Pirate Vs Experienced Trader -- Lots of Fun... but Sad too.

[CMDR Saunders]

Trader A - sacrifices all for cargo space. Stands a chance of getting nailed. Deserves it.
Trader B - Smart tactics, skills and loadout. Will escape.

What you are asking for is more of a chance against someone who has invested in and ensured they have minimised the risk pirate scum will run them down.

Working fine IMO.

If the interaction was over 60 seconds, I'd agree. This was 8 to 12 seconds. So, I disagree its working fine.

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Pirating players ?

I highly doubt that.

Tas

He isn't lieing. Just made 150k from about 40 minutes of pirating. Got to find the right system. Rares make the cash.

 

[Tigga]

Pirating players ?

I highly doubt that.

Yes. I measured my pirating last night and I was at 218k/hour profit (after repairs/ammo/integrety and 1 rebuy).

If I hadn't been stupid and boosted into somebody, killing me and probably them, it would have been 264k/hour. That's kinda the price of doing business as a pirate though it's rare for me. I also had at least 1 bad hour, because it seemed like 3-4 people in the system were all trying to claim my bounty (potentiall stream-sniping, dunno) and I stuck around rather than doing the profitable thing and swapping systems, so more is achievable.

I'll be casting again tonight.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

.

How does this technique fair against a pirate asp? Is it the same thing or will the asp's mass stop this tactic and enable better piracy?

No, an asp mass locks a type 6 at 18× I think. I've been pirating them in my asp since I got it, they can't escape easily.

 

[ScruffyBee]

Just pulled over a type 6 who was clearly very experienced. Had chaff, point defense, shields, and shield cell (from the look of the never weakening shields from the first volley). He wasn't trading necessary defense for more cargo space (fast cash) and he was hauling rare goods (scanned him) in the open. Major props to that; wish there were more like him.

The roughly 10 seconds I got to fire on him was incredibly fun and makes me realize why I love this game. This guy was hauling and he knew the dangers of the universe and he equipped accordingly. Threw out chaff, point defense destroyed my missiles, any shots incoming nullified by shield cell. He was ready to rock. Even though he got away, it was pretty damn awesome. This is how traders should be traveling and be ready for combat.

Of course.... this awesomeness was cut short by the fact that he submitted to interdiction and warped immediately away (3 times), essentially nullifying any chance of success against him -- thus cheapening the experience overall. Completely impossible to actually pirate a t6 or above in the current state of the game (any hauler that takes advantage of submit, warp, laugh technique).

It's a bit of a game spoiler at the moment and makes piracy far less fun when any juicy target can do this at will.

I am completely willing to lose these encounters and have the hauler get away (especially when he is so prepared like this guy was)... just want a bit more time to get the chance to succeed. 8 to 12 seconds (if your lucky) just isn't enough time.

How does this technique fair against a pirate asp? Is it the same thing or will the asp's mass stop this tactic and enable better piracy?

I personally hope they come out with FSD scramblers or something along those lines. Not permanent, but a 30sec to 2 minute delay, or something along those lines. Until then, I'll just grin and bear it every time I get a "submitter". Might actually open fire on those and not even give the option, because if you submit, you are likely going for that tactic.

Just want to hear opinions on this.

Saunders Out

Oh dear, how sad, the trader won. Never mind. I aplaud his clever tactics againgst the criminal pirate. One up for the traders.
Yay !!

 

[Splette]

... by the fact that he submitted to interdiction and warped immediately away (3 times), essentially nullifying any chance of success against him ...

While I have no problem with pirating in this game in general, I have to wonder what's the point of interdicting him three more times? He resisted and got away. Why don't you just let him go and move on to the next target? I don't want to call it griefing but it's surely irritating to be followed around again and again. Don't you pirates have any decency these days...?

 

[Tigga]

While I have no problem with pirating in this game in general, I have to wonder what's the point of interdicting him three more times? He resisted and got away. Why don't you just let him go and move on to the next target? I don't want to call it griefing but it's surely irritating to be followed around again and again. Don't you pirates have any decency these days...?

You don't get away until you get away. Getting away from one interdiction isn't getting away. Leaving the system and not being followed, or making it into a dock is getting away.

