Frontier, tell me, who came up with those ideas. Really.

[GerminVermin]

You'd think that hanging out in the suggestions forum, you might have made some yourself at some point.

I have. Several. I just don't start new threads because the ideas I have area already involved in developing threads. I post there.

The OP's point wasn't legitimate at all and entirely deserving of criticism. Just because an idea is offered doesn't make it a legitimate idea or worthy of posting.

If you were intellectually honest about your claim about whether or not I make suggestions or support legitimate suggestions, then you'd know that I don't expect the game to never change. I entirely expect and hope that some aspects of the game will change, adding significant value to the product.

If you're going to accuse me of something, please do the reader the favor of starting with a premise that is true.

 

[norcus]

You'd think that hanging out in the suggestions forum, you might have made some yourself at some point. The OP's post was legitimate, well thought out, and offered ideas (even if he was a bit upset). If you have no ideas beyond "this idea's bad" without suggesting something else, why would you be here?

The insurance system in this game makes no sense (it doesn't even work like insurance). I think we all know by now that you prefer the game the way it is and hope it never changes... but it will. It WILL change. I'm SURE death penalty is something they're looking at right now. I hope it gets softened, and I hope a "hardcore" mode gets added for those who want. Everyone wins. At the very least, I hope the insurance system ends up more like insurance, where even if it can't cover the cost of your ship, you still get the credits up to the max loan value.

The insurance system works fine. The premium is built into the price of the item, you pay the deductible and get your stuff back. If you cannot afford your deductible - or if you are not interested, you are provided with a free complimentary sidewinder (ok its a loaner, but you can keep it for as long as you want).

The point is that when you accidentally boost into the station after spending all your credits on outfitting your new shiny ship, you get that horrible feeling "I made a terrible mistake!" and then you never do it again. It is a rite of passge in Elite, and does not need fixing. You never launch with less credits than the buyback ... Frontier will never change this part, it is too quintessential to the game.

As for corrupted exploration data suggestion (kind of buried inside wall of text)? To me it seems like an arbitrary death penalty mitigation suggestion. Based on a single event in that players experience. He explored lots of systems, took some bounties and then died ... now he wants his lost stuff back.

 

[SavingPrincess]

The insurance system works fine. The premium is built into the price of the item, you pay the deductible and get your stuff back. If you cannot afford your deductible - or if you are not interested, you are provided with a free complimentary sidewinder (ok its a loaner, but you can keep it for as long as you want).

The point is that when you accidentally boost into the station after spending all your credits on outfitting your new shiny ship, you get that horrible feeling "I made a terrible mistake!" and then you never do it again. It is a rite of passge in Elite, and does not need fixing. You never launch with less credits than the buyback ... Frontier will never change this part, it is too quintessential to the game.

As for corrupted exploration data suggestion (kind of buried inside wall of text)? To me it seems like an arbitrary death penalty mitigation suggestion. Based on a single event in that players experience. He explored lots of systems, took some bounties and then died ... now he wants his lost stuff back.

The insurance system should let you take the amount of the "max loan" without it arbitrarily being made unavailable to you if the value of your ship exceeds it by 1cr. It's a "loan" afterall... says so right there on the screen. I would go so far as saying that it should let you take the credit value of the ship instead of re-buying the ship, period. I've already made a thread about this.

Death penalties should be optional... yeah, I said it... optional... to a degree. You want to play on "I'm a badass" mode where you die and lose everything forever and the game uninstalls and your IP gets blocked or whatever... knock yourself out. There's nothing from stopping you from doing that now... just reroll. However... losing literal days/weeks of effort and starting back at square one with absolutely nothing... no game does this, especially no Online Multiplayer game that I'm aware of (Maybe EVE? That game is sadistic). The problem comes when one player wants a penalty imposed on another player just to make THEIR day worse. I've lost it all in this game... again, I've posted about this... it sucked... I got back up, I'm still not where I was. But I wouldn't wish that experience on someone else just because I had to go through it.

