Interdiction Dodgers

[DarkWalker]

There's irony in there somewhere, don't you think?

Open-world, open play, interactions with other human players, but only so long as you can control those human players and keep them at a level of competency that you can handle?

Sorry my friend, I just don't get that attitude at all. Still, be happy and play as you wish.

Seems to be far more common than you might think. Else, why would the most played PvP games, by a wide margin, be arena PvP games with matchmaking and no penalty at all to the loser?

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

sorry but that deserves a rant

PvP developement takes ressources from developing other elements of the game.
So we have already spaceships with airplane flight characteristics (yes there is flight assist off but that is an joke), speed limits!, and limited range of weapons to get that dogfight feeling.
Oh and we can not have 3rd person view/cam or only very limited or the PvP player will cry bitter tears.

That looks for me as if the PvP punks already got a lot out of it!

Now lets develope trade that is more than zipping for and back between stations, planet landing and walking around inside stations, missions that make an sense and fun, and maybe then we develope PvP a little more again.
I am not in the mood to see an perfect good game destroyed on the altar of holy PvP because we all know only pvp is really playing the game and everything else is nothing but eyecandy and for carebears anyways.

Why do we have this big galaxy with thousands of stations if the only good thing is to hang out at lave and wait for the next moving target?

Yes it is fun. For three hours. then lets move on from holy PvP and do something else, because arcade was fun for me until i about 13, then i got other interests, too.

Why do online games always have to be tailored for the basement dwellers who are not allowed to vote yet? (Or the people who behave this way)

I know I know if it is not PvP in Elite it is called " Space trucking simulator" but really, there is more than PvP that can be fun, but so faar noone has found it because it has to be all tailored for PvP!

Play not open. Problem solved, and pvp content in elite is even thinner than PVE content, we got all the short stick, good day CMDR Darian.

 

[Tigga]

That challenge I actually want to accept.
You come with a cobra with at least 40 cargo space, and I will come with this: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=30W,CVvCVv01Q0mI0mI,314s6Q6Q3I4s3m6k,08c08c7RA0727fE7dg4xo
I can oneshot you, literally. And my shields are 20% stronger than yours. And all I have to do is charge my FSD to win or even just evade you in super cruise already.

Killing you 2 points, getting killed 1 point for you, having to give you my cargo 2 points for you, getting away into FSD one point for me. We play till someone reach 10 points? Who do you think as the better chances?

Come on, at least let him take 32t cargo space! I guess if he doesn't need the FSI/limpets/shield cells. Not that shield cells will help against torps, but you know.

Type-6s who have a vague idea what they're doing aren't really fodder for Cobras anyway. That's why I fly an Asp. Then all I have problems with is them outrunning me (can't afford new thrusters on my meagre piratical earnings)... and accidently overheating away their last 20% hull (do these guys not watch their temps?).

 

[Stonecoldamason]

Definitely fixed, gimbled get chucked off by chaff and become pointless, shield cells I don't use, my shield is high end along with my mirror armour, so pretty well setup, but if traders insist on playing in open with no protection, then you only have yourselves to blame, I lost my T6 and 112 tons of gold trying to be clever in open play, wont do that again, learnt my lesson, don't be gready, arm and protect yourself, don't give up these for cargo space and whine when you get interdicted in either mode, if you loose, you loose. Only trade or move what your willing to loose, that's the gamble...

 

[tagos]

That challenge I actually want to accept.
You come with a cobra with at least 40 cargo space, and I will come with this: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=30W,CVvCVv01Q0mI0mI,314s6Q6Q3I4s3m6k,08c08c7RA0727fE7dg4xo
I can oneshot you, literally. And my shields are 20% stronger than yours. And all I have to do is charge my FSD to win or even just evade you in super cruise already.

Killing you 2 points, getting killed 1 point for you, having to give you my cargo 2 points for you, getting away into FSD one point for me. We play till someone reach 10 points? Who do you think as the better chances?

Impressive Q ship. But why not fly an Asp instead? Better armed, same or better cargo and much longer range.

But - nice load out. Very tempted to make one and do the Q Ship thing.

 

[parazaine]

The sad fact is that the 'disconnect exploit' is a part of online gaming....you can't remove it because you can't control the client.

I agree that people that do this in open play are exploiting the game (why they can't just fight it out or attempt to run is beyond me) It's not like we have kill statistics and leaderboards (ANY MORE) and its ultimately a 'behavior' imported from online FPS shooter games with the worst sort of exploiting communities. If you don't want to run the risk of PvP then play in solo mode.

I also think that the OP may be partially confused in that players CAN avoid interdictions legitimately by winning the mini game and also there are issues with the whole P2P server set-up

 

[MatTheCat]

I see the value overall in having players want to be pirates. It adds both a pathway for a player to advance in and a method of building the world players inhabit. No drama like conflict. That is why I think a good solution is to give would-be pirates non-lethal means to disable and pirate a mark, still get a pirate tag, and not murder the other player. Then turn up the murder penalty to something astronomically difficult to erase. I am still learning the ins and outs, are there already non-lethal means to threaten another player by?

What, Non-Lethal such as disabling the shields and knocking the vessel down to around 30% hull, and then firing a Cargo Bay Hatchet Limpet at the vessel from close range, and sitting back and watching CMDR nÜb's cargo spill out into open space?

You know the total bounty you get for doing what i describe above?

200 Credits....or sometimes it can be a few pennies more. A well worthwhile endeavour!

I have preset text phrases that I execute into the games comms by voice command. The only time that I will ever get any 'compliance' from a victim is when they know they have nothing to steal. Otherwise, it is either a fight or an escape attempt......or a disconnect.