I often allow people to get away from one interdiction so that I can hit them again, this time with me in a barginning position they just can't refuse (ie. 5% hull left). It's much harder to do a proper negotiatin once the FSD is charging.

 

[CMDR Saunders]

While I have no problem with pirating in this game in general, I have to wonder what's the point of interdicting him three more times? He resisted and got away. Why don't you just let him go and move on to the next target? I don't want to call it griefing but it's surely irritating to be followed around again and again. Don't you pirates have any decency these days...?

Because some keep going straight and I can whittle them down to nothing. It might take 3 interdictions to get the hatch breaker to land and dump their cargo... it might take 4 for them to finally sur4render. I don't give up until he is gone... completely.

 

[Flying Penguin]

Sounds fair to me. Trader did everything right, adequate defences, did the right thing submitting, well oiled interdiction drill, trader escapes.

If any one of those things had not been there, or you'd been in a bigger ship, you'd have carried the day. Asking for a guaranteed opportunity to turn it into a firepower and manoeuvre contest (which you WILL win) gives the pirate a guaranteed I-win button.

 

[Hannalicious]

You're kidding right ?

Pirating is the least loved profession in this game.

It's virtually impossible to make a profit if you are only pirating.

I wasn't talking about the profit, I know it's usually not that great on an hourly basis (or maybe I was just a sucky pirate which is possible too). I was talking about the risk the pirate is taking, which is insignificant. Do you fear any damage being done to your ship by the trader at all? My guess is that you don't.

 

[Lir]

I wish more people would learn and play the game like this.

 

[Tas Devil]

I wasn't talking about the profit, I know it's usually not that great on an hourly basis (or maybe I was just a sucky pirate which is possible too). I was talking about the risk the pirate is taking, which is insignificant. Do you fear any damage being done to your ship by the trader at all? My guess is that you don't.

For a start you take damage just from successfully carrying out the interdiction...

And when you're in a larger ship it adds up.

Given you can't know whether some ship is carrying goods worthy of taking before interdicting them, you have to take the damage upfront along with it's cost even if the target isn't worth it.

There may not be any significant risk of dying per say but the profit is slim by all accounts and can be easily wiped with just one mistake or a bad run of unprofitable targets.

Tas

 

[Splette]

You don't get away until you get away. Getting away from one interdiction isn't getting away. Leaving the system and not being followed, or making it into a dock is getting away.

I often allow people to get away from one interdiction so that I can hit them again, this time with me in a barginning position they just can't refuse (ie. 5% hull left). It's much harder to do a proper negotiatin once the FSD is charging.

Because some keep going straight and I can whittle them down to nothing. It might take 3 interdictions to get the hatch breaker to land and dump their cargo... it might take 4 for them to finally sur4render. I don't give up until he is gone... completely.

I do see your points but I think this kind of irritating(?) behavior will make pirating in general more unpopular and may push more people into Solo, or if a critical mass of players are unhappy may consider FD to adjust the balance to make pirating even harder. Just my thoughts...

 

[Tigga]

I wasn't talking about the profit, I know it's usually not that great on an hourly basis (or maybe I was just a sucky pirate which is possible too). I was talking about the risk the pirate is taking, which is insignificant. Do you fear any damage being done to your ship by the trader at all? My guess is that you don't.

There's risk. A few of them:
1) Bounties: I have a bounty on my head 'cos piracy. To be fair, I could clean this with some money, but I chose not to 'cos I like risk. I've had plenty of people gunning for me. None have managed it so far, but plenty try.
2) Friends: A trader can run with friends. If you tell me you're gonna drop some cargo, while you're Asp/Python friend hops in on the wake, it can get awful messy for the pirate awful quick. Can't jump out 'cos mass lock, and booms from unexpected places are bad.
3) Fighting: Traders can fight back, though Type-Xs struggle.
4) No takings: Interdicting costs money, ammo costs money, time costs money. Shielded Type-6s are fairly low down on my hit list because of these costs and the fact that good pilots are fairly unpiratable.

Would I like to see more risk for pirates? Yes, actually. It'd have to be balanced out by more profits in the black markets though. If you think about risk:reward, while piracy may be lowish risk, it's also low reward. My personal pet idea is to significantly reduce insurance cover (coming from a Diablo 2/3 hardcore player, mind). Something like 80%, with maybe some cargo insurance would work. If I pay 4x on my rebuy, the risk goes up quite a bit. I'd also like the bounty system reworked so that it's not possible to simply pay it off.

