Not false at all. They make them 2.5 times stronger with 4 pips, true. In a normal fight without shield cells, that would be a great advantage, right? Well, with shield cells, you don't need that benefit, since you can carry enough cells to pop them indefinitely. Why put 4 pips in sys when you can have 4 pips in wep, and have the benefit of maximum firepower, and what is practically maximum shields (you just have to press the button to not die a little bit more frequently, big whoop)
Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.
- Thread starter KazumaKat
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Not false at all. They make them 2.5 times stronger with 4 pips, true. In a normal fight without shield cells, that would be a great advantage, right? Well, with shield cells, you don't need that benefit, since you can carry enough cells to pop them indefinitely. Why put 4 pips in sys when you can have 4 pips in wep, and have the benefit of maximum firepower, and what is practically maximum shields (you just have to press the button to not die a little bit more frequently, big whoop)
Unless I've missed something, this discussion isn't about the best ships in the game being the best ships in the game, which, as I think we all agree, must be true, because anything else would be a pradaoxical statement.
The problem is that using SCB in conjunction with a Python turns you into a near-invincible sky god. since the Python doesn't get its FSD slowed down by smaller ships, they can also rapidly escape at will when they run out of shield potions.
As you could see from that video Kremmen posted, the Python was serious trouble to all 3 ships combined even before using SCB's. I don't think there's anything wrong in the strength of the large ships, especially considering how everyone who wants to be powerful seems to want to get them.
The NPCs actually spent much of the video attacking the Cobra player anyway.
I actually agree with others that SCBs aren't a great mechanic, but I also feel that right now they are the only thing that makes flying the larger, expensive ships viable in multi-person combat for the costs involved. I'd be happy to see them removed, but then something else likely needs to be done to improve durability of the larger ships. Which is fine, as I think they could come up with more interesting possibilities for that than SCBs.
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No you can't, not even a thousand would last forever. That video was only eight minutes long and then the Python was out.
You cannot fire off SCBs more often than one every six seconds (unless they come from different modules). Ignoring sys pips is a great way to get caught off guard and face a shield collapse. If any two well equipped Vipers or Cobras hit you simultaneously at two pips, chances are your shields will fail even if you pop and SCB at the perfect moment. If any one Cobra or Viper can land the majority of four racks of dumbfires on you, your shields will fail despite an SCB being used.
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No, it would weaken it significantly. Instead of six full shield recharge, you only get approximately 1/4 to 1/3 extra recharge rate. A modules are not meant to be a 100% more effective than D modules in the first place. It's called diminishing return.
Do we know if the Python was out? Because I can carry 30 shield cells in my Cobra. The Python could easily carry much more than that. I've fought two well equipped vipers in a cobra before, and they couldn't take my shields down. I came out on top because I brought more shield cells than they did. Also, a loadout of purely dumbfire missiles is asinine and just goes to show how badly shield cells screw up the balance if that's what it takes to ever hope to break through them. Used to be that you could get the job done with any weapon loadout, as long as you were good enough at piloting. Now weapons for destroying hulls are useless because if you bring them, you'll never be able to break the shields in the first place. The only loadout worth a damn is all dumbfires for purely the extreme amount of burst, all other weapons are obsolete.
All of this.
I feel the shield cells are some devs baby. Somebody thought the common MMO mechanic was needed in Elite, and it's very hard to let such things go. As an indie dev myself, I know how that feels, and how hard it's to notice when some idea doesn't actually fit, or make the game better.
I think the shield cells will be removed eventually, but we may be stuck with them for a while... Which means I will avoid any PvP as utterly pointless, and just escape, or even kill the process if forced into a combat with them. They just kill the fun pf combat for me.
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I like long TTK, and I want to see more fights that end without ships blowing up. The shield cells are not the answer, they are terrible. What is needed is big ships being much less agile, and having more durability. They should be more tanky, and rely more on turrets.
Im enjoying reading the theorycrafting here, a B6 on a python holds 13 cells an A5 holds 7, sorry I don't have the number for an A6 I think it was 10, and please consider a B shield cell only does approx one ring on a python, don't remember if this is the same as the other ships.
Just throwing another hat in the ring I think you'd struggle to take the shields off 4 pips python in any small ship, but its really not too bad to take them off 2 pips the 2.5x shield strength makes an enormous difference. It'd just be about waiting for the right moment to use a suitably large alpha strike to take them off, you'd have to be using beams/railguns/bursts most likely and on say a solitary cobra you'd struggle with this i don't think 2 players would struggle to take the shields off a python.
Just throwing another hat in the ring I think you'd struggle to take the shields off 4 pips python in any small ship, but its really not too bad to take them off 2 pips the 2.5x shield strength makes an enormous difference. It'd just be about waiting for the right moment to use a suitably large alpha strike to take them off, you'd have to be using beams/railguns/bursts most likely and on say a solitary cobra you'd struggle with this i don't think 2 players would struggle to take the shields off a python.
