As long as this involves having to physically dock the two ships involved in the transfer, and takes time to complete, I'm fine with that.
The Wings discussion thread
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As long as this involves having to physically dock the two ships involved in the transfer, and takes time to complete, I'm fine with that.
Contracts - a solution for Wings.
Wings should be a "Contract" between a small group of players. The contract should set for 4 days, 7 Days, 14 Days, 28 Days. This would limit "gold farmer" transactions by making it a bit more messy for the farmer, while allowing group sharing of resources gained during the contract. so if one provided escort services then it can either be free, fixed or percentage based. Transactions between Wingmen could be don when in the same station. Bounties can be shared with the whole wing, ratioed at the beginning of the contract.
The Contract approach also pushes the whole ethos of the game of trading etc. in this case you could team up with a heavy trader as an Escort or Body guard for a fixed reward, all expenses and bounties, while the trader gets a safer run in to difficult systems. - New career - Escort (oh-er) or Bodyguard. Alternatively combat orientated Wings can agree a contract and share bounties and kill rewards in a share ratio and then the contract can be loaned to a faction for a fee. this way as a group you could build rep directly in conflict zones and be regarded as a "system authority ship" for the duration of the contract. The contract approach really advances the fact that all Commanders are self employed and come together for mutual advantage. Like wise Pirate groups can then work together say with a bit cargo carrier and some eagles and vipers doing the dirty work. When the cargo is ultimately sold they can all share the profit. It would even work loaning the contract to a faction for privateering against a factions enemy.
So summary
Contracts-
4 Days
7 Days
14 Days
28 Days
Loan contracts to factions for missions or war or privateering or have factions form Open available contracts that work on a first come first served basis. this allows Frontier to "balance" the war zones and manipulate the story as it unfolds by making the loosing side offer better and better contracts as they become more desperate. Capitalism or ideology?
Profit sharing -
Fixed payment Agreed pre contract
Percentages - Or fixed payment AND percentage
Bounties Last man to shoot, shared on percentage basis, Damage done, or shares basis with one share to the killer and one share equally divided amongst all wing members.
Transactions within the wing - immediate 5% transaction fee, which is paid out and spread amongst Wing, or 2.5% after 24hours "Payment processing". Being part of the wing allows you to make payment so why should everyone in the wing not profit from it, without them you could not do it.
Wing commander - initiator of Contract can either agree with friends or post a contract to the bulletin boards.
Feel this would solve all the potential issues and create an awesome facet of game play for anyone.
Wings should be a "Contract" between a small group of players. The contract should set for 4 days, 7 Days, 14 Days, 28 Days. This would limit "gold farmer" transactions by making it a bit more messy for the farmer, while allowing group sharing of resources gained during the contract. so if one provided escort services then it can either be free, fixed or percentage based. Transactions between Wingmen could be don when in the same station. Bounties can be shared with the whole wing, ratioed at the beginning of the contract.
The Contract approach also pushes the whole ethos of the game of trading etc. in this case you could team up with a heavy trader as an Escort or Body guard for a fixed reward, all expenses and bounties, while the trader gets a safer run in to difficult systems. - New career - Escort (oh-er) or Bodyguard. Alternatively combat orientated Wings can agree a contract and share bounties and kill rewards in a share ratio and then the contract can be loaned to a faction for a fee. this way as a group you could build rep directly in conflict zones and be regarded as a "system authority ship" for the duration of the contract. The contract approach really advances the fact that all Commanders are self employed and come together for mutual advantage. Like wise Pirate groups can then work together say with a bit cargo carrier and some eagles and vipers doing the dirty work. When the cargo is ultimately sold they can all share the profit. It would even work loaning the contract to a faction for privateering against a factions enemy.
So summary
Contracts-
4 Days
7 Days
14 Days
28 Days
Loan contracts to factions for missions or war or privateering or have factions form Open available contracts that work on a first come first served basis. this allows Frontier to "balance" the war zones and manipulate the story as it unfolds by making the loosing side offer better and better contracts as they become more desperate. Capitalism or ideology?
Profit sharing -
Fixed payment Agreed pre contract
Percentages - Or fixed payment AND percentage
Bounties Last man to shoot, shared on percentage basis, Damage done, or shares basis with one share to the killer and one share equally divided amongst all wing members.
Transactions within the wing - immediate 5% transaction fee, which is paid out and spread amongst Wing, or 2.5% after 24hours "Payment processing". Being part of the wing allows you to make payment so why should everyone in the wing not profit from it, without them you could not do it.
