Let's fix this Federal Dropship of ours.

[remosito]

Tired of complaining about how useless the Federal Dropship is.

Don't ask yourself what FD can do for you, but ask yourself what you can do for FD.


In that spirit I ventured to help them make the Dropship more useful now.


The main issue is, it is useless because the Python is so much better at everything. Especially Shield value. ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ES69Lc317U/pubhtml?gid=2011892275&single=true )

So I recreated the Shield Formula in Excel and tried around some values to bring balance.

Python has a rather insane shield coefficient of 390. Which makes it's shields the most powerful by a landslide. Adjusting that one to 250 brings it's max shields to a more reasonable 249 form the current 389.

As for the Dropship. It always bothered me that Orca and Dropship have same weight which is waay higher than even an Anaconda. That just "smells" of typo. Or somebody forgot to adjust the default value.

Lowering it to 380t from it's current 580t would bring it more in line with the weight of other ships ( http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Ships ). And by upping shield coefficient from the meager 200 to a more impressive 300.
One would bring it's max shield strength from it's current 147 to 288. more fitting for a Dropship whose defining characteristics should be shielding and armoring. Talking of armoring. 300 ain't bad, but not that much better considering it's still considerable weight. How does 350 sound?

I don't think a dropship shouldn't be an Eagle either. But maneuvrability of 0. Like a L9 seems extremely low! Could this be upped to maybe a still lumbering 2 (3?)?

Summary of changes:

	Hull Mass	Shield Coefficient	resulting max Shield	Armor	Maneuvrability
Dropship current	580	200	147	300	0
Python current	350	390	388	260	6
Dropship new	380	300	288	350	2-3
Python new	350	250	249	260	6

I think adjusting the OP Python and buffing the Dropship would create a niche for the Dropship that actually is worth buying. A well shielded and armored military ship.

Curious about y'alls feedback.

 

[Witzo]

I'm still wondering why there is a dropship in the game without space marines.

 

[salad]

I always thought the Dropship was a multipurpose ship because it could also work as a Passenger ship, like the Orca. Hence why we have Tourism economies in the Galaxy Map.


Maybe FD will add some kind of Ferry/Transport mechanics that will make Passenger ships useful.

 

[Sendraks]

I like your thinking.

I'd keep the weight the same and up the amount of armour the dropship has. I've no problems with the ship being weighty and flying like a brick providing cracking its shell is correspondingly tough. Upping the armour to around 400pts might do it? The shield increase could be more moderate then, maybe only up to 250pts?

I'd swap one of the medium hardpoints for a high as well. That would give the dropship more firepower which seems apropos for a military vessel.

 

[Hawkmoon]

I think the only thing that need changing is the armor value on the Dropship, it should be massive and that is why it has so much mass. I my mind it should be a real armor tank able to get troops down onto a planet under heavy fire, the Python on the other hand would be a shield tank as it is now.

 

[remosito]

I like your thinking.

I'd keep the weight the same and up the amount of armour the dropship has. I've no problems with the ship being weighty and flying like a brick providing cracking its shell is correspondingly tough. Upping the armour to around 400pts might do it? The shield increase could be more moderate then, maybe only up to 250pts?

I'd swap one of the medium hardpoints for a high as well. That would give the dropship more firepower which seems apropos for a military vessel.

The part of me that has to pay the repair bills kinda insists on good shielding apart of armor

Weight:
That current value is almost assuredly wrong! First of all it's 1.5x heavier than the muuuch bigger Anaconda. Second of all. It's heavier than the optimal mass of the biggest shield it can carry and takes heavy shielding penalty (through the erf error function used) for it.

I really doubt the military would accept a Dropship that is too big/heavy for the shields it can install... which brings us to it's main role. Bringing marines into combat zones on land. Anything landbased shooting at it has an easier time being heavy puncher than anything mobile. To me another reason for the dropship to have the best shields of all the combat oriented ships.

I fully agree on the lumbering part.