There should be SOME penalty, but that specific trap of "was short 102 credits, have to start over" is a pain. Lose your bounties you didn't turn in, fine... lose your unsold cartographic data... okay... lose your cargo, neat... but that has to come at the balance of like... getting your ship back, etc. Again, you want to run the game hardcore? You love that panic of "oh no if this goes wrong everything goes away forever!" Self-impose... have a blast. This game will survive by selling new copies of the game... therefore it has to be attractive to new players... that's just business. I have no problem with adding perma-death modes if you want to go that route... but at the same time... if something stupid happens at the wrong time, don't make someone start over just because you personally think they deserve it.

 

[GerminVermin]

The insurance system should let you take the amount of the "max loan" without it arbitrarily being made unavailable to you if it the value of your ship exceeds it by 1cr.

I'll stop you here and I won't bother reading the rest of your post since it's based on an entirely FALSE PREMISE. I'm guessing you lost a ship that you couldn't afford to replace and then didn't even bother spending ONE SECOND looking at the left-side interface for the ship insurance screen. Allow me to explain it to you in detail.

When you lose a ship that you cannot pay the premium for, you ARE offered a 200,000 credit loan. I've done it. Now, you STILL have to pay the premium for the ship chassis to get the ship chassis back. If your current funds plus the 200,000cr isn't enough to cover the ship chassis, then you don't get it back. Tough.

If you DO have enough between the loan and your current wallet, you CAN buy the ship back, but it doesn't come with all the expensive bells and whistles that you upgraded it with -at least, not for free. The entire left side of the interface is a list of all the modules you upgraded the ship with. You can choose the "include" or "exclude" option for each and every module you bought, which changes the premium which the game expects you to pay in order to get that chassis back WITH that module.

If you can afford the chassis and ALL the modules back, then you get your entire ship back (minus cargo). If you can't afford the entire ship, you can pick and choose what modules you can afford. The modules you can't afford will either be replaced by an empty slot if it's not an essential module or the lowest quality module (the crummy E's that you get when you buy the stock chassis).

So, even if you lose your ship and you can't afford to buy back the entire ship plus the modules that you just lost, the 200,000 credit loan is STILL OFFERED to you, allowing you to maybe salvage some of what you lost.

 

[SavingPrincess]

I'll stop you here and I won't bother reading the rest of your post since it's based on an entirely FALSE PREMISE.

Nope http://i.imgur.com/RomQg4Q.jpg

Maybe now go back and read the post instead of being obstinate?

In case the screenshot isn't clear enough:

If your ship exceeds the value of the 200,000 max loan, and you don't have enough credits to make up the difference, you get nothing.

 

[GerminVermin]

Nope http://i.imgur.com/RomQg4Q.jpg

Maybe now go back and read the post instead of being obstinate?

In case the screenshot isn't clear enough:

If your ship exceeds the value of the 200,000 max loan, and you don't have enough credits to make up the difference, you get nothing.

Your image proves that I'm right. You don't have enough money, minus expenses, for your wallet and the loan to buy back the chassis.

I don't see how you're confuse or what you object to.

You took the risk of flying in a ship that you can't afford to replace, even with the 200,000cr loan. Sucks.

 

[SavingPrincess]

Your image proves that I'm right. You don't have enough money, minus expenses, for your wallet and the loan to buy back the chassis.

I don't see how you're confuse or what you object to.

You took the risk of flying in a ship that you can't afford to replace, even with the 200,000cr loan. Sucks.

The point being, I should have the option to take the 200,000cr and pay back... which you would have understood, if you read.

 

[norcus]

Nope http://i.imgur.com/RomQg4Q.jpg

Maybe now go back and read the post instead of being obstinate?

In case the screenshot isn't clear enough:

If your ship exceeds the value of the 200,000 max loan, and you don't have enough credits to make up the difference, you get nothing.

You took one hell of a risk. Did you not know that you have to pay a deductible to get your ship back?

Anyway, 200k cr is easily made back in 2-3 hours in a loaner sidewinder ... I don't understand the problem.

 

[GerminVermin]

The point being, I should have the option to take the 200,000cr and pay back... which you would have understood, if you read.

