Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Yaffle]

There have been several threads on the topic of switching between solo/private groups/open. This thread is going to be the merge target for all other threads on the topic, no matter how 'unique' the thread creator may think their thread is. Creating a poll is not unique.

Posting in here has some specific rules. While the topic is up for debate, any baiting, insulting or swearing will result in a direct infraction, no warnings, no nice private messages. Baiting includes dead horse references, use of the words "easy mode" or "carebear", accusations of griefing, and picture spam.

And so to business.

Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes':

1. Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play
2. Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in the same universe as all other players but will only ever see and be seen by others in the same private group
3. Online SOLO play where the player is in the same universe as all other players, but will see no humans (essentially a private group of one).

Players can switch groups at will without penalty or change to their character's statistics.

All players have an effect on the background simulation regardless of mode they play in.

Feel free to debate below...

Discussion summary​

You can see a summary of community opinions in Vox Populi: how do you think modes affect community goals?. Community members can each post one opinion in this thread, so it should be a quick way to see the range of opinions.

You can find developer posts in this thread starting here - click the Frontier icon in the top-right of a developer post to see the next developer post in the thread. Here's a list of the posts at the time of writing:

Will at any time solo and private group play be separated into a different universe/database from open play? It's kind of cheap that you can be safe from many things in solo, like player blockades and so on, and still affect the same universe.

No.

Michael

Thanks for that clarity Michael.

Are you in a position to confirm that group switching between the three game modes will remain as a feature of the game?

We're not planning on changing that.

Michael

Hi Micheal

I know you said that solo/group and open will always use the same universe, can you also say that there will be no specific perks in playing in one mode over another? i.e bigger profit from trading in open or bigger bounties?

None are planned at the moment.

Michael

Hello Commander Demiga!

Spoiler

Seriously, it annoys people. Solo has every right to do community goals - Yes, I get that there is an "unfair advantage" for solo players working a community goal VS. an open player.

Its a very easy fix by FDEV - Make it so that when a Solo/Private Group player turns in a bond for 30k (example) they get 30k in cash, but it only counts as..15k towards the community goal

Wheras the Open players can turn in the same 30k Bond, Receive the same 30k in cash, but it counts as 30k towards the community goal.

Its not so much about not letting this group do that with this, but just make the values weighted differently. Open, it is much harder to make that 30k than it is in solo, so it should be worth x times as much for the goal.

Is this a viable solution for anyone?

For anyone that can see my signature, I am an avid player of Solo/Group - but I really do hear, understand, and mostly agree with what the solo players are saying. I do want to start playing in open at some point. If anyone can give me a good reason as to why this wont work or help, then please explain...

P.S. I say very easy fix by FDEV, but honestly I have no idea. The concept is simple though

Edit - Sorry if anyone was offended by my tone or by the wording I used - had just read a very.....anger inducing thread about completely removing solo mode - Wont happen again - also - I want to reiterate that I fully support both SOLO and OPEN modes, and I believe there can be a great solution so everyone is happy in the end - aka this solution

Edit 2 - Again - I need to reiterate to everyone - This doesnt hurt anyone's personal finances, everyone will still make the same amount when they turn in a bond, everyone will still rank up within the community goal the same (top 70%, top 40%, top 15% etc) - The only thing this does is add a separate advantage to players who want to play in open - This allows them to affect an overall goal better than a solo player. This goal would be a NEW feature added in game if something like this goes through - It doesnt hurt the "advantage" of playing solo either - It really is a WIN-WIN compromise - I believe and fully support all 3 modes....

This is something that I'm considering.

There won't be any changes in the immediate future (our time is fairly booked up right now), but on face value it certainly seems plausible and maybe reasonable to me. I'll need to chew it over some more, obviously. I *believe* a change like this would be possible though (again, I'd have to verify that with team server).

Comments on this would be welcome.

Oh, but obviously, Commander Demiga, let's try and keep the temperature at a reasonable level . Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, as long as they do so politely.

Hello Commander jp josh!