Wing commander - initiator of Contract can either agree with friends or post a contract to the bulletin boards.
Feel this would solve all the potential issues and create an awesome facet of game play for anyone.
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Right, can we all please stop pretending cargo dropping is going to be "fine" and acceptable forever?
Bounty hunting rewards have been confirmed; this will happen when wings are introduced. No, we won't need to sc to a station and mess about selling commodities for a loss. Please stop saying this is good enough. It's not. It allows the trading of cargo between players. That's what it's intended for.
Trading between players is in the DDA. So it's safe to assume this may eventually come.
But we don't need this for wings to work. As I said above, the primary reasons for wings will be combat and this will be covered by reward sharing. However, many players will like to form wings to trade together, mine together and explore together. For these scenarios, it should be possible to share all transactional rewards with your wing.
On the formation of the wing, the leader can set the share ratio for any transaction. 100% keeps all transactions local. 50% shares all transactions equally. 0% gives all transactions to the wing.
This should include:
1. Bounties at the point of kill
2. Conflict bonds at the point of kill
3. Trade profit - not loss - at the point of transaction validation
4. Exploration data at the point of discovery.
In order to share any transaction, the player must be in proximity, or docked at the same station. Bounties and bonds will be awarded only if damage is caused. Exploration data is shared if in the same system.
This is how it should work.
So, I offer to join a trader to protect them from pirates. I form the wing after we agree a 30% split. Any kill I get, the trader gets 70% and I get 30%. Every profit transactions, he gets 30%, I get 70%.
Or we might agree 50%. Or 70% because I'm only in a sidewinder so offer limited protection. It is up to us.
Bounty hunting rewards have been confirmed; this will happen when wings are introduced. No, we won't need to sc to a station and mess about selling commodities for a loss. Please stop saying this is good enough. It's not. It allows the trading of cargo between players. That's what it's intended for.
Trading between players is in the DDA. So it's safe to assume this may eventually come.
But we don't need this for wings to work. As I said above, the primary reasons for wings will be combat and this will be covered by reward sharing. However, many players will like to form wings to trade together, mine together and explore together. For these scenarios, it should be possible to share all transactional rewards with your wing.
On the formation of the wing, the leader can set the share ratio for any transaction. 100% keeps all transactions local. 50% shares all transactions equally. 0% gives all transactions to the wing.
This should include:
1. Bounties at the point of kill
2. Conflict bonds at the point of kill
3. Trade profit - not loss - at the point of transaction validation
4. Exploration data at the point of discovery.
In order to share any transaction, the player must be in proximity, or docked at the same station. Bounties and bonds will be awarded only if damage is caused. Exploration data is shared if in the same system.
This is how it should work.
So, I offer to join a trader to protect them from pirates. I form the wing after we agree a 30% split. Any kill I get, the trader gets 70% and I get 30%. Every profit transactions, he gets 30%, I get 70%.
Or we might agree 50%. Or 70% because I'm only in a sidewinder so offer limited protection. It is up to us.
It ends with constant comms about how you can buy credits for real money.
People with anacondas will begin grinding credits to sell ships for real world cash. It's a mini industry for many other games already.
Is it feasible for winggroup members will be able to influence systems more easily - maybe to the point where they actually start to run their own local systems and stations?
Not sure if the game mech can handle such things but the universe is large enough to not have any issues. A wing group could scan a system - pay for an outpost - skim money in taxation from the trading that takes place and then grow.
I would love to see the game evolve in this manner!
Not sure if the game mech can handle such things but the universe is large enough to not have any issues. A wing group could scan a system - pay for an outpost - skim money in taxation from the trading that takes place and then grow.
I would love to see the game evolve in this manner!
I look forward to money transfer between players and proper groups and don't see the problem. So what if someone wants to but their way to an Anaconda,, good luck as I honestly believe it is their loss, where is the achievement in that ? The beautiful thing about this game is that it is so big if I choose not to meet them then I don't need to. 
Being hassled by gold sellers, might be nice to have someone to chat to Although if it ended up like the initial period of ESO that wouldn't be acceptable.
Being hassled by gold sellers, might be nice to have someone to chat to
Although if it ended up like the initial period of ESO that wouldn't be acceptable.
interdict a a transporter, scan it, count quicly cargo value then open comms: Good day commander, i require xxxx cr (depend on cargo value) and you're free to go.
Making escort for cr.
Hunting PPL for credits. xxxx cr price + bounty pay off, if target are not wanted.
Helping Bros to get started.
and many more.
Hope that it will happen along the station storage, where i can put my goods and modules for later use.
