PVP is not Griefing

[Vandaahl]

What OP is saying basically, is 'My reality' == 'Your reality', and it never is. What ever you shout down someone ear you think it is, Griefing is defined by the receiving end, not by the sender.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Griefing would be in a player was intentionally killing you repeatedly in a situation you had no control over.

It that the universally agreed complete definition of griefing?

 

[AlexRyder]

If someone is following you around the game and killing you repeatedly THAT is griefing. If the same pirate kills you repeatedly because you kept flying through the same system they are active in expecting something else to happen then it's called stupid and you aren't a victim.

 

[k1llm0re]

You couldn't be more wrong. ED is not 'a PvP game'. ED was designed as a player co-op game with a PvP element. PvP is meant to be 'rare and meaningful' (DB's words ref, Dev Diaries) and is not central to the game. Another quote from DB:

Originally Posted by David Braben live interview with The Register David Braben: It is important that players enjoy the experience. We are writing this game for ourselves, and the fun of the game is the most important thing. Player-player encounters should be interesting, and part of this is the ability to hide - whether from other players or AIs. Most of the ships you encounter will be AIs - and in many cases you will kill them - which is why we want the majority to be AIs. Generally speaking we expect players, even beginners, to be more of a challenge than an AI ship, and something that players will tend not to attack, but more cooperate with, and we are designing the bounty system (and others) to discourage PvP and encourage player cooperation.

i'd love to cooperate with you to accomplish something in ED... but ED has nothing for us to cooperate on. no content, no wings, no raids, hell, even the capital ship event doesn't encourage cooperation - it encourages me to blow you up so you stop hindering my progress.
when they implement something for us to cooperate together on, i'll be down. trust me, i'd love that.

but they haven't yet.

so, until then, i'm just going to kill you instead. hope you got enough for insurance!

cheers mate, and fly safe...
o7

 

[RedWizzard]

You have jumped to conclusions that i never wrote...

What? Let me quote your post again...

It's funny how its the players crying about one thing or another are always the ones who use terms like "kiddies" or "babies".

Was it your evil twin brother who put this little whine in your post?

Yet it is the people who dont like it that are calling for design changes.

Was it your evil twin brother that made this claim?

You chose the tone of your post and that tone was flamebait. Which is a tone that does not help you PvPer's cause frankly. If you're annoying and unreasonable on the forums why would anybody think you'll be anything other than annoying and unreasonable in the game?

Incidentally I noticed this post is almost a direct copy of your previous post on one of the numerous other threads on this topic. What happened, did you not get enough attention in the other thread? Starting new threads on the same topic is not helpful. Please stick to the existing thread next time.

 

[TannakaObi]

It's not possible to grief in Elite Dangerous. That is a statement of fact!

Maybe with the exception Interdicting continually, however even this can be easily avoided.

 

[timbow]

the ability to use an infinite number of free starter ships, which for many is a fully specced cobra

It's not fully spec'd (at least mine wasn't), you get 2 pulse lasers, better shields and then some discovery stuff (for the explorer Cobra at least).

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's not possible to grief in Elite Dangerous. That is a statement of fact!

Maybe with the exception Interdicting continually, however even this can be easily avoided.

Still an opinion though - which you quickly acknowledged was probably wrong anyway.

 

[Kyokushin]

It hard to be a pirate and do not attack anyone...

If someone do not want interaction of other, can enter solo mode, leave station, go to another system and go back to open....

... or he can call friends and show to pirate why he is wrong

 

[darshu]

What OP is saying basically, is 'My reality' == 'Your reality', and it never is. What ever you shout down someone ear you think it is, Griefing is defined by the receiving end, not by the sender.

No, Actually Im using logic. The designers spent years creating a game where players could kill and or pirate each other also known as Pvp. If someone kills you it is because people spent a very long time ensuring that they could also known as a game mechanic. If a player kills you on a trade route logic would suggest that he is camping that route. if you choose to go back to that route and he kills you again... you are only griefing yourself. If many different players are killing you that is not griefing either its just many players playing the game the way it was designed to be played.

 

[Shangra]

People are right, it's too easy to negate the downsides of criminal activity, reloading a new CMDR, wiping out bounties that don't even match up to the profit you got from the kill.

These are issues of balance and a current lack of game depth, features that will only improve with time. Being killed unannounced however, is not griefing, it's just the cold reality of space with a dash of the fact that you suck so hard you got killed.

 

[Maeko]

I can restart with Cobra or Eagle. Any kickstarter/pre-alpha backer on higher level that has a level including a ship better than sidey can do that. Every time a clear save is created you can pick up from selection of ships or a Sidey.

EDIT: everyone with preorder (merc edition) gets freegle with each clear save

And "exploit" is a term used loosely here, after all they "just" work within game mechanics and probably wont be considered by FD as exploit (they would have to shaft a lot of KS backers to close that one).