Spoiler

how bout no....

i would like npc in wings to coordinate better in solo and wings of them be more common/hire our own wing to with our spare ships before we take your idea (for combat oriented goals)

for trading make pirates not just interdict but wait for you outside the station again we need to flesh out wings and ai a bit more.

exploring still exploring i don't want to see any type of reduction for explores community goals.

however i am open to the idea of boosting open play bonuses (when in that mode you get a 25% boost to all round profit but the number contributed stays the same)

id also like more range of community goals. (smuggling) where bigger ships are more of a hindrance than helpful so that way players in early ships can actually help rather than add pocket change. (friend tried to help in lugh even though all he had was a adder)

We've hopefully got a fix for Capital ship farming exploits lined up (provisionally for 1.3, but no guarantee).

What I took from Commander Demiga's suggestion was that there might be a consensus that activities carried out in solo mode are "safer/unfair" as there is no chance for other Commanders to oppose them.

I'm not going to take a side at the moment, because I'd like to consider it more.

It could definitely be seen as an attempt to entice folk into playing open, though if the personal rewards remained unchanged I'm not sure that this would be an utter evil.

Fundamentally, Community goals are about Commanders working together, in concert or in opposition. It does not seem completely unreasonable that for such elements we might encourage direct interaction more.

On the other hand, I'm wary of the precedent this might set, and want to make sure that solo mode always fulfils all the requirements it needs to, remaining the completely valid option that it is.

So this is something we would not consider lightly.

Hello Commander Jerakeen!

Spoiler

No, definitely not. Play your own way they said. Well if they punish me for playing my own way then I'll be very irritated. Why should I have to do twice as much to qualify for goal awards just because I choose not to expose myself to being mugged by Johnny McPewPew for my lunch money.

Seriously Sandro. Stop considering this. Very many of your players choose to play in solo and in groups. You'll be upsetting a very large section of the player base.

Possibly I could attempt a counter that suggests at the moment it is unfair against open play mode - you have more risks and challenges but only get the same rewards.

I take your point though.

Possibly, community goal thresholds, when it came to determining where each player sits, could be adjusted to ensure that solo players' actual amounts were considered, which I *think* would prevent any loss of goal rewards.

Like I said though, we'll need to chew over this some more when we get the time. Nothing is going to happen right away.

Hello Commander Demiga!

Spoiler

Sandro - Please read my edit in the original post regarding the tempurature - I apologize for that...was very heated atm lol

Thanks for the reply though - its just if you look at the core of all these issues,its that open mode is harder, so what is the incentive for a CMDR to play in open when they can farm in solo? Well, obviously, you cant make the bounties worth different amounts, that would absolutely enrage everyone.

So why not - in your Personal opinion, what would be some reasons as to why this wouldnt work?

Don't worry, no harm, no foul, it was just a helpful reminder!

I can't give you my considered opinions just yet because, well, I need a little more time to consider them!

But this is clearly an interesting debate, on both sides of the fence, so we will revisit it at a later date.

 

[adrinker]

Solo play vs outer system open play

Maybe I'm missing something, having never played solo play. I've been on the fringes of occupied space for over a week, and haven't seen a player since. Given the size of the Galaxy, why would FD even add a solo play option?

Are people just too lazy to leave the starting systems?

 

[Dabba]

Maybe I'm missing something, having never played open play. I've been on the fringes of occupied space for over a week, and haven't seen a player since. Given the size of the Galaxy, why would FD even add a solo play option?

This game was originally being developed with a single player offline mode, which is what a huge percentage of the kickstarter backers who funded and made the development of this game possible were after. When it was announced there would be no single player offline available because of the scope of the game and the technical limitations there was an enormous pushback from those backers, with very many of them threatening to withdraw their financial support and file claims of a bait and switch.

 

[AMcA]

Well, I've met someone roughly 4000 LY from Sol. In a system with three black holes
People are not lazy, but exploration is not that popular. You won't become rich doing it. You can earn money a lot faster with trading or even bounty hunting.

 

[Zvanya]

This game was originally being developed with a single player offline mode, which is what a huge percentage of the kickstarter backers who funded and made the development of this game possible were after. When it was announced there would be no single player offline available because of the scope of the game and the technical limitations there was an enormous pushback from those backers, with very many of them threatening to withdraw their financial support and file claims of a bait and switch. The Solo mode was a compromise made to keep those people on board, and without it its very likely this game never gets made.

