I'm sure that would happen.
Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.
- Thread starter KazumaKat
- Start date
I'm sure that would happen.
I'm of two minds about all this. They can seem OP but they do extend fights between players longer than a minute and if I go up against Mr Python in my Cobra how am I meant to stand a chance without shield cells? Presently fighting against the Federation at Kappa Fornacis would be impossible without them (cap ship zones). Whatever changes do come into the game I think ship size and functionality should be considered. My concern is they'll just be one ship everyone will end up in.
Having said all that, even with shield cells in a player fight, people often dont hit them in time resulting in a chance to capitalise on the mistake. Hmm..
Having said all that, even with shield cells in a player fight, people often dont hit them in time resulting in a chance to capitalise on the mistake. Hmm..
Guess I better bring some SCB then, huh? I wonder what would happen if I didn't have a shield generator and they did? Or if I had only gimballed and they had chaff? Think about all those encounters where they aren't perfectly balanced! ... it's all about choice. If you CHOOSE to not bring them, that's YOUR choice.
This, plus only being able to fit one bank instead of fifteen and voilà, it`s not broken any more! See, devs, that wasn`t too hard, was it?
Don't remove Shield Cells (from the game). Introduce a Hull/Armor variant, make it a 'more', last thing this games needs is less. Shield cells do drag things out, mixing it up or making an Interruption Module for using against them may also be a thing to do. Do please do something, but don't start removing (or even nerfing) things yet because its like taking food from a starving puppy.
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But what about the cargo space, doesn't a combat ship need MAD cargo space? (not an actual question)
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I think it's more like removing the emetic substance that you've been pouring into the starving puppy's water bowl for the last month.
I think that SCB's can have a place in this game, but they need to be seriously reworked. There's a lot of people (including me) who've com eup with suggestions on how to make this possible. One really simple thing is just to have the SCB drain the SYS capacitor while in use.
This is exactly it, we need MOAR ! Now i can agree that we need some balance, to ensure that their isn't an I WIN button, but there's so many balance considerations that need to be taken into account, there's are so many options for FD to improve and make combat more intense and interesting, just at the module and weapon level, but still making each individual item a consideration in use and not just a bigger numbers situation.
Hello Commander Jimac!
To be fair, we're not simply balancing around credit cost. And to your other points, well, we have to make calls for the game based on all sorts of criteria: different aspects of game play, fiction context, player experience, etc.
Basically, we're not just making a player versus player game. And yes, once our next changes roll out, there might still need to be some further changes. But I simply disagree that it's a flawed concept. I think it's a sold concept that we're committed to making as good as possible for the game.
Hello Commander Redan!
Looking at the various rewards and penalties is an ongoing effort, so when we find tweaks we think will make the game better we'll push them through.
Hello Commander NeilF!
Carrying multiple shield cell banks will mean that you're not carrying something else. And with a higher power draw requirement, the more banks you carry the more likely you will need to micro-managing your power plant.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want shield cell banks to be the "be all and end all" of module selection; we going to keep an eye on them once the changes roll out, it will be great to get feedback from the player base, and if more tweaks are required (even to the point of cool down usage, one cell bank only etc.) we won't be afraid to implement them. I'm certainly not going to sit here and announce that "everything is awesome! Tss, mm, tss, mm, tss, mm".
I simply disagree with the notion that because they can create imbalance - they should be dropped. In my opinion, given the amount of imbalance it's possible to create for any situation - this argument is not strong enough to sway me.
I hope this helps show where we're coming from on this, naturally, no-one is forced to agree with out stance.
They needlessly prolong fights to an insane degree is my problem. Furthermore, do you really think this is just a PVP issue? They've removed all challenge from the already easy PVE game. NPCs pose no threat, we can effortlessly take down Elite Anacondas in pretty much any ship, not even bothering to dodge fire. It's detrimental to the PVP game because if both of you are abusing shield cells, it's impossible for either of you to die, and it's detrimental to the PVE game because it removes all challenge.
Why not make it a skill based mechanic instead of a simple shield potion? Instead of shield cells rapidly replenishing, have shield cells temporarily bolster your shields significantly for a short period of a second or so, with a reasonable cooldown to prevent spamming. This way, it becomes more context sensitive. You only want to bolster your shields when you're about to have some dangerous smackdown heading your way, right? Say, an anconda's PAC is heading right for you, and you can't stop it. You can however block it if you have good timing. Of course, those without good timing, intuition, reflexes, or predictive capabilities wouldn't be able to abuse shield cells this way very effectively.
Why not have it occupy a weapons hardpoint so that you have to sacrifice offense for defense? Because right now, if you're a combat oriented ship, there are no downsides to loading yourself up with 6 or more shield cells. Hell, in my cobra, I can have 30+ of them. That allowed me to dominate multiple players and NPCs because they didn't have as many, and I didn't even have to bother dodging their fire.