The sad fact is that the 'disconnect exploit' is a part of online gaming....you can't remove it because you can't control the client.

Plenty of p2p based online games that have reliable means of detecting the disconnect exploiter and punishing them for it......sometimes it gets it wrong...but..pffft.

 

[Tigga]

Definitely fixed, gimbled get chucked off by chaff and become pointless, shield cells I don't use, my shield is high end along with my mirror armour, so pretty well setup, but if traders insist on playing in open with no protection, then you only have yourselves to blame, I lost my T6 and 112 tons of gold trying to be clever in open play, wont do that again, learnt my lesson, don't be gready, arm and protect yourself, don't give up these for cargo space and whine when you get interdicted in either mode, if you loose, you loose. Only trade or move what your willing to loose, that's the gamble...

Fair enough! I've never had much luck mixing projectile with lasers when I'm fully fixed, and those lower hardpoints are painful with fixed weapons.

Without any shield cells I don't see you winning many fights against people who have them (and can use them) though. Right now they're effectively a 5x+ boost to sheild strength. I guess with the cannons you may have quite a bit of burst, which may work.

 

[Rivka]

sorry but that deserves a rant

PvP developement takes ressources from developing other elements of the game.
So we have already spaceships with airplane flight characteristics (yes there is flight assist off but that is an joke), speed limits!, and limited range of weapons to get that dogfight feeling.
Oh and we can not have 3rd person view/cam or only very limited or the PvP player will cry bitter tears.

That looks for me as if the PvP punks already got a lot out of it!

Now lets develope trade that is more than zipping for and back between stations, planet landing and walking around inside stations, missions that make an sense and fun, and maybe then we develope PvP a little more again.
I am not in the mood to see an perfect good game destroyed on the altar of holy PvP because we all know only pvp is really playing the game and everything else is nothing but eyecandy and for carebears anyways.

Why do we have this big galaxy with thousands of stations if the only good thing is to hang out at lave and wait for the next moving target?

Yes it is fun. For three hours. then lets move on from holy PvP and do something else, because arcade was fun for me until i about 13, then i got other interests, too.

Why do online games always have to be tailored for the basement dwellers who are not allowed to vote yet? (Or the people who behave this way)

I know I know if it is not PvP in Elite it is called " Space trucking simulator" but really, there is more than PvP that can be fun, but so faar noone has found it because it has to be all tailored for PvP!

I know man, it's like Frontier considers competitive interaction between two live players to be important or something! I'd rant more on the topic, but I have a level 45 Double-Wookie Shiv-Knight over on Progress Quest I need to level. Progress Quest, now THAT'S a game that gets to the core of what is fun in an MMOG, without the stupid PVP aspects! Give it a try!

 

[Stonecoldamason]

Aye Tigga, think its the power, amount of cannon projectiles I fire and timing if your quick enough, they are concentrating on avoiding and forget the cell, or just ain't quick enough, i fair ok, haven't list a fight yet, but it will cone, again there is always someone quicker, better, faster etc etc,.

 

[Arithon]

I got interdicted last night near Keri and dropped into normal space with nobody there. I didn't have cargo in the Adder I was driving (I'd have just made a run for it anyway). I am guessing this is a new bug.

Disconnection is a thorny issue, since it is possible to get disconnected through no fault of your own. Having a solution to this has to balance any penalty for quitting at the first sign of danger using ALT-F4.

Solution? I don't know. Maybe a fine (up to the value of your cargo?) for disconnection, awarded to the interdiction player if it happens within 90 seconds of interdiction - very slim chance of interdiction and ISP failure both at the same time. This might be a better option than ship destruction on exit and something I could live with as part of the game if my router died, but fairer for pirate players if someone tried to escape by cheating (what else would you call exiting to avoid a fight?). So if someone ALT-F4's when interdicted the pirate player would get cash from the ship's exit. No permanent harm.

I would think there would also have to be a balance on the flip side, where a clean ship (i.e. not wanted) is attacked and destroyed when not holding any cargo, or after ejecting some of it, the attacker would face a bounty at least equal to the insurance value of the ship destroyed. That wouldn't preclude killing a ship that won't relinquish their cargo, but would make murder-for-kicks an expensive business.

Just my thoughts on possible solutions.

 

[Tigga]

What, Non-Lethal such as disabling the shields and knocking the vessel down to around 30% hull, and then firing a Cargo Bay Hatchet Limpet at the vessel from close range, and sitting back and watching CMDR nÜb's cargo spill out into open space?

You know the total bounty you get for doing what i describe above?

200 Credits....or sometimes it can be a few pennies more. A well worthwhile endeavour!

I have preset text phrases that I execute into the games comms by voice command. The only time that I will ever get any 'compliance' from a victim is when they know they have nothing to steal. Otherwise, it is either a fight or an escape attempt......or a disconnect.

This. I get a bit more compliance than none, but most of the time people stop they have no cargo. Maybe 10-15% of people both stop and have cargo.

A single limpet usually drops between 4-8t, and doesn't work so well against fast targets, or targets with point defense. Blasting out the cargo hatch works quite well as well (though some people fly in a way to block this), though gotta be careful not to shoot when the limpet is on.

Non-lethal cargo ejection is certainly not ideal though, I usually get more if the other chap "willingly" drops some (either without shooting, or after his hull is on 20% and he has to switch stuff off to avoid overheating). I think it depends on the ship. As a fast pirate (Cobra/Viper) smash & grab works really quite well, but when you move up to a slower ship (Asp) intimidