Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.

[Defacto]

I think the balance works well, if you have lots of cell banks, you forego other functionality. Ships only have a limited number of slots.
How you use them is up to you.

Yes, if I had no SCB's on my Cobra, I could haul 40 tonnes instead of 36 tonnes.
This is a great sacrifice (no, not really).

 

[aowqyaaw]

... if you have lots of cell banks, you forego other functionality ...

I forego retreating, but that's about it.

Throwing my weight behind the 1 cell per ship crowd. 1 - 3 - 5 - 6 charge options with exponential cost.

 

[StargazerJ]

Just throwing it out there. How about instead of shield cells we have a module that is a secondary shield battery. This battery fills up from the SYS pips too but takes longer than the regular shields to recharge; say twice or thrice as long. When your regular shield breaks the backup battery kicks in automatically and you now have 3 rings of a different colour showing your secondary shielding (full strength again). The recharging of your regular shield continues as per normal but you take no damage until your secondary shields are beaten. This effectively doubles your shield HP but only for the initial assault as your secondary shielding will not start recharging until your regular shields are at full strength again. Those in expensive ships who don't want to lose them and gear specifically for defence have a much greater chance of getting away but don't have the offensive advantage that popping cells gives.

Had this idea in the early hours which may have been missed so thought I would repost. Of course, maybe people thought it was just a rubbish idea (in which case I'll shut up)

 

[GeneralIdea1964]

Are you saying that SCB's nullify the advantage of ambushing an enemy, and that this is a good thing?

If I want to avoid trouble, I should avoid searching for trouble, not fitting SCB's. On the contrary, fitting SCB's is exactly what I want to do when seeking trouble.
Are you saying that you don't have a chance to run away without SCB's? That's not true.

Works that way round also I suppose.

Depends on how quickly you can put down fire.
if you have big guns then you can probably take out shields before other chap has chance to use SCB option.

I just think that it's too early in the lifespan of the game to start tweaking the balance of weapons.
Come back in 6 months or so with same arguments and I'll reconsider

 

[Defacto]

Works that way round also I suppose.

Depends on how quickly you can put down fire.
if you have big guns then you can probably take out shields before other chap has chance to use SCB option.

I just think that it's too early in the lifespan of the game to start tweaking the balance of weapons.
Come back in 6 months or so with same arguments and I'll reconsider

Why is too early?
Weapon balance has been tweaked since the beta (and thank the Viper sky-gods, or rather their nonexistance for that).

 

[vonvonbraun]

You don't balance ship modules around PvP... it's as simple as that.

You try to find a balance that fits in with ALL play styles. The A class modules make more sense, the b class should have less, to remove the spammability.

It should to me like people want to be able to burst anyone down in 20 seconds... tough. I like the drawn out fights, because thats a lot more like how it should be. These arent toy planes shooting at each other, they are futuristic space ships.

This x1000

And a cobra should pose no threat toa pyython or conda ever

Grind it up kids

 

[juras]

All the whiners gather together and after some noise the devs are going to alter the game to please them

Phyton OP, shield cells bad .......

To balance things - ok, but if all the bigger ships get nerfed until a single Eagle can destroy them in a minute the game will be dead!

Yes the Python is bad ass
Yes the Anaconda as well
Yes the T9 is sturdy

And all this should be so!

After all the effort put into gaining and outfitting one of the bigger Ships you rightfully should have an significant advantage over the smaller Ships.

It should always take an organized pack of well equipped small Fighters to challenge a Conda or the like.

Everything below an Kitted ASP should never ever be able to solely defeat an kitted Python or a Conda.

 

[GeneralIdea1964]

Just throwing it out there. How about instead of shield cells we have a module that is a secondary shield battery. This battery fills up from the SYS pips too but takes longer than the regular shields to recharge; say twice or thrice as long. When your regular shield breaks the backup battery kicks in automatically and you now have 3 rings of a different colour showing your secondary shielding (full strength again). The recharging of your regular shield continues as per normal but you take no damage until your secondary shields are beaten. This effectively doubles your shield HP but only for the initial assault as your secondary shielding will not start recharging until your regular shields are at full strength again. Those in expensive ships who don't want to lose them and gear specifically for defence have a much greater chance of getting away but don't have the offensive advantage that popping cells gives.
Had this idea in the early hours which may have been missed so thought I would repost. Of course, maybe people thought it was just a rubbish idea (in which case I'll shut up)

Interesting idea. Would need tweaking so that its wasn't possible to have them constantly overlapping or the arguments re:- SCBs would have to be applied to this.
BTW, can you fit 2 shield generators anyway? Not tried it, but that would achieve a similar effect of doubling your shield capacity mmmmmh thinks!
I reckon that the 'reserve' shield capacity would have to recharge _very_ slowly and only when the main shield is at full charge. This would make it a 1 use per encounter feature.
I think it might work.

 

[vonvonbraun]

Just Curious, but has anyone got anything like this spec yet?

I need to remember to avoid you

You can't have 5 c3 beams

 

[Defacto]

Is anyone here saying that the Python should be made weaker?


Everything below an Kitted ASP should never ever be able to solely defeat an kitted Python or a Conda? Never as in never? That I disagree with.

 

[vonvonbraun]

All the whiners gather together and after some noise the devs are going to alter the game to please them

Phyton OP, shield cells bad .......

To balance things - ok, but if all the bigger ships get nerfed until a single Eagle can destroy them in a minute the game will be dead!