Thanks, good to know. Starting with a cobra vs a sidey obviously gives a good advantage, but even so will take a while to deck out the cobra.
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Some people are saying they are getting killed over and over by the same person, hence griefing. I am not sure how this possible really given how sparse the galaxy is in terms of human players. A friend and I spent 10 mins outside a station trying to find each other whilst sitting in the same room (turned out we were in different instances). I can't see how a 'griefer' could possibly kill the same player over and over given that: a) they don't know where that player will respawn and b) they may not be in the same instance.

 

[Skip Intro]

It CAN be griefing. Why don't you go look up the definition? Repeatedly killing and harassing the same person over and over is griefing

Not to pour oil on the fire, but given the nature of instancing it would be very difficult to kill the same player over and over again. The example given in another thread was that a trader lost two ships in a row, flying into the same area. That must happen in a very few cases.

If this was happening to the same player, over and over, then I agree, that is the very definition of griefing, consistently stopping a player enjoying the game. Getting killed by a player isn't the same thing, I think.

 

[Amaze]

It's not possible to grief in Elite Dangerous. That is a statement of fact!

Maybe with the exception Interdicting continually, however even this can be easily avoided.

Deliberately irritating and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways is very possible.

 

[TannakaObi]

Still an opinion though - which you quickly acknowledged was probably wrong anyway.

It's not an opinion, it's an observation based on the mechanics of the game. I can see how the interdiction could be used in an attempt to grief, but as I said even that can be avoided pretty easily and therefore is not a very easily used method. Basically, to be griefed on ED you would need to be mindless and not use any of the many tools provided to prevent it. As intended by the creators.

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Deliberately irritating and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways is very possible.

So go then, enlighten me?

How can someone

Deliberately irritating and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways is very possible.

before you answer, ask two questions, Can I block that player? Can I play on solo? If the answer to either is Yes, then griefing is impossible.

 

[Skip Intro]

Deliberately irritating and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways is very possible.

You can irritate a few players a few times by killing them, you cannot kill the same player over and over. I am obviously missing something regarding the unintended ways you mention.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's not an opinion, it's an observation based on the mechanics of the game. I can see how the interdiction could be used in an attempt to grief, but as I said even that can be avoided pretty easily and therefore is not a very easily used method. Basically, to be griefed on ED you would need to be mindless and not use any of the many tools provided to prevent it. As intended by the creators.

If there was a single uncontested definition of the term then you might be right - however there isn't.

Can I block that player? Can I play on solo? If the answer to either is Yes, then griefing is impossible.

That's like saying if you don't want to be griefed, it's up to you not to encounter the griefer.

 

[Jonny Quest]

Thanks, good to know. Starting with a cobra vs a sidey obviously gives a good advantage, but even so will take a while to deck out the cobra.
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Some people are saying they are getting killed over and over by the same person, hence griefing. I am not sure how this possible really given how sparse the galaxy is in terms of human players. A friend and I spent 10 mins outside a station trying to find each other whilst sitting in the same room (turned out we were in different instances). I can't see how a 'griefer' could possibly kill the same player over and over given that: a) they don't know where that player will respawn and b) they may not be in the same instance.

You may also start with some cargo and with downgrade of some components it is easy to deck out the starting ship with some dumbfire missles. This is all you need, no need to deck the ship for combat anything more, after all it is a throwaway save.

And yes, while griefing in it's most technical form is one player over and over runining the day for other one.. It doesnt have to be one player, it also can be a group. And a group of players using throwaway alpha-strike ships and throwaway CMDRs to destroy other players is borderline that. The throwaway saves thing makes it griefing - they don't play their commanders, they are using every technical resource in game to ruin the day for other players (considering how close Lave is to starting system - mostly noobs)

 

[TannakaObi]

That's like saying if you don't want to be griefed, it's up to you not to encounter the griefer.

Aye, that's exactly what I'm saying. Sadly we all know they exist and every precaution has been implemented to avoid it. Which is why it's irrelevant what your own definition is. The one defining thing about griefing is how that player makes you feel and any player can be avoided by any other player. How else can you remove griefing?

 

[Cidcaldensfey]

It's not possible to grief in Elite Dangerous. That is a statement of fact!

Maybe with the exception Interdicting continually, however even this can be easily avoided.

There are only three ways I know to grief in Elite: Dangerous.

1. Continuous interdictions without actually doing anything
2. Get someone to flag themselves as wanted so you can PvP/claim the bounty
3. Use free sidewinders and ram players

Now that I think about it, there may be ONE more way but this requires a lot of coordination amongst people. I think one way would be to economy grief. You would need a lot of people to strategically work the economy to take a massive dump and ruin the prices in core places where people are making lots of money. But the time and effort might be too much. Unless someone figures out a way to do it very efficiently, in which case it would probably be a viable method to grief.