Not sure where that information came from but it is not accurate. This was posted in may 2013

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5653

The relevant section:

Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited) with the following properties:
Players in this group are effectively indicating they want to be left alone and not disturbed by anyone else
By default group and friend invites are ignored but this can be enabled if desired
By default a player’s online status is hidden (set to offline) from others but this can be change if desired
A player in this group can still see when other friends come online and can message them
A player in this group can still receive messages from friends (possibly revealing the fact that they are online by virtue of return messages but still indicated as being offline)

Single player offline got canned much much later.

 

[adrinker]

Well, I've met someone roughly 4000 LY from Sol. In a system with three black holes
People are not lazy, but exploration is not that popular. You won't become rich doing it. You can earn money a lot faster with trading or even bounty hunting.

My system still has trading. I've done deep space runs in a sidewinder and netted 200k. I'm talking about independent/fed/anarchy etc systems, just not in the center of the empire. Solo play sounds like a huge waste.

 

[CMDR Texas Stu]

Maybe I'm missing something, having never played open play. I've been on the fringes of occupied space for over a week, and haven't seen a player since. Given the size of the Galaxy, why would FD even add a solo play option?

Are people just too lazy to leave the starting systems?

If you have never played open play, unless you are playing in private group with others, you will never see another player.
Perhaps you meant the opposite?

 

[Dabba]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elite-dangerous-drops-its-promised-offline-mode/1100-6423629/

As executive producer Michael Brooke explains on the game's forums (where some upset backers are asking for refunds), "the problem is that the galaxy mechanics all sit on the online servers. The data set and processes are huge and not something that would translate offline without considerable compromise to the vision. Trust me we didn't sit down and think what would annoy people the most! It's a choice we've had to make and so we've taken it."
In short, you can still play a single player mode, but the game requires an internet connection to sync up with the galaxy's shared economy.

 

[adrinker]

If you have never played open play, unless you are playing in private group with others, you will never see another player.
Perhaps you meant the opposite?

Fixed ��

 

[Tar Stone]

Solo play was always intended right from the beginning of the project. It was not a compromise for no offline.

 

[Dabba]

Solo play was always intended right from the beginning of the project. It was not a compromise for no offline.

Fine apparently I misunderstood the gamespot article. Single player was something that was promised from the get go though, and it was something that was always going to be necessary to get the funding to make the game, so at the end of the day the point still stands that the reason there is a Solo mode is because enough of the people backing the development of the game required the single player mode in order to back it financially.

 

[cmdrFox]

I play in my own private corner of the Open play Galaxy about 80ly from Sol . Occasionally see other Cmdrs usually at Nav beacons in Anarchy systems. I never seen another Cmdrs in SC there abouts.

 

[kungfubiker]

personaly speaking i have zero interest in open play...pvp has absolutely no interest for me nor do any other aspects....i have dipped in to "see whats what " as it were....and in all honesty...il stay solo....but then im an antisocial git at the best of times lol, but essentially Elite always was solo and thats why i bought the game...no solo = il say goodbye with a heavy heart

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

I think im gonna go back to Solo now. (PvP Actionz Story inside)

I played all day yesterday in open and about two hours today. But this last hour has been reading "bro hard" messages and being repeatedly interdicted by a sore loser. This was all fun up to part where im interdicted a million times and then it just got ridiculous.... I can do without this kind of "interaction".

When i logged back in i left myself in the NAV Beacon in Neto. I noticed another Clean Viper Commander and said "Yo" with no reply, oh well. I initiated combat with an NPC Dropship with only a 30k bounty and stripped away all its shields and ate half its health and then the other commander decided to join. I honestly dont care about the bounty because i have more than enough money for a hunter, i really just want to raise my rank at this point. Anyways, im using fixed beams and there is only a 300m gap between me and the dropship and the other Commander flies into my fire therefore i become wanted.

(this is where it starts)
*now enemy CMDR*
"Nice bounty..."
(uhh yea sure... i guess it is if you are 600 short of a Python)

He starts going blinky on my radar indicating hes shooting me now, which i was in the process of typing what had happended but since he was using 2 Small Gimbal Pulse and 2 Medium Gimbal Beams..... my shields were falling pretty fast. (Im also in a Viper) And since this happened before the Dropship died i now have system police, an enemy commander, and a NPC dropship spamming me with lasers. I get out of the NAV beacon... but not fast enough to miss a few messages stating.