But I think that one is more determined directly by the maneuvrability coefficient each ship has than weight. So bringing weight down to a still hefty compared to other ships 380t won't make it much nimbler. that is pure speculation of mine as afaik nobody has cracked the agility formula based on maneuvrability, thruster ratings and weight yet...

 

[remosito]

I think the only thing that need changing is the armor value on the Dropship, it should be massive and that is why it has so much mass. I my mind it should be a real armor tank able to get troops down onto a planet under heavy fire, the Python on the other hand would be a shield tank as it is now.

The dropship is actually not very massive in the volumetric sense. It's medium landing pad sized. Way smaller than the anaconda or Clipper. Despite it's weighting 1.5x as much (and has less armor than the Anaconda). I am not advocating making the Dropship a light ship at all. It's still quite heavy compared to anything else out there currently. Even with my 200t reduction. (For example it's still 50t heavier than the bigger Python). It's just that the current weight of 580t is just plain wrong...

I doubt either any players or the military would accept the repair bill that lousy shields and only good armor entails.

And that in the end is my goal with this first and foremost. Turn the Dropship into something that is useful now. And any sane player might actually consider buying. Keeping the pathetic shield value of a 6M explorer ship (Asp) will preculde that.


And the tech for good shielding does exist as the Python proves. Land based installations the dropship will face will have a much easier time being heavy punchers than anything the Python faces. So shielding is important.

And I kinda disagree with you on the Pyhton. I quite dislike it being a shield tank. It's nimble and has crazy ass firepower. It's approach to combat should be eliminate threads fast.

 

[SteveMallam]

I'm still wondering why there is a dropship in the game without space marines.

So you can nuke the site from orbit?

Seriously, this is interesting as the Dropship was on my wishlist ahead of the Python until I read about its stats (and I'm currently an Ensign with around 35M net worth, so I'm on my way).

It really depends on what the role of the Dropship is supposed to be. I (like you, I guess) was thinking of it more as a heavy gunship - something with serious armour and firepower that would support smaller fighters in a major engagement. That's kind of what it LOOKS like.

An actual dropship, on the other hand, would be designed to get troops deployed on the ground. So it would be heavily armoured and shielded but probably NOT heavily armed and would be as small/fast as they could make it with sufficient passenger space. I'm thinking of Aliens, obviously!

What I *want* is the Federal Gunship

Edit *and a Fer-De-Lance

 

[Sendraks]

Point taken about the repair cost of armour. I suppose for the purposes of "background fluff" I have to wonder whether shields actually work inside an atmosphere or whether they have to be turned off in order to allow troops to disembark? Either of those scenarios would be a justification for why the dropship should prioritise armour over shields. This is also doesn't preclude FD introducing other situations where shields are not possible, perhaps the effects of fighting in a nebula or similar volatile environment which a combat zone might occur in.

Favouring armour, I'd also go with making many of the sub-targets on the ship harder to damage than on other vessels. Doesn't make much sense that a heavily armoured military vessel would have easily damaged sub-components, so disabling this ship should be very difficult.

Of course for the purposes of gameplay, that makes the dropship a bit of a lemon until such time as we have planetary landings and any scenarios which would present a distinct advantage for armour over shields.

Basically it is within FD's gift to create situations where the advantages of the dropship become apparent, rather than just trying to balance it with every other ship operating in every situation in the game.

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Lol @ OP
You just buffed it across the board and threw in a bunch of filler as well as making up a random balancing mechanic....

Just, no.

 

[remosito]

Lol @ OP
You just buffed it across the board and threw in a bunch of filler as well as making up a random balancing mechanic....

Just, no.

Why just no?

- Have you met a single player in a Dropship? Or ever heard of one that bought and kept one?
- In it's current stat form it couldn't even fulfill it's intended role. It's defenses are to weak to even make it to the ground into a combat zone.

I didn't buff it accross the board. I did not touch it's cargo carrying capability nor it's offensive capabilities, which are nothing stellar compard to cheaper Clipper or slightly more expensive Python. But at least that makes sense for it's purpose.
But weaker defense and offense compared to other ships makes it useless. I only buffed it's defensive capabilities. It currently has the max shield value of the Asp! A civilian explorer ship. The python has 2.6x times the shielding capability and double the firepower!