Yes the Python is bad ass
Yes the Anaconda as well
Yes the T9 is sturdy

And all this should be so!

After all the effort put into gaining and outfitting one of the bigger Ships you rightfully should have an significant advantage over the smaller Ships.

It should always take an organized pack of well equipped small Fighters to challenge a Conda or the like.

Everything below an Kitted ASP should never ever be able to solely defeat an kitted Python or a Conda.

Exactly

The mentality that a cobra should be able to take on waybigger ship than its class it's flawed

There is a reason those ships cost hundred millions vs 10

There is no balance 1v1, is the nature of the game and is such as life

 

[StargazerJ]

Except that the description of the Viper states that it is a ship that can, with sufficient skill, defeat any other in single combat.

 

[vonvonbraun]

Is anyone here saying that the Python should be made weaker?


Everything below an Kitted ASP should never ever be able to solely defeat an kitted Python or a Conda? Never as in never? That I disagree with.

An asp should never beable to solO a python, sorry but different classes

You are outclassed

2 asps or an asp anda cobra vs 1 pyhon should be troublle tho

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Except that the description of the Viper states that it is a ship that can, with sufficient skill, defeat any other in single combat.

They are obviously trying to sell their product

 

[StargazerJ]

An asp should never beable tosoO aython, rpabuirntcasses

You are outclasse

2 asps oran aspandacobava yhon should betroublle tho





I don't mean to be rude but could you re-type this please?

 

[Defacto]

An asp should never beable tosoO aython, rpabuirntcasses

You are outclasse

2 asps oran aspandacobava yhon should betroublle tho

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



They are obviously trying to sell their product

Eh no
I don't subscribe to that vision. We are the ones fighting, not our ships. Individual ability should be the most important factor, not assets. You can get assets from algae trading. You don't get ability from algae trading.

 

[vonvonbraun]

An asp should never beable tosoO aython, rpabuirntcasses

You are outclasse

2 asps oran aspandacobava yhon should betroublle tho





I don't mean to be rude but could you re-type this please?

My bad phone screwed up. Retyped for clarity

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Eh no
I don't subscribe to that vision. We are the ones fighting, not our ships. Individual ability should be the most important factor, not assets. You can get assets from algae trading. You don't get ability from algae trading.

Try race an average pilot in a ferrari and a good pilot in a prius and you tell me

 

[Adept]

Sandro..OK we seem to agree that Shield cells are a problem at the moment, they control and exert too much influence over the outcome of any combat. They're so powerful they effect the balance of most other elements in combat, ie hull v shields, energy v ammo weapons, even flying evasive v turreting/flying backwards.

But your suggested solution of making the timing of the shield cell crucial, and adding negative effects if you get it wrong would actually increase the imbalancing effect of this mechanic.

How effectively you use you shield cell would become, (even more than it is now), the deciding factor in most combat situations I can imagine, but with an added roll of a dice that you might damage yourself.

I know how difficult it can be to give up on an idea which isn't working but I'd urge you to keep on the table the option of just removing them altogether, rather than set out on a series of tweaks to save a mechanic which in my opinion reduces the gameplay rather than adds to it.

As an indie dev, a modder and a balancer for PvP space combat in the past (Allegiance core dev) I feel you hit the nail on the head. It is very hard to see that a mechanic you have worked on is broken, and isn't working as you intended it to. It's one kd the hardest things to face, but letting go can be very liberating.

 

[GeneralIdea1964]

All the whiners gather together and after some noise the devs are going to alter the game to please them

Phyton OP, shield cells bad .......

To balance things - ok, but if all the bigger ships get nerfed until a single Eagle can destroy them in a minute the game will be dead!

Yes the Python is bad ass
Yes the Anaconda as well
Yes the T9 is sturdy

And all this should be so!

After all the effort put into gaining and outfitting one of the bigger Ships you rightfully should have an significant advantage over the smaller Ships.

It should always take an organized pack of well equipped small Fighters to challenge a Conda or the like.

Everything below an Kitted ASP should never ever be able to solely defeat an kitted Python or a Conda.

Well said!

Everyone out there, build up your ship before trying to chase one of the 150Kcr hunter missions or such! You will run into a Fed Dropship or 'Conda with all bells and whistles and an 'Elite' AI. Then you want to run home and cry because your base level Sidewinder got all scratched.
You've only been playing the full game for a little over a month.
If you've managed much above a Cobra by now you've done little else with your time since
Many who helped with testing Alpha/Beta might have an Asp I suspect (not me, I crash to much he he). I know a few people are looking at Pythons.

 

[vonvonbraun]

If you think of your ship as you equipment in any mmo, there is no way a player in greens can scratch someone in end game purple armor

So go grind your purples and then we can talk skills

 

[aowqyaaw]

What if you do any PvE? It's over as a contest as soon as you pop a shield cell, which, if you do any PvP (intentionally or otherwise), are mandatory when outfitting.

As for the most vociferous advocate for keeping things as they are, vonvonbraun - he/she argues that:

The mentality that a cobra should be able to take on waybigger ship than its class it's flawed

From my perspective, a cobra SHOULD be able to take down a "way bigger" ship providing they are proficiently skilled. Sadly, as things stand, skill is nullified by the immunity that shield cells afford some of the bigger ships. Shield cells are a lazy way of giving the bigger ships an advantage. A better approach would be to adjust relative shield strengths.