Please consider a different approach to shield cells instead of a basic, skill-less (it does not take skill to press a button and have your health go to full) mechanic that we have now. This has seriously killed all joy in combat for me with this mmo-esque healing mechanic that has turned combat from a skill-based affair to a battle of attrition revolving around a boring numbers game.
And? What else would a combat ship want to carry? Cargo for all the trading it won't be doing? Scanners for all the exploring it won't be doing? No. It'll be loading itself up with shield cells. This also means that ships that aren't exclusively built for combat are completely useless and have no chance of winning against a ship that is, since they will run out of shield cells before their opponent.
This is what attacking an Anaconda from the front looks like now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-nhC4vf6Ec
This is what it used to be like, barring the lag
http://puu.sh/dKMXB/ceef06d53c.webm
In so many ways, while the balance from beta 1.06 has gotten better in some respects, I also felt it took a few major steps back.
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In any reasonable ship, looking for combat, this is a non-issue surely? ie: The internal compartments wouldn't be in use for anything?
Well that could be the answer. If you can't power more than one at a time, then great! However, as people have already mentioned it wouldn't take much effort to create Voice Attack command to flick over from Shield Cell 1, to 2, and then from 2 to 3, thus allowing 2 or more shield cells to be used easily in a single engagement.
So yes, let's see how the first round of tweaks go, but my fear is unless we more actively force only one at a time, either by only allowing one, or forcing a switch over between then that takes some sort of time, we'll remain with, the more you have, the more likely it is you can simply mindlessly out tank an opponent.
Yeah but who in their right mind would CHOOSE to not bring a shield generator or shield cell banks if they have the choice?
Not everyone can afford a Python though and most would agree a Sidewinder shouldn't beat a Python easily. Therefore, in most people's minds Python versus Sidewinder is actually quite balanced.
Shield cell banks are a stupid mechanic though. They completely change the nature of combat, and into a direction that isn't better. Not to speak of NPC's who don't use them, making it basically an exploit in single player.
Just make shield cell overheat your ship when you use them.
For let's say a class 1 shield cell overheat for less than a shield cell 5, but heal your shield for a lot less
Than people will say .. YEAH but everyone will just spam Heatsink !
Than let's make people unable to use heatsink over 150 % or make heatsink a module..
i am just speculating
/run away and hide in a dark humid corner.
For let's say a class 1 shield cell overheat for less than a shield cell 5, but heal your shield for a lot less
Than people will say .. YEAH but everyone will just spam Heatsink !
Than let's make people unable to use heatsink over 150 % or make heatsink a module..
i am just speculating
/run away and hide in a dark humid corner.
What you may find easy, others may find difficult. (PvE)
Have you taken on an player python in your sidewinder with shield cells? (PvP)
The mechanic works fine for what it does, think about it, you are already doing a multitude of tasks, in addition to this you now need to know the rating of the shield cell, the active discharge and replenish time, the amount of ship shield you have left (dependent on shield class size and ship type), the weapons being used to deplete your shield, and then have a skill shot of hitting the button at the right time for maximum effect vs enemy fire. (Its not just an I win button)
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Hello Commander NeilF!
It's fair to say that more internal modules may end up appearing.
I believe the good thing about this issue is that there are lots of potential levers to pull. In addition to the various suggestions stated (all of which are appreciated by the way), we could, for example: introduced significant heat gain when using a cell (Commander Suprez, you read my mind!), increase the delay before the recharge kicks in, cause some nasty penalty if you use a cell and it over charges your shields by some amount, make activation require a charge instead of use a delay, and so on.
So, yes, we're aware that there are issues (hence the initial steps we're taking), we will be looking into options as required.
It's fair to say that more internal modules may end up appearing.
I believe the good thing about this issue is that there are lots of potential levers to pull. In addition to the various suggestions stated (all of which are appreciated by the way), we could, for example: introduced significant heat gain when using a cell (Commander Suprez, you read my mind!), increase the delay before the recharge kicks in, cause some nasty penalty if you use a cell and it over charges your shields by some amount, make activation require a charge instead of use a delay, and so on.
So, yes, we're aware that there are issues (hence the initial steps we're taking), we will be looking into options as required.
If you find PVE difficult with shield cells I don't know what to say. NPCs are wimpy even without shield potions.
And no, I wouldn't bother taking on a player python period, even if I had a bunch of wingmen. It has the strongest shields in the game, and a player python would likely have a TON of shield cells given how many compartments it has. There was a video of three players in cobras/vipers attacking a player python, with the aid of npcs. His shield didn't go down once. What a joke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUjeMXJblks
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You devs always end these kind of sentences too soon...
Modules like?
List please!
like...
more...
More...
MOAR!!!!
more...
More...
MOAR!!!!
One shield cell bank per ship - period. If fore and aft shields are ever going to be introduced to the larger ships, then tie a single shield cell to a particular shield direction. That's the only time multiple shield cell banks should be allowed. And the AI get taught to use them.
*Edit* Plus what Alex says above.
*Edit* Plus what Alex says above.