Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[ianstrauss]

Apparently its not that simple, because you have it all wrong.

When you are in a private group you are not in Open. You can't see anybody except the other people in your group. You will never share an instance with people that are in a private group you are not a part of. Solo mode is simply a Private Group of one.

I think you have it all wrong because what Im referring to all along is why enabling the switching of players to single player mode and open play at will is a gam flaw.

You come in saying that its all a core design and start posting quotes from the Dev about PRIVATE GROUP.

PRIVATE GROUP and " switching of players to single player mode and open play at will being a game flaw" are 2 different topics
We both agree that private grouping is an intended feature but what Im highlighting is a totally different matter

 

[Jockey79]

Shoot? I'm a trader with the rank of Merchant!

Really, cool.

You see lots of traders fighting to scrap / hinder / mess with solo players and private groups around here - they really want others to suffer the idiots and morons... now I must get back to work before Santa catches me slacking.

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I think you have it all wrong because what Im referring to all along is why enabling the switching of players to single player mode and open play at will is a gam flaw.

You come in saying that its all a core design and start posting quotes from the Dev about PRIVATE GROUP.

PRIVATE GROUP and " switching of players to single player mode and open play at will being a game flaw" are 2 different topics
We both agree that private grouping is an intended feature but what Im highlighting is a totally different matter

Solo is a pre set group of 1, that is all it is. You can do that yourself in the "Crate a Group" options and just not invite anyone in.

And it is part of the core design, you're just choosing to ignore it.

 

[Dabba]

I think you have it all wrong because what Im referring to all along is why enabling the switching of players to single player mode and open play at will is a gam flaw.

You come in saying that its all a core design and start posting quotes from the Dev about PRIVATE GROUP.

PRIVATE GROUP and " switching of players to single player mode and open play at will being a game flaw" are 2 different topics
We both agree that private grouping is an intended feature but what Im highlighting is a totally different matter

There is no single player offline mode. There is Solo, which is a Private Group of one person, that is still online, sharing the same background sim, shared galaxy, and shared economy. There is absolutely no difference at all between Solo and making a Private Group with nobody in it but yourself. Its the exact same thing.

Again, go read the very first post in the thread:

Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes':

1. Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play
2. Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in the same universe as all other players but will only ever see and be seen by others in the same private group
3. Online SOLO play where the player is in the same universe as all other players, but will see no humans (essentially a private group of one).

Players can switch groups at will without penalty or change to their character's statistics.

All players have an effect on the background simulation regardless of mode they play in.

As you can clearly see here this was intended, its not a design flaw or an exploit, it was meant to work this way.

 

[Beetlebum]

Shoot? I'm a trader with the rank of Merchant!

Yeah, me too! They allways come up with this silly pew pew "argument", because the have nothing else. I just love to defend my cargo against real players, who do not hide themselves in solo for the grinding stuff. I want to compete under fair circumstances.Therefore I would love to see a new mode where only people have access to, that don't switch. I too see the switching between solo/group and open, as it is now, as not so well game design.

 

[Dave1235]

That I shouldn't be able to play the way that I want to? Hardcore, but not too hardcore, is legit when people are allowed to play multiplayer, bot not too multiplayer, me thinks.

Since the inception of this game there have been options, (solo off line, I would have liked to have that too, but that's gone), online (we have), private groups (we have), solo online (we have, a private group of 1 person), Iron man (in the pipeline, not top priority I would think with "wings" not done yet, no one screaming I want iron man right now?), if people want a new option added the suggestions forum is the correct place to get it noticed.

If you want a group where people can't ever leave and everyone sees everyone else, put forward a case for it, I can't see it ever happening personally, (too much work to fill out the game for everyone else at the moment,, maybe in time, and most likely a year or more with stuff already "promised", I use the term loosely).

Your best bet at getting that mode is to start a PVP only group, no switching, FD can check the stats, if you can get a bunch of like minded people to join and only play in the pvp group and get that group to a decent size they may take notice of your request, I mean Mobius PVE is 2.5k, I think a good start as a baseline for them listening to suggestions.

Mmm start a new account PVP only OK?, in a "I can never switch mode", lose all my progress if I don't like it / change mind / get PK and lose all), with all the "wolves hunting sheep" out there, lol that PVP server will be a lonely place (unless you want to just fight other players in combat ships rather than traders).

Maybe they are bored of your cynism.

I pray they are, it would give us some bloody peace (but I doubt it), I am bored of people buying a game they did not research, then complaining its not the game they wanted (OK I could deal with that), but then to try and change it, get real! I know what I bought!, guess what, its what I wanted!, funny that, there is still a possibility that this (mod created thread) is just a black hole for all this Grrr (no infractions here pls) "stuff" to disappear into.

Well I am off to the eve forums to tell them how they screwed up their game, need a pve only mode and inform them of how their game is going to fail unless they make it more like ED they will get get rubbish reviews and the company is going to fail.

I reserve the right to accuse their dev team of incompetence, poor design decisions, smelling of cheese, looking generally ugly, stupidity, miscommunication, and I may even start a class action against them for taking a Christmas break.

Mmm, maybe its a game (a great one at that) but still a game, something we do for fun, It appears a few people bought "the wrong one", never mind they will work it out eventually.

Edit
Bold on first quote is my reply, some how the "quotes" got mixed up

 

[Jockey79]

As you can clearly see here this was intended, its not a design flaw or an exploit, it was meant to work this way.

All of this stuff (KS info, DDA, Dev Diary etc) should be required reading/ viewing - complete with an exam at the end, before people are allowed to post on the forums.

 

[Dabba]

I pray they are, it would give us some bloody peace (but I doubt it), I am bored of people buying a game they did not research, then complaining its not the game they wanted (OK I could deal with that), but then to try and change it, get real! I know what I bought!, guess what, its what I wanted!, funny that, there is still a possibility that this (mod created thread) is just a black hole for all this Grrr (no infractions here pls) "stuff" to disappear into.

Considering that this same exact debate has been going on for a year without any changes being made to Frontiers core design philosophy of player choice Id say its much closer to a certainty than a possibility.

All of this stuff (KS info, DDA, Dev Diary etc) should be required reading/ viewing - complete with an exam at the end, before people are allowed to post on the forums.

Yes, genius. Get that in the suggestion forum post haste.

 

[Jockey79]

Considering that this same exact debate has been going on for a year without any changes being made to Frontiers core design philosophy of player choice Id say its much closer to a certainty than a possibility.

Hey, you don't suppose this thread is the forum equivalent of Open Mode?

 

[Dabba]

Hey, you don't suppose this thread is the forum equivalent of Open Mode?

I think its more like a Private Group composed of people that didn't research what they were buying first and people with large reserves of patience trying to explain to them what they bought and how it came to be that way, in the interest of protecting everyone else in Open Forum from the sheer ridiculousness of it all.

 

[Dave1235]

All of this stuff (KS info, DDA, Dev Diary etc) should be required reading/ viewing - complete with an exam at the end, before people are allowed to post on the forums.

Rofl, yes maybe it should.

I wish I could find the exact quote (from this forum) but its about this.....

"At the risk of repeating myself, you need to go to forum > settings and set IQ level to the lowest setting"

I am glad the DDF & Dev posts (from KS too) were quoted here , but there is one thing that might put a stake in the heart of this vampire.

Can someone please post a link to the Dev diary where David Braben OBE, the main shareholder, founder of the company, top dog, (the chap who his making the game that he wants to play) says (not exact quote), "PVP will be rare & ??"

I have watched it a couple of times but can't remember which Dev diary it is in.

 

[Dave1235]

I think its more like a Private Group composed of people that didn't research what they were buying first and people with large reserves of patience trying to explain to them what they bought and how it came to be that way, in the interest of protecting everyone else in Open Forum from the sheer ridiculousness of it all.

Rofl, I think you are right its a black hole introduced to the forum to attract the "of course I didn't research it, but its broken, fix it now" matter, something needs to remove it from this (forum) universe.

 

[eeps]

Hey, you don't suppose this thread is the forum equivalent of Open Mode?

Its funny you say that, because when playing in a group I usually have the forums open on a second screen... and as it updates and the hate-speech and snide innuendos flow forth from our pvp/open bretheren, it serves as a constant reminder not to join open play.

 

[Amaze]

Reason for Editing: no delete post option

 

[gumbie]

Seems like you guys are finally starting to get it. More options are always good. We all have plenty of options. Everyone wins.

I am beginning to think more options are not always good. I think open and solo are holding each other back.

We could have had a great single player game, a great multiplayer game or this hybrid monstrosity.

 

[eeps]

I think you have it all wrong because what Im referring to all along is why enabling the switching of players to single player mode and open play at will is a gam flaw.

In your opinion.