You DO have that option, but if you CAN'T AFFORD THE SHIP even with the 200k credit loan, then there's no reason to take the loan. No, you can't have a Sidewinder and the 200,000.

 

[schuesseled]

When they put in cargo insurance, you might have a point op. But they haven't yet.

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The insurance system should let you take the amount of the "max loan" without it arbitrarily being made unavailable to you if the value of your ship exceeds it by 1cr. It's a "loan" afterall... says so right there on the screen. I would go so far as saying that it should let you take the credit value of the ship instead of re-buying the ship, period. I've already made a thread about this..

So.....You would like the option of 'sidewinder + 200,000 cr' ?

I'd prefer a deferred payment. Don't have the rebuy money, put that claim on a hiatus until you've done some fund raising.

 

[SavingPrincess]

You DO have that option, but if you CAN'T AFFORD THE SHIP even with the 200k credit loan, then there's no reason to take the loan. No, you can't have a Sidewinder and the 200,000.

Except this is how insurance works. If I have a $5,000 car, and my insurance only covers $4,000 of it, I still get the $4,000. Loans, even more, if you're pre-approved for a $20,000 auto loan, you might not be able to buy the $30,000 car, but you can still buy a $20,000 one.

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So.....You would like the option of 'sidewinder + 200,000 cr' ?

I'd prefer a deferred payment. Don't have the rebuy money, put that claim on a hiatus until you've done some fund raising.

That'd be a good solution too. Allow you to do the rebuy when you can make up the difference. I like that as well. As far as mine... I would say the loan "toward" a new ship would be a good balance... If you can't afford that Type-6 back... then you get 200,000 toward outfitting a Viper, or Hauler, etc.

 

[norcus]

Except this is how insurance works. If I have a $5,000 car, and my insurance only covers $4,000 of it, I still get the $4,000. Loans, even more, if you're pre-approved for a $20,000 auto loan, you might not be able to buy the $30,000 car, but you can still buy a $20,000 one.

Fair enough, but I think the risk of being dumped back in a loaner Sidewinder is such an integral part of Elite that any suggestion that removes this possibility it will not happen. Good luck though

 

[GerminVermin]

Except this is how insurance works. If I have a $5,000 car, and my insurance only covers $4,000 of it, I still get the $4,000. Loans, even more, if you're pre-approved for a $20,000 auto loan, you might not be able to buy the $30,000 car, but you can still buy a $20,000 one.

Irrelevant. This is not how the game works. It's not how the game was intended to work. They coded insurance to work this way for a reason. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's broken or should be changed.

That'd be a good solution too. Allow you to do the rebuy when you can make up the difference. I like that as well. As far as mine... I would say the loan "toward" a new ship would be a good balance... If you can't afford that Type-6 back... then you get 200,000 toward outfitting a Viper, or Hauler, etc.

What's the risk of losing your ship, then? There's no fear in losing your ship. There's no real threat. There's no incentive to be careful. There's no point, whatsoever, in insurance if this is the case. Remember, this is a game. There is challenge involved. There MUST be a way to lose. The way this game works is that, if you can't afford to replace your ship, then maybe you shouldn't be undocking with it.

 

[whammo11224]

I agree with a lot of what the OP says. If your fines and bounties (on yourself) are transmitted when you die, then so should your exploration data and bounty vouchers! It doesn't affect balance as you still have to pay for your ship and lost cargo.

 

[Adyaphede]

Frontier did. Basically you are asking the company why they made such bad design decisions... and yeah, that's not really going to work is it? They decided like this for gameplay reasons that they think are valid. Just because you personally disagree does not make their decision less valid or your own position valid. Both are simply that, opinions. The main difference being, they are the ones developing the game.

Right. So because it's my opinion, I should just shut it, because obviously, since I'm not working for Frontier, it's invalid and only theirs is the ultimate verity in all things Elite Dangerous. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

Makes you wonder why Frontier has made those forums available to everyone. Oh, probably just to ignore whatever is posted in it, just to appease the mob and let them vent. Right? I personally like to think they do want feedback. But that's just me.

