Once again, the majority of players in EVE DON'T use these tools. You are just throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and refusing to look at any GOOD ideas EVE has done, simply because you feel that because EVE has done them, they aren't worth doing, or are easily exploited, neither of which are the case for a game like FD. Explain to me, please, how someone would be able to setup a bot to go and do trade runs in ED? Even better question; How would it REALLY effect you and your game play, even if they did?
ED is not EVE. They are different type of games, dot
- Thread starter Resentina
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Once again, the majority of players in EVE DON'T use these tools. You are just throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and refusing to look at any GOOD ideas EVE has done, simply because you feel that because EVE has done them, they aren't worth doing, or are easily exploited, neither of which are the case for a game like FD. Explain to me, please, how someone would be able to setup a bot to go and do trade runs in ED? Even better question; How would it REALLY effect you and your game play, even if they did?
I'm sure botters will find a way, but it's going to be much harder than in the Excel/Schadenfreude simulator, and I rejoice.
Botting and cheesing affect players who don't do it, because it's also PvP game, as all the PvPers constantly point out. For people who desire to use Open Play (and who therefore are not "cowards" or even "asocial" types, to use the words of said PvPers), fighting other players who have gamed the system, who have circumventing its possible complexity by using 3rd party tools, happens on unbalanced grounds if they have not cheesed it too.
But then again some PvPers and tryhards will say "well you can do the same, if you don't do it you're lazy and deserve to lose", same reasoning as in eve if you don't want to use a scout alt + an offgrid booster alt + a falcon alt + a neutral logi alt, etc. "You don't use alts? what's wrong with you? you don't have three screens? are you poor? you deserve to lose anyway, if you don't want to commit"
The more artificial complexity and less twitch required, the more possibility for automation and cheese. And people who don't indulge in it will be labeled "lazy" by the play-to-win types, who will justify their meta by sithposting all day every day.
There's nothing eve does that ED doesn't do better, or has any intrinsic value. Eve's byzantine gameplay is just a boon for borderline exploits and people who like to think they are the cream of the crop because they have remembered a lot of boring information. Twitch and less-is-more is the way to go in a space-sim.
errrmmmm mining for starters
player interaction
wings/squads
players affecting the market
and im sorry but 32 players in a instance is pap
- Mining is a mini-game in ED, in eve it's a push button refresh every 3 minutes
- Player interaction in a conflict-based game is best kept to a minimum, given how grief-loving the gaming communities have become
- Grouping is coming
- Player markets in a conflict-based game are another form of PvP, and since this form requires no twitch it can and will be automated by bots (see screen cap from eve's forums a couple posts above). This game is better off with no player market, players can focus on flying and be immersed instead of managing excel sheets and searching for the best bot to out-bot the competition.
- 32 players per instance is perfectly fine by me and prevents blobs
But of course since both games exist you're perfectly free to gb2eve and pay or plex your subscription, while waiting for ED to add functionalities.
- Player interaction in a conflict-based game is best kept to a minimum, given how grief-loving the gaming communities have become
- Grouping is coming
- Player markets in a conflict-based game are another form of PvP, and since this form requires no twitch it can and will be automated by bots (see screen cap from eve's forums a couple posts above). This game is better off with no player market, players can focus on flying and be immersed instead of managing excel sheets and searching for the best bot to out-bot the competition.
- 32 players per instance is perfectly fine by me and prevents blobs
But of course since both games exist you're perfectly free to gb2eve and pay or plex your subscription, while waiting for ED to add functionalities.
It's only natural to compare space sims with other space sims. I don't care what FD adds to Elite, but I want more content/mechanics period.
I remember David Braben answering to a question in his VLOGs about having a bigger ship with NPCs you instruct and his answer to this was that it would turn E: D into a spreadsheet style type of game and those were already available. He didn't see EVE directly, but it sort of sounded like that.
EVE is about patience and dedication. Skill is mostly based on spreadsheet management.
I loved the original Elite. I was really into X-wing. Later I got really into Conflict Freespace 1&2. Never found the time to get into the X series.
Then I heard a nephew that was telling crazy stories about EVE. So I did try it, but I was quickly cured. I played Vendetta Online for a bit, it was interesting but the learning curve was a bit too steep for me at the time.
Thing is, somebody that has played flight sims all his life can pick up Vendetta Online or E: D and be pretty good at it, right from the start.
In EVE when you start, you don't mean anything.. you need months of dedication and patience and that while it is a subscription based game.
EVE is about patience and dedication. Skill is mostly based on spreadsheet management.
I loved the original Elite. I was really into X-wing. Later I got really into Conflict Freespace 1&2. Never found the time to get into the X series.
Then I heard a nephew that was telling crazy stories about EVE. So I did try it, but I was quickly cured. I played Vendetta Online for a bit, it was interesting but the learning curve was a bit too steep for me at the time.
Thing is, somebody that has played flight sims all his life can pick up Vendetta Online or E: D and be pretty good at it, right from the start.
In EVE when you start, you don't mean anything.. you need months of dedication and patience and that while it is a subscription based game.
I know it was done to kill off hoarding. That's why i suggested that storage be limited, and when i say limited i mean LIMITED. Like at most 30-50 tons maybe less and maybe with a storage fee. It's not like i was suggesting a 2000 ton cargo space
. It's basically, a realistic setup. It's really just there for situations like when you want to swap ships but can't because you have cargo marked as stolen and don't want to discard or (if the feature were to be added) to store equipment for another ship. It's all about options and cutting off unneeded travel. Never really meant to aid in hoarding and by extension, trading and possibly destroying a system's economy by buying up important goods.I know it was done to kill off hoarding. That's why i suggested that storage be limited, and when i say limited i mean LIMITED. Like at most 30-50 tons maybe less and maybe with a storage fee. It's not like i was suggesting a 2000 ton cargo space
You talk about limiting travel, but ED, being a space sim, is all about travel, that's it's primary focus. If you limit travel, you do away with what makes ED, Elite.
You're not limiting travel by adding an option. You're simply adding a means where you don't have to travel needlessly. You still need to do a ton of travel. Picture this, you happen upon some rare guns for your bounty hunting ship while exploring or trading. Your bounty hunting ship is over 300 LY away which means (for now at least) you need to stop and plot a course 3 times to get there, grab your ship and go back, then when you get the guns you go back again to grab the ship you're trading or exploring in, then head BACK to do what ever it is you're doing. I'm all up for exploring, but that doesn't mean i like stopping my trade or exploring to run back and forth when logically, i could just buy what i want and haul it where i want. Using this logic, if i'm traveling and happen upon a auto store and it has windshield wipers i've been looking for, i must run back home to grab the car that needs it to get it. Things just don't work like that. The game isn't about traveling, it's about doing what you want, blazing your own trail, and to do that you need options.
This is a mild example of what i was pointing out in my original post, although hats off to you for being civil and mature. I like the game, it's freaking awesome despite the fact that it's in a bare bones state. But people shouldn't let their love for the game blind them from things that can help improve it.
EVE is an apt comparison.
Both are MMO's , both are sandbox.
Elite has the twitch control (joystick/pedals/headtracking/cockpit flight)
EVE has everything else. (Trading/economy/pvp/pve/markets/industry/groups/1 universe)
rip
I'l even go as far to say, yes the Combat in EVE is not as exciting, but it's somewhat better than shooting AI that spin in circles.
I don't know how anyone can say Elite has more depth. Is trading with 96 cargo more depth than 4?
Both are MMO's , both are sandbox.
Elite has the twitch control (joystick/pedals/headtracking/cockpit flight)
EVE has everything else. (Trading/economy/pvp/pve/markets/industry/groups/1 universe)
rip
I'l even go as far to say, yes the Combat in EVE is not as exciting, but it's somewhat better than shooting AI that spin in circles.
I don't know how anyone can say Elite has more depth. Is trading with 96 cargo more depth than 4?
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I've played EVE since '04 and I can tell you now that those video's are NOT representative of actual gameplay, they are staged pre-renders. This is what a huge battle in EVE actually looks like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvtp8qaUdNk
EVE has around 400 odd thousands subscribers. Everybody I know that plays it has a minimum of 2 accounts, some guys I know have 5, I personally have 2. The actual real number of people regularly subbing is probably closer to 100-150 thousand. For an MMO, those kind of numbers are considered a dismal failure. Even SWTOR had more than that and it was considered a bomb and went f2p. EVE has it's own core of players who love the game because it allows them to behave in ways that any other MMO would deem unreasonable and they are the committed, long term playerbase. The ONLY reason EVE is perceived as being popular is because of the machinations that go on in the meta game. That's what makes headlines, not the actual gameplay, but the way the playerbase continually craps on each other with the full approval and encouragement of CCP. This isn't something that belongs in ED.
As far as these amazing mechanics go, what are they? Mining? Sitting in a Hulk, watching TV while your hold fills up? Missions? Sitting in a Golem, watching TV and pressing F1 every ninety seconds? Manufacturing? Sitting in station/at a POS, watching TV whilst queueing BP's? Really? That's what you want from ED? Yeah, erm, no thanks.
If you're talking about the multiplayer aspect, forget it. ED isn't built that way. This isn't a single shard universe, populated by thousands of players. This is a server based economy and political climate that updates your largely single player client that just happens to include an ad-hoc p2p network, thrown in to deal with instances of player interaction. It's likely never to be more than this. You're right about one thing though, It's never going to be EVE, nor should it be.
Regardless whether you agree or not, every game has parallels to probably all other games. Some more than others. Whether it is the experience of the player, the conventions of the UI, or it being PvP multiplayer, or any other countless quantities.
It is shortsighted not to take into account other game's/developer's successes and failures.
It is shortsighted not to take into account other game's/developer's successes and failures.