In the opinion of the people who designed, coded and released this game,they refer to it as : a feature

Well might you think its a 'flaw', in the same way that I think sesame seeds on a big mac are a 'flaw', but both FD and McD's intended on their product being like that.
It might change, and thats fine by me, its one less thing for people to whinge about, but it wont make any difference to most people playing in groups..

 

[Jockey79]

From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*

From the forum archives;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

All Players Group– Players in this group will be matched with each other as much as possible to ensure as many human players can meet and play together
Private Group – Players in this group will only be matched with other players in the same private group
Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited)
(All by a Lead Designer)

Also DB on Multiplayer and Grouping and Single (01:00 - 02:01)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JYRyhxYhI&list=PL7glm5rbPHKyBblUEjmm2PFkwJ4ykuz6s&index=18

DB on "Griefing" and "Griefers"
(Listen out for the part where FD can move them in to a private group of just each other)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5hqjxmf4M

Rededit Topic on "unusual event for players to come against players" (With Twitch Video)
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDanger...will_be_an_unusual_event_for_players_to_come/

Direct Twitch Link; (Note DB use "Occasonial" and "unusual" regarding players interacting)
http://www.twitch.tv/egx/b/571962295?t=69m00s

Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.



If I missed anything, let me know.

 

[Asp Explorer]

We could have had a great single player game, a great multiplayer game or this hybrid monstrosity.

Elite is neither and both at the same time, and one or the other at any time you choose.

 

[Captain Willard]

WOW this is great reading, funnier than warner brothers cartoons. The last big mmo I was in was huge pve content and big pvp. To join a big pvp team it was their way or the hiway. Then good pve teams followed suit, want to do a big mission? Have this armor, weapons and these skills or it's back to solo play for you. Here we have it all. No one telling me how to play my chr. ED got it right for everyone.

 

[AgentGB]

Seems quite futile contributing anything to the discussion, seems to be 30 pages of "a fine conversation between a collection of cultured gentlemen lobbying against the same thing", ED is what it is i guess, it's cool, will vote with my wallet on upcoming expansions. I enjoy the games, but some things aren't balanced, and can only see further request from those who only play singleplayer to make somthing even harder then it already is so they may or may not venture into open. Hopefully wings will naturally balance this out, although smuggling needs to be improved, piracy/privateering, and i honestly believe those trading in open should reap some form of benefit, should it be lower insurance or multipliers to there income, all ideas are up in the air.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Well might you think its a 'flaw', in the same way that I think sesame seeds on a big mac are a 'flaw',.

you are so so wrong!. Seeded baps are > naked baps

but on elite you are 100% correct. I fully accept that what elite offers is not the norm, and it is for that reason I prefer it over other games. If I am not feeling sociable and want to blow off some steam, or if the boss is on the internet and sucking my bandwidth I will play in solo, if I want to catch up with old school mates from way back when and just natter whilst doing a bit of money making I can play in groups, and if I am "on it" and fancy fully concentrating and meeting randoms I go into all.

I accept that there ARE some perceived downsides to this, just as there are downsides to having it all locked in, but that is why you look at what a game offers and then make your purchase accordingly.......... It is also why I currently do not play ANY other MMOs but do play elite. The idea of 3 different commanders for 3 different modes is a none starter for those of us with limited gametime. I want to own the expensive gear one day, and at some point aim to be elite, but that will never happen if I have to do it 3 separate times!.

There is nothing at all wrong with looking at a game and saying, "you know what, this game may be great for you guys but it isnt for me". Much like I think EVE is superb, I would not try to change it, but equally I just do not like it personally.

I also think suggesting a few changes is great or additions (suggesting NOT demanding), Elite is not perfect BUT there are changes and then there are changes which fundamentally change core advertised features which if implemented would ruin the game for a large core selection of people.

One issue, and I do not know how to change this, wings maybe??? but 1 issue as I see it, is that ALL currently has plenty of the adversarial player interaction, but, I have seen little of the co-operative side of things, and this is what was meant to be nurtured and encouraged from the get go..

When I am in ALL, and I am most of the time, I am actively excited about the idea of dropping out of SC and seeing a bunch of AI kicking 7 shades out of a CMDR and then flying in to help out..... but as of yet I have not seen this even once. (I have said it before I have no interest in getting involved with fights against humans in elite, I have WarThunder for that. For me that wont change, regardless of if I am in an unarmed hauler of a fear inducing fully loaded anaconda.