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No, we don't know for certain, but he would have run out sooner or later, irrespective of the quantity, unless he fled.
They were probably idiots.
I doubt it.
The right tool for the right job.
Hardly.
A D1 SCB only restores about 15-20% of my Viper's shields. It will restore less to any ship with stronger shields. You change that to a fixed 20% and that D1 SCB is now better than it was before for any ship with Cobra strength or stronger shields.
What you propose would make larger ships benefit much more from many of the weaker SCBs than they do now.
Yet and A1 SCB is a lot more than 100% more effective than a D1 SCB. Indeed, it has double the charges, with each charge restoring more than double the amount (over 400% more shield energy total) for a 260% increase in weight (.5 to 1.3 tons) and a lesser increase in power consumption.
Your change would reduce the effectiveness of some of the higher SCBs while making the weaker ones good enough that the weight of the better modules could not be justified on most ships.
They were somewhat competent pilots fit with a variety of beam weapons. Doubt my experience all you want, but they only had 5-6 cells each and I had 30. In a battle of attrition, I won, and they had to flee without hurting me at all.
And when you only reply with "hardly" to all other weapons apart from high burst damage anti shield weaponry being worthwhile, that's not convincing. Brought a pair of cannons to deal with hull? Worthless weapon in any situation that uses shield cells, which is most of them when dealing with players.
Running out "eventually" isn't good enough. The practical effect is that the player is invincible in almost all circumstances.
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After watching the recorder barrel roll like it actually does something in space, literately under thirty seconds or so in.
Yeah no, everyone in the video sucks, python pilot included.
I wasn't talking about the video, I was talking about my own personal experience of fighting two vipers while in a cobra with 30 shield cells.
The cobras shields are crap.
If they couldn't breach them, then they need to re-evaluate what they consider to be effective, or just hit more often.
I was hit plenty and they had a strong assortment of beams. It just wasn't a big deal. Mathematically, I held a ridiculous advantage over them.
Actually, I think I got it. If Sandro wants to keep shield cells in the game as a consumable, they should charge the _system_energy_bar_! Nothing else. That way they can be the same single use battery consumables as they are now, and yet stop ruining the combat balance.
Honestly they should just go, but if there are to be recharge batteries, let them charge the energy bank, not refill shields directly.
The best idea I have seen in this thread is the one that couples use of a shield cell with the loss of use of your weapons for a certain period of time (maybe about as long as it would take to bring those new shields back down). That would make it a purely defensive, escape type of system. And even then, I think they should be made at least somewhat less effective.
Finally, I'd think that any technology that apparently involves storing such a large quantity of instantly-available energy in such a small space should be especially vulnerable to exploding violently when damaged or overheated. How about a chance of such shield cells "cooking off" if hit by enemy weapons or overheated for any other reason, thus substantially damaging the ship carrying them? What I'm suggesting is to add a potential reason to NOT carry them ... I think that might help a lot.
Finally, I'd think that any technology that apparently involves storing such a large quantity of instantly-available energy in such a small space should be especially vulnerable to exploding violently when damaged or overheated. How about a chance of such shield cells "cooking off" if hit by enemy weapons or overheated for any other reason, thus substantially damaging the ship carrying them? What I'm suggesting is to add a potential reason to NOT carry them ... I think that might help a lot.
Works for me. Only one fitted / ship too, hopefully. Well, power draw requirements can take care if this.
I think anyone that denies the need to balance this module is delusional.
I shouldn't go from one moment fighting tooth and nail against an elite anaconda to complete ownage because of ONE shield mod. The difference virtually slaps you in the face. Like many games after release, items at times do need some revising based on their effectiveness. Problem is some players latch on to its existing characteristics like a lifeline versus trying to be truly objective for game balance sake.
I shouldn't go from one moment fighting tooth and nail against an elite anaconda to complete ownage because of ONE shield mod. The difference virtually slaps you in the face. Like many games after release, items at times do need some revising based on their effectiveness. Problem is some players latch on to its existing characteristics like a lifeline versus trying to be truly objective for game balance sake.
How about just getting better at PVP and quit crying about this AGAIN......
If someone looses a fight, they cheated and used a shield cell, why don't you just use one?
I swear the more you guys dumb down the mechanics of this game the more they will do things and screw it up instead of just working on whats truly broken.
I bet you all $1 if they listen to you and fix this..you will complain about something else.
/deadhorse
I don't even use shield cells, but I cant say ive lost to a shield cell either, ive lost to a better opponent thought.
Read the quote in my sig.
If someone looses a fight, they cheated and used a shield cell, why don't you just use one?
I swear the more you guys dumb down the mechanics of this game the more they will do things and screw it up instead of just working on whats truly broken.
I bet you all $1 if they listen to you and fix this..you will complain about something else.
/deadhorse
I don't even use shield cells, but I cant say ive lost to a shield cell either, ive lost to a better opponent thought.
Read the quote in my sig.
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