless. I am not talking about having the whole Eve or X3 experience here but ED seriously needs some elements from these games to truly shine. Not having them feels pretty.. inorganic, because the setting and lore almost demand them. Their lacking is one huge reason for all the "I am bored!" poosts. I know the network code makes it almost impossible to have these elements... a problematic decision in my opinion.

 

[CMDR Cheknov]

It doesn't have to the overboard Eve way. X3's economics are far simpler and would make far more sense in the ED universe. In X3, the NPCs flying in the universe because they have an actual job and supply the factories. There's a reason to climb in rank with the various factions because you unlock ships AND assets.

In ED, the NPCs appear out of thin air. The goods appear out of thin air in the stations. There are pioneer worlds and corporate worlds, but you can't found your own smally outpost lightyears away despite having billions in the banks and the best rank in your faction... So incomplete and frankly a bit thoughtless. I am not talking about having the whole Eve or X3 experience here but ED seriously needs some elements from these games to truly shine. Not having them feels pretty.. inorganic, because the setting and lore almost demand them.

If you didnt keep the 5 bill you got from ED you wouldnt be posting this

 

[Nomadski]

In FFE for example you got the thargoid missions because you traded lots of money and donated them to the Mic Turner memorial. Is that really so "chosen one"? You make lots of money and you buy friends in high places.. just like in real life.

ED is less realistic because all your trade and work is for nil. You can have the ELITE rank, be Earl and Admiral and have untold of riches in your bank.. but your influence is less than that of NPC #234232324. Doesn't make sense and robs the game of so much potential. I am NOT talking about being able to wipe out the empire and the feds, but X3 and Eve have factories and stuff not because its designers are so amazing, but because it's simply the next natural step in this genre. You traded enough money, you open your factory. Just like lots of people open their own shops if they get some money. it makes sense.

The adamant retro trip to the 80s ED is on harms the game in the long run. Discarding the ELITE sequels and the current competition (AND the ELITE lore of corporate worlds and pioneer colonies!) will bring no longtime benefits. These elements would give players long term goals and complex dynamics between player and their assets. Without this, the developers need to churn out content fast to keep the players entertained and keep them buying DLCs.. I don't see FD doing that either. Looks pretty much like this game is going to be doomed to be the original 80s Elite with nicer graphics.

Where do you place the ceiling then? In your argument, there will ALWAYS be a ceiling - just like there is in the X games, which I love. yes, you can build an empire of ships, you can build a network of stations....what then? Where do you go from there? If you play the game like this, any game for that matter, there will always be a case of "what now?".

Maybe it's better, in a game not designed for such solo expansion, not to go down that route at all?

 

[Perjoss]

I didn't read your whole post so i might totally miss the point, but games where you're the main hero and everything revolves around you are a dime a dozen. This creates a demand for the opposite.

 

[Zenicetus]

so what happens to the other 399,999,999,100, solar syatems then that are not controled? let us control them!!

It's a Han Solo simulator, not a Jabba the Hutt simulator.

 

[boringnick]

Where do you place the ceiling then? In your argument, there will ALWAYS be a ceiling - just like there is in the X games, which I love. yes, you can build an empire of ships, you can build a network of stations....what then? Where do you go from there? If you play the game like this, any game for that matter, there will always be a case of "what now?".

Sure, but this is an unavoidable problem. Even in Eve you will come to this point. The goal of any developer should be to postpone that point as much as possible, but it's not possible to remove it entirely (then you would have the PERFECT GAME).

Just because there is a ceiling, doesn't mean you should design a game to reach it effortlessly.

 

[CMDR Cheknov]

It's a Han Solo simulator, not a Jabba the Hutt simulator.

Its acually a "play the way i want to" simulator

 

[Kitiara]

I didn't read your whole post so i might totally miss the point, but games where you're the main hero and everything revolves around you are a dime a dozen. This creates a demand for the opposite.

It creates a supply - the demand was already present.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

It's not an obsession. It's just something I enjoy in this game. I like knowing that the person, the ship(s) is the extent of control other players have over the game itself.

 

[Zenicetus]

It's not an obsession. It's just something I enjoy in this game. I like knowing that the person, the ship(s) is the extent of control other players have over the game itself.

That brings up another point, which is the "small fish" design means pilot skill still matters. It's like an air combat game in that respect. If it comes to a fight, I can beat another pilot with a larger bank account if I can fly and fight better (up to a point, as long as our ships aren't grossly mismatched).

If ED was more of a spreadsheet factory management game like X3, where success is based on what you own and control, then individual pilot skill doesn't mean that much.

I want my skill as a pilot to be important in this game, and that requires a focus on the cockpit experience. I think that will translate to whatever FD has planned for planet landings and any FPS content down the road.

 

[gazzareth]

You can own stations, you just need the 42,000,000,000 you need for a basic outpost...

... seriously though, even if they ever make it possible it would be ridiculously expensive and people already complain about the cost of high level ships or upgrades - you would probably need to grind for several years in a Panther Clipper. Of course if they can be player owned then they would probably be player destroyable, wonder what the insurance excess would be on that?

G

 

[WalterHWhite]

'obsession', good bait.

 

[Udayana]

It came out of David Braben's mouth on an interview video when asked about player owned things that might be available in-game. Now, i can't remember which video that was and can't search for it right now (currently on mobile). If someone can link that video here? Thanks.

EDIT: i remember it now, it was the video on the kickstarter page, where he describe in detail what his vision for the game is.