 

[remosito]

Point taken about the repair cost of armour. I suppose for the purposes of "background fluff" I have to wonder whether shields actually work inside an atmosphere or whether they have to be turned off in order to allow troops to disembark? Either of those scenarios would be a justification for why the dropship should prioritise armour over shields. This is also doesn't preclude FD introducing other situations where shields are not possible, perhaps the effects of fighting in a nebula or similar volatile environment which a combat zone might occur in.

Favouring armour, I'd also go with making many of the sub-targets on the ship harder to damage than on other vessels. Doesn't make much sense that a heavily armoured military vessel would have easily damaged sub-components, so disabling this ship should be very difficult.

Of course for the purposes of gameplay, that makes the dropship a bit of a lemon until such time as we have planetary landings and any scenarios which would present a distinct advantage for armour over shields.

Basically it is within FD's gift to create situations where the advantages of the dropship become apparent, rather than just trying to balance it with every other ship operating in every situation in the game.

I think you are way more optimistic about the root of where this terrible state of the dropship is coming from. Maybe it is indeed that in the long run there will be situations where shields will not work at all. But the Dropships armor isn't even that great. 30-40 (10-13%) more than clipper and pyhton. A measly 57% of the Anaconda. Which is 2/3 of the Dropships current weight. Despite being much bigger.

But imo, it's just that nobody at FD ever spent any time on making sure the values given to the newer ships result in effective values that make much sense. Or the person who did made a typo or two. Or didn't much understand the formula used to calculate effective shield strenght too much!

 

[Vincent Starson]

No no no no no no NO!

You do not balance the game by nerfing ships and buffing others. ESPECIALLY ships that I fly. No, my python doesn't deserve to lose shield rank to a dropship which is half as expensive.

Buff the dropship? Sure, bring it in line in usefullness to the Imperial Clipper. I am disappointed that the ship offered no reason (read: cargo hold size sucks on a DROPship? what?) to use it. It's silly that it has less space than the imperial clipper, imo.

 

[remosito]

No no no no no no NO!

You do not balance the game by nerfing ships and buffing others. ESPECIALLY ships that I fly. No, my python doesn't deserve to lose shield rank to a dropship which is half as expensive.

Buff the dropship? Sure, bring it in line in usefullness to the Imperial Clipper. I am disappointed that the ship offered no reason (read: cargo hold size sucks on a DROPship? what?) to use it. It's silly that it has less space than the imperial clipper, imo.

The Python is rather overpowered, wouldn't you say?

Even with my proposed nerf to it's shields.

The Python would still have 25% higher shields than any other ship apart of the Anaconda and my upgraded Dropship.


Btw, it's 2/3 of the price. Not half. For way less Cargo and offensive capabilities. And that's on base hull only. Those 20MCr are marginal if considering fully upgraded.


A nerf for the Python will come. I am sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

 

[salad]

I still think it is meant to be an Armored Transport Ship and they just haven't added the Transport Ship mechanics to the game yet. (Hence why we have Orcas)

 

[remosito]

I still think it is meant to be an Armored Transport Ship and they just haven't added the Transport Ship mechanics to the game yet. (Hence why we have Orcas)

It's not even well armored or shielded. So even if passenger mechnic were in the game. It still would be useless.

And I'd expect a military dropship to be able to ferry personell and cargo into combat zones. Cargo mechanic already is in the game. But the dropship sucks at that too currently.

And the armored only, but unshielded concept sounds good only on paper. Once you have to pay repair bills, which are enormous on expensive ships it sounds terrible. No matter really if you are a player, NPC or the military.

 

[remosito]

So you can nuke the site from orbit?

Seriously, this is interesting as the Dropship was on my wishlist ahead of the Python until I read about its stats (and I'm currently an Ensign with around 35M net worth, so I'm on my way).

It really depends on what the role of the Dropship is supposed to be. I (like you, I guess) was thinking of it more as a heavy gunship - something with serious armour and firepower that would support smaller fighters in a major engagement. That's kind of what it LOOKS like.