 

[Tyler-Rid]

If anything, I'm asking for the hauler I-win button to be disabled.

The hauler doesn't have an I-win button.. get a bigger ship and mass-lock them.

30-120 second FSD Scramblers would just be an I-Win button for the Pirate as the Hauler would then stand almost no chance of escape without fitting and using shield cells, which would end up in repeated interdiction *if* they did manage to jump, until either the hauler runs out of shield cell ammo, or hauler bugs out the system. Fitting the FSD Scrambler you describe would mean no hauler gets away from a well-fitted ASP and above, ever, even with sacrificing even more cargo for shield cells.

Any change in cool-down time on the FSD following a submission also adds more chance of the pirate beating the hauler. If you ask for a longer cool-down after submission, the haulers are going to ask for a cool-down on the FSD Interdictor.

Swings and roundabouts on this one.. not sure what the answer is...

 

[ferret141]

I don't think you understood the post.

If anything, I'm asking for the hauler I-win button to be disabled.

And a pirate-win button to be enabled.

Evolve. Make friends. Get them to jump in on your wakes and run that Type-X's nose into the ground.

 

[Dabba]

The trader did everything right, he deserves to win. If you'd had the right ship then you'd have been able to mass lock him. No changes were needed in this instance, the trader deserved to win. If anything things need to be made harder on the pirates not easier, if they make it any easier then you're going to find even less traders in Open.

 

[CMDR Saunders]

So it appears the ASP does get around this problem. Fair enough. Was working toward that anyway. How long does the asp have to take down the target? Mass lock I mean.

 

[Hannalicious]

There's risk. A few of them:
1) Bounties: I have a bounty on my head 'cos piracy. To be fair, I could clean this with some money, but I chose not to 'cos I like risk. I've had plenty of people gunning for me. None have managed it so far, but plenty try.
2) Friends: A trader can run with friends. If you tell me you're gonna drop some cargo, while you're Asp/Python friend hops in on the wake, it can get awful messy for the pirate awful quick. Can't jump out 'cos mass lock, and booms from unexpected places are bad.
3) Fighting: Traders can fight back, though Type-Xs struggle.
4) No takings: Interdicting costs money, ammo costs money, time costs money. Shielded Type-6s are fairly low down on my hit list because of these costs and the fact that good pilots are fairly unpiratable.

Would I like to see more risk for pirates? Yes, actually. It'd have to be balanced out by more profits in the black markets though. If you think about risk:reward, while piracy may be lowish risk, it's also low reward. My personal pet idea is to significantly reduce insurance cover (coming from a Diablo 2/3 hardcore player, mind). Something like 80%, with maybe some cargo insurance would work. If I pay 4x on my rebuy, the risk goes up quite a bit. I'd also like the bounty system reworked so that it's not possible to simply pay it off.

I don't have a patented solution but I agree with your last paragraph for the most part. I mean, the risk for the pirate is not getting anything, having to pay the cost for ammo, some hull damage from interdicting, pay the bounty and... well, not much else really. The risk is very low and the profit is usually not that great since targets are not always abundant. In the same situation a T7 has a rebuy cost of maybe a million + maybe up to 3 million in cargo. The risk is substantial and it is pushing people to trade in solo. Blowing up the T7 carries a bounty of maybe 6k for the pirate which is not really balanced towards the loss of the trader.

Some balancing is really in order here since all parties are whining at the moment, and for good reasons Maybe there ought to be a better way of stealing stuff without killing the target = win/win. Maybe boosting the limpets in some way.

 

[Seonid]

Of course.... this awesomeness was cut short by the fact that he submitted to interdiction and warped immediately away (3 times),

So let me get this straight, you interdict a player and they get away and it's all "well played". Well obviously you didn't mean that as you then interdicted the same player 3 times in a row... so what was that you taking personal offence or simple hubris? And then, when your revenge didn't work as you expected, FORUMS HOOOOOOOOO! and you start asking for FSD scramblers and the like. How about, like all the successful pirates in recorded history, you choose your targets well?

 

[Sandmann]

Sounds to me like the T6 pilot did everything right. It's not his job to provide you with amusement... or cargo.