Making escort for cr.
Hunting PPL for credits. xxxx cr price + bounty pay off, if target are not wanted.
Helping Bros to get started.
and many more.
Hope that it will happen along the station storage, where i can put my goods and modules for later use.
I think that money is the route of all evil in this case. Direct transfer of credits / materials will lead to poor behaviour and farming.
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Contracts that allocate % of bounty / trade profit (within limits) for individual sessions will encourage the game to be played as intended.
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Otherwise dropping cargo is laborious enough to prevent it happening too much. It a allows you to give a friend a leg up if they are new (or have neglected the golden insurance rule) but not THAT much of one.
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If this is combined with multiple CMDRS it coul lead to twinks with loads of money damaging other players experience for kicks with impunity.
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Contracts that allocate % of bounty / trade profit (within limits) for individual sessions will encourage the game to be played as intended.
.
Otherwise dropping cargo is laborious enough to prevent it happening too much. It a allows you to give a friend a leg up if they are new (or have neglected the golden insurance rule) but not THAT much of one.
.
If this is combined with multiple CMDRS it coul lead to twinks with loads of money damaging other players experience for kicks with impunity.
I love all the hypothetical situations being proposed here.
As it is, for this game to be able to survive long term player credit transfer will need to happen.
Yes there will be RMT, and it's up to Frontier to deal with it by banning accounts and removing assets from players - they have no qualms about doing this as we've seen over the exploit issues.
To everyone saying this game can't have transfers due to RMT - I assume you never leave the house on the off chance you might get rained on - or at worst hit by a bus?
As it is, for this game to be able to survive long term player credit transfer will need to happen.
Yes there will be RMT, and it's up to Frontier to deal with it by banning accounts and removing assets from players - they have no qualms about doing this as we've seen over the exploit issues.
To everyone saying this game can't have transfers due to RMT - I assume you never leave the house on the off chance you might get rained on - or at worst hit by a bus?
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Saying something the game needs cannot happen because it may lead to bad consequences is nonsensical. Instead, foresee the difficulties and head them off at the pass. Anything you didn't foresee can be dealt with as it crops up.
There are ways and means of detecting player bots. Even so, I'm not sure how you program a bot that successfully beats every pirate that comes for it, avoids friendly fire, can tell which bots it can safely kill and which it can't, not to mention how to program a bot to successfully pick up the randomly moving and distant mining cargo.
The only things you can do with gold is buy ships and cargo. You can't buy extra time like you can in other MMO's. There isn't a big enoough (admittedly more could come) supply of goods to fuel a grey market economy. Yes, extortion could be a thing, but that just makes the game richer. But remember, a player who extorts is wasting time he could be using to definitely use a limpet as the target flees.
Even though I'd be happy to demand protection money I know it would be difficult, because it means I have to keep a system or two clear of independent pirates, which even with a group as large as The Code would be almost impossible. So, extortion and protection money are hard to enforce.
In short, don't cripple the game with underthought out fears.
There are ways and means of detecting player bots. Even so, I'm not sure how you program a bot that successfully beats every pirate that comes for it, avoids friendly fire, can tell which bots it can safely kill and which it can't, not to mention how to program a bot to successfully pick up the randomly moving and distant mining cargo.
The only things you can do with gold is buy ships and cargo. You can't buy extra time like you can in other MMO's. There isn't a big enoough (admittedly more could come) supply of goods to fuel a grey market economy. Yes, extortion could be a thing, but that just makes the game richer. But remember, a player who extorts is wasting time he could be using to definitely use a limpet as the target flees.
Even though I'd be happy to demand protection money I know it would be difficult, because it means I have to keep a system or two clear of independent pirates, which even with a group as large as The Code would be almost impossible. So, extortion and protection money are hard to enforce.
In short, don't cripple the game with underthought out fears.
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edit: redacted.
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Without having a higher threat, I think wings will be fairly pointless
Im hoping for Missions against multiple apponents.
Im hoping for Missions against multiple apponents.
So basically what you are saying is that people, HUMAN BEINGS, who are so poor that they found a way to make money through video games, or at worst are tricked into it via criminal gangs, are so despicable to your game play experience that they should actually drown and die?
Please - go seek help if you really think this, I think you take video games a tad too seriously.
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As you have to pay £40 for each account, I think not.
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This. Very much this! It would make the forums less interesting though.
Fancy, never met actually human goldseller - just bots so far. Kinds of thinking the only human element in those are the ones who steal credit card info etc.
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So did a bot program and set up those bots? Or was it a human, who you suggested die in a tsunami?
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