What you are implying is that Frontier is god-like, they can do no wrong, have come to no wrong decision, have impeccable judgment and can only bring the utmost in gaming experience. That is probably why I have seen different GUI iterations on YouTube videos. Because obviously they've perfected their previous perfection. Yeah, that's probably it.

Instead, you come charging in here like a bull in a china shop with the attitude of "I know better than you"... you being whoever you are, FD with a long history of developing award winning games.

You know what, ill back FD on this one.

What you attribute to me I deny. I love the game and I think it would improve greatly if a balance would be approached concerning the death penalties. That is my only point. If I didn't give a rat's butt I would have scoffed then left without a second thought.

As it is, you get ALL the bad crap, but nothing of what you achieved. I am saying give us crumbs so we don't lose everything. The possibility of improving a game is always there, as long as the willingness to do so exist.

Obviously some people disagree. I'm ok with that, but my opinion still stands and apparently I'm not alone thinking that.

 

[Adyaphede]

I understand that my view on this is shocking to some, but please, those that feel that way, you've made your point and spread your obvious hate. Nothing forces you to stay around if all you do is bash.

Constructive criticism IS a thing. I like the game, but I want to see the death penalties properly balanced. Repeating ad nauseam that you disapprove brings nothing to the discussion. If on the contrary you have something tangible and interesting to share, by all means, do so.

 

[GerminVermin]

I understand that my view on this is shocking to some, but please, those that feel that way, you've made your point and spread your obvious hate. Nothing forces you to stay around if all you do is bash.

Constructive criticism IS a thing. I like the game, but I want to see the death penalties properly balanced. Repeating ad nauseam that you disapprove brings nothing to the discussion. If on the contrary you have something tangible and interesting to share, by all means, do so.

Yes, constructive criticism is a thing. We're giving you some.

 

[SavingPrincess]

I understand that my view on this is shocking to some, but please, those that feel that way, you've made your point and spread your obvious hate. Nothing forces you to stay around if all you do is bash.

Constructive criticism IS a thing. I like the game, but I want to see the death penalties properly balanced. Repeating ad nauseam that you disapprove brings nothing to the discussion. If on the contrary you have something tangible and interesting to share, by all means, do so.

Dude, ignore some of these people. Death penalties will be balanced at some point... more likely in favor of the player. This will make 98% of the people's experiences better, cultivate more interesting gameplay, more player interaction... and people like Germin and Nocus or whatever will sit back and talk about "the good old days before this game was filled with a bunch of filthy casuals" while the rest of us have a blast on our space-adventures.

People don't understand the concept of feedback forums and feel they need to speak out for the status quo, because they don't care about other people's enjoyment of the game, going so far as gaining enjoyment from other people's suffering. The developers never develop toward the desires of these types of players... because that's bad for business.

 

[norcus]

I understand that my view on this is shocking to some, but please, those that feel that way, you've made your point and spread your obvious hate. Nothing forces you to stay around if all you do is bash.

Constructive criticism IS a thing. I like the game, but I want to see the death penalties properly balanced. Repeating ad nauseam that you disapprove brings nothing to the discussion. If on the contrary you have something tangible and interesting to share, by all means, do so.

I have not seen any hate.

Anyway, in my opinion, death penalty is already properly balanced. If a large group of players encounter the same issue over time then maybe arguing a change might have merit. However, this post is based on a single event that happened to a single player once: OP lost some bounties and exploration data when his ship blew up and he "suggests" that because this is obviously a flaw in the game, a change must be made so that some exploration data remains along with bounties earned.

I disagree, and have argued why. I still have not found any counter arguments except that it sucks to loose stuff when you die.

 

[Robert Maynard]

From Sandro Sammarco (Dev) in another thread:

Hello Commanders!

Just in the interests of clarity:

Losing bounty claims upon ship destruction is to support risk versus reward game play - whilst there may well be ways to describe the process to make it sound plausible in terms of realism, this risk versus reward concept is the reason we made the game work this way, and in fairness, it's unlikely to change.