An actual dropship, on the other hand, would be designed to get troops deployed on the ground. So it would be heavily armoured and shielded but probably NOT heavily armed and would be as small/fast as they could make it with sufficient passenger space. I'm thinking of Aliens, obviously!

What I *want* is the Federal Gunship

Edit *and a Fer-De-Lance

Yeah, I think Gunship is what you are looking for. I do like me a dropship though that is more defensive than a Gunship and more transport oriented.


I would argue the Python currently fulfills that role. Even though it doesn't really look gunshippy in a classical sense. ;-)

It has massive firepower coupled with very strong shields.

 

[Sendraks]

I think you are way more optimistic about the root of where this terrible state of the dropship is coming from. Maybe it is indeed that in the long run there will be situations where shields will not work at all. But the Dropships armor isn't even that great. 30-40 (10-13%) more than clipper and pyhton. A measly 57% of the Anaconda. Which is 2/3 of the Dropships current weight. Despite being much bigger.

I wouldn't be opposed to making the armour value for the dropship even higher, especially if FD are going to balance the repair costs for bigger ships soon which would make repairing the vessel less of a pain.

It is a problem with the game mechanics at present that a high shield value is preferrable to high armour because of those costs. A hull or armour repair module would go some way to making the Dropship more desirable, especially if there were limits on which ships could fit it. Because obviously if every ship could fit the module then the advantage of the dropship is lost.

The generic fitting approach of Elite Dangerous does, at present, limit the ability of any ship to have a clearly defined niche.

 

[Mephane]

More likely the reason why we see so few Dropships is because many find it ugly, whereas its imperial counterpart is often regarded as the most beautiful ship in the game so far.

 

[SpiralRazor]

Tired of complaining about how useless the Federal Dropship is.

Don't ask yourself what FD can do for you, but ask yourself what you can do for FD.


In that spirit I ventured to help them make the Dropship more useful now.


The main issue is, it is useless because the Python is so much better at everything. Especially Shield value. ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ES69Lc317U/pubhtml?gid=2011892275&single=true )

So I recreated the Shield Formula in Excel and tried around some values to bring balance.

Python has a rather insane shield coefficient of 390. Which makes it's shields the most powerful by a landslide. Adjusting that one to 250 brings it's max shields to a more reasonable 249 form the current 389.

As for the Dropship. It always bothered me that Orca and Dropship have same weight which is waay higher than even an Anaconda. That just "smells" of typo. Or somebody forgot to adjust the default value.

Lowering it to 380t from it's current 580t would bring it more in line with the weight of other ships ( http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Ships ). And by upping shield coefficient from the meager 200 to a more impressive 300.
One would bring it's max shield strength from it's current 147 to 288. more fitting for a Dropship whose defining characteristics should be shielding and armoring. Talking of armoring. 300 ain't bad, but not that much better considering it's still considerable weight. How does 350 sound?

I don't think a dropship shouldn't be an Eagle either. But maneuvrability of 0. Like a L9 seems extremely low! Could this be upped to maybe a still lumbering 2 (3?)?

Summary of changes:

	Hull Mass	Shield Coefficient	resulting max Shield	Armor	Maneuvrability
Dropship current	580	200	147	300	0
Python current	350	390	388	260	6
Dropship new	380	300	288	350	2-3
Python new	350	250	249	260	6

I think adjusting the OP Python and buffing the Dropship would create a niche for the Dropship that actually is worth buying. A well shielded and armored military ship.

Curious about y'alls feedback.

Id have to disagree about the maneuvaribility. If this is actually going to be a "Dropship", as in dropping marines, those types of ships are always portrayed as being quite wieldy. It should be slower then the Clipper, but much better in a fight as its made to go into hostile areas as its sole reason for being.

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More likely the reason why we see so few Dropships is because many find it ugly, whereas its imperial counterpart is often regarded as the most beautiful ship in the game so far.

People would still fly it if it had good stats though, and some people even like the model.