Enemy CMDR:
"yea thats right, run *beep* and dont ever come back bla bla bla"

Me to myself:
U wut m8? That was not necessary. I fully intended on clearing my bounty and come back to patch things up but i think you need a spanking.

Im a hunter, i intentionally kit for PvP action, ECM and Chaff included. I know what he has and how to beat it. I dont clear my bounty, i immediately go back in the NAV beacon. This resets the Dropships hostility as well as keep the Police Off until im scanned again.
I start regularly popping chaff and using 'Skill Cells' (They are using them too) just before they disappear... i dont think i couldve cut it any closer before they fell.
The now enemy commander exhibited typical turreting behavior, probably had 3 pips in shields and 3 in weapons and more or less flew in circles and aimlessly spun in FA Off expecting their weapons to do all the hard work... well, gimbals only make up for so much. Eventually they slipped up and didnt activate their Shield Cells in time in turn letting me unleash....

THE FURY OF TWIN MEDIUM FIXED MULTI CANNONS!!!!

They immediately turned tail and attempted to run. They almost got away... until their Thrusters and FSD blew up at the same time leaving them to drift forever until they eventually went into the Sun. At this point i stopped firing to see if they had anything to say.... and OH BOY did they. Everything from "THIS GAME IS SO BROKE" "YOU ARE SUCH A BAD PLAYER BRO" "YOU SHOULD JUST STOP PLAYING THE GAME" and several kinds of expletives. And so i told them why i had a Wanted status and why things turned out the way they did and they were silent.

10 seconds later, they self destructed. Anything they had gained in Vouchers is gone, any missions left to be completed.... gone. Feels good knowing someone with a sour attitude get what they done got AND i didnt incur a 6k bounty.

At this point i already know whats going to happen. They are going to respawn, re-kit and resupply and keep interdicting me and keep spamming me with messages to try to illicit a response until they get some form of satisfaction. I only have 400 Rounds of Multi Cannon left (i was low when the fight started) and im not gonna go for a round two and attempt at killing another player who really isnt that bad of a fighter with just two Beams. Regardless of your alls opinion on the subject i keep a spare C1 Shield Cell for this type of occasion and plenty chaff left as well as ECM in case they fitted Seeking Torps. Because the one who lives to fight another day is the true victor, or something like that. Im interdicted i dont know how many times getting to the station but its going very slowly... The connection problems in SC are blatantly noticeable when i have no time to evade because im immediately brought back into space forcing me to submit every single time.

I know i need to actually jump to a different system at this point but i havent scouted the surrounding ones yet. I pick a random one close enough for a round trip (one i chose, no station fuuu) and jump out of system then back in so i can get a running start. It works and im now closer than i was before but still getting interdicted but i manage to evade one and make back into Citroen Hub.

Hope the story was a good read. Im just glad i could deliver justice in the name of CMDR DEAD HARTT (me ingame)

As they say, "If a noob rages in space, does anyone hear it?".
Yes, the answer is yes.

 

[Hazen]

This post makes me feel good

Awesome story +1

 

[Bit.Slade]

As they say, "If a noob rages in space, does anyone hear it?".
Yes, the answer is yes.

Good, screw players like that. They act all tough and then cry when they get spanked. You were probably fighting DSP for all we know.

 

[TaoZero5]

Yes, +1 rep for the good story . . .
and thanks for making a post that didn't just annoy me

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Yes, +1 rep for the good story . . .
and thanks for making a post that didn't just annoy me

Do i do that often or something? XD

 

[fergal]

Havent come across anyone being abusive in the chat yet, I'm sure its only a matter of time.
Its always a good sign if they use the word bro

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Havent come across anyone being abusive in the chat yet, I'm sure its only a matter of time.
Its always a good sign if they use the word bro

Ya. This is the first time ive seen someone talk this way. Im used to the stereo typical role player saying they are gonna skin me alive and roast it by the sun... but this was full on CoD Pre-Teen immaturity. lol