Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.
- Thread starter KazumaKat
- Start date
That's just the way it is, people have different skill levels, and you have to consider this.
Well there you go that's the balance between a 100mil ship Vs two inexperienced pilots in 5 mil ships, that's the current balance in the game, what your basically saying is you want to be able to wreck 100mil+ ships easy?
Last edited:
Turn the shield cell into a dedicated shield capacitator: Upon activation it dumps extra juice into shields but now it must recharge from SYS power before next activation.
That's not balance. The python is practically invincible with no downsides at all and no possible way to counter it. Also, the player pilots taking the python on don't seem very inexperienced. If you just want to turn combat into a numbers game, I really can't understand that. A swarm of vipers, cobras etc, even if their net worth is less than that of a python, should still be a legitimate threat. There are other ways to make a python useful than making it invincible.
Also, pve being a cakewalk is not a matter of different skill levels in the average case. I can't imagine somebody who would be so horrible at the game that they're incapable of killing the braindead a.i, or using shield potions to "press x to not die." You would have to be disabled in some way to be that incompetent. For the average player, especially for a supposedly somewhat hardcore pc game like Elite, I don't think it's a problem.
Last edited:
Hi Sandro, I still think they need a more tangible and immediate tactical downside, a bit of extra cost and quiescent power draw is falling way short of whats needed IMO: If you pop a cell you should suffer some detrimental side effect e.g. heat generation, damage to shield generator or some such.
I PvP with MINIMUM 3 cargo racks.
For obvious reasons.
Tactical decisions, tradeoffs and such.
On the subject of heat generation, I also think that in its current form, heat just isn't much of a problem. It doesn't even seem to damage you until 150% or so, and you can get rid of it very quickly, even without heat sinks.
It's not invincible, and yes those pilots weren't even kitted to take that on let alone coordinated fire, and yes at the root this is a numbers game(cr being all powerful) as with all multiplayer pvp games, it's just the way it has been and will be, even if that python was killed it would just respawn.
I was unaware Shield Cells required any power plant management. They are relatively easy to fit in multiples and are not effected by mass like the shield generators.
Hello Commander Johnny Spaceboots!
Just watched the video you linked. Have to say and I have to say, it didn't seem to me to a complete joke (I found it rather enjoyable, and in fairness, so it seems did the players involved).
The python is by most reckonings, a beast of a ship (a little too beastly, we will be dropping it's manoeuvrability a tad). Interestingly, if the Cobra had had weapons other than missile racks on the wing mounts, the python's shields would have probably broken a few times (missiles are utterly terrible versus shields, though they are hungry for hull).
Do I think the video highlights an issue: yes. Do I think the tweaks rolling out will address it: I'm not sure. Am I prepared to make further changes if we feel the next changes don't work: yes. Do we have quite a few options: yes.
It may well be that we end up with one of the more severe solutions, but that will only happen once I'm sure we can't find more interesting compromises.
Just watched the video you linked. Have to say and I have to say, it didn't seem to me to a complete joke (I found it rather enjoyable, and in fairness, so it seems did the players involved).
The python is by most reckonings, a beast of a ship (a little too beastly, we will be dropping it's manoeuvrability a tad). Interestingly, if the Cobra had had weapons other than missile racks on the wing mounts, the python's shields would have probably broken a few times (missiles are utterly terrible versus shields, though they are hungry for hull).
Do I think the video highlights an issue: yes. Do I think the tweaks rolling out will address it: I'm not sure. Am I prepared to make further changes if we feel the next changes don't work: yes. Do we have quite a few options: yes.
It may well be that we end up with one of the more severe solutions, but that will only happen once I'm sure we can't find more interesting compromises.
Shield cells are an inherently bad idea. Potion chugging has no place in Elite, IMO.
I recommend the component works as a shield energy reserve. Just adding power to that bar in the energy management. That frees the player into using more pips elsewhere when needed (though that still softens the shields, of course).
I recommend the component works as a shield energy reserve. Just adding power to that bar in the energy management. That frees the player into using more pips elsewhere when needed (though that still softens the shields, of course).
Last edited:
If you want to increase general ship survivability in particular someones ability to flee from a fight (which is the subtext I'm pick up from you comments) then there other ways to do this such as a general increase in hull durability.
As thing stand cells are effectively a PvE exploit since NPCs rarely use them. So Sandro if you really want to find out if people can live with them then start making most NPC ships carry and use them aggressively otherwise we are in the same situation as with the FA-off boost exploit.
Last edited:
I'm 100% on board with changing this; I hate when games refill your "life bar" auto-magically and quickly. Not fun. I want to see my life drop piecemeal, and guage how long it will take, against how much damage I'm doing. Not have to perform a quick warp out after a mistake. Reaction games are fun, thinking games are more fun (imo).
But AFAIK you cant fire weapons if your too hot (I dont know exactly what the limit is). Also heat generation doubles as a cooldown since successive use might push you over the 150.
Judging from the person who posted the video, he didn't seem to enjoy the shield cell spamming, even if he did enjoy teaming up with other players in a rare happening.
He was also the OP of this thread, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=87288&page=8, in which he expresses how he finds shield cells to be an undesirable mechanic.
Furthermore, I'm not convinced that an extra pair of size 1 weapons would be the tiny extra bit necessary to break the pythons shields. At most, the Python would have had to just use their shield cell a little sooner.
Also, with what you're saying... that basically means that if you don't take all energy weapons that are strong against shields, you should just pack it up if you come across a player with shield cells. Who cares if cannons, missiles, etc, are good against the hull if you can never get past the shields in the first place?
And why should a Python be able to take the abuse of several players and NPCs without even bothering to avoid fire for 5 minutes straight and escape with absolutely no hull damage, no risk, no danger? Elite used to be about skill, but now it just feels like I'm a level 1 in WoW fruitlessly wailing on a level 99 or whatever.
Ship TTK was much closer to where it should have been in beta 1.06. What shield cells have essentially done is multiply that TTK. A cobra with 30 shield cells now takes 30 times as long to kill. God forbid you try to kill a python or an Anaconda that spams them.
Shield cells practically multiply a ships HP, and yet we have no such damage multiplier for weapons to counteract that.
Last edited:
I think one of the biggest problems for me right now is the clear distinction between NPCs and players that cells create given that NPCs never use them. This breaks the immersion somewhat that has been so well set-up by the scale galaxy and creates something feeling akin to a god mode. As has been suggested we could have NPCs do this but then I think that those who currently struggle with PVE would not like it at all. The best single solution I have heard so far is to make them single use or at least have a long enough cool down so that spamming multiple cells becomes unlikely in most encounters. This should end the skill-less killing of Anacondas without moving. I'm pleased however that the devs have an eye on this and I'm confident that we will at least get to a point in the future where they are less of an essential (I'm only fitting them in my Eagle at the moment because I would feel at a disadvantage verses a player who does). I'll keep an eye on developments but just to remove any ambiguity I'm firmly in the 'please remove them completely' camp. Keep up the good work!
Thank you for letting us know about the thoughts on shield cell rebalancing!
Just to add my 2c - i'm a casual player who mostly traders and explores, and shield cells make it possible for me to occasionally venture into combat without over-obsessing about losing my ship since it allows me to retreat or get that extra umph to finish the combat i'd lose otherwise.
So, while cells are currently too cheap for awesome benefit they provide, please don't swing the pendulum too much in other direction. i'm sure there's a good balance somewhere in the middle. if it wasn't for shield cells, i'd never would have enjoyed combat without having it be nervewracking. And i'm just a regular player: i can't kill anaconda with a sidewinder, i don't know my cr/h metric, i'm just having lots of fun being a space pilot.
Just to add my 2c - i'm a casual player who mostly traders and explores, and shield cells make it possible for me to occasionally venture into combat without over-obsessing about losing my ship since it allows me to retreat or get that extra umph to finish the combat i'd lose otherwise.
So, while cells are currently too cheap for awesome benefit they provide, please don't swing the pendulum too much in other direction. i'm sure there's a good balance somewhere in the middle. if it wasn't for shield cells, i'd never would have enjoyed combat without having it be nervewracking. And i'm just a regular player: i can't kill anaconda with a sidewinder, i don't know my cr/h metric, i'm just having lots of fun being a space pilot.
Why is there an ammo cost for shield cells? It's a battery... I thought in this future power was trivial. Why are we going to be charged for a little bit of power? Heck, we don't even get charged for O2. Also.. why is there going to be a higher idle power cost to have these modules if they are just batteries? We can't charge them... so why even have any power draw?
~Steve
~Steve
What a joke indeed. From the video description: "Several of us band together and attack. Brilliant fun" ... guess it must have been terrible and everybody is angry. They loved the battle, had a ton of fun. That would have been boring as hell if he didn't have cells. Yay, "4v1 he ded".
THAT is exactly what I want to be a part of.
The problem isn't how long they last, I think for 100m ships flying around, that's perfect. The problem is they get away and people don't get their kill.
I believe with the way insurance and such is in this game, it's not designed to have people dying left and right every 45 seconds. Their should be another type of reward for damage done to a player instead of just paid on death, that way "death" itself isn't the only option to gain credits with PVP.
I don't know, I loved that video. I loved the fact he kept using cells, it would have been another 1 minute 'kill' video if he hadn't. That looked like exactly the type of fighting I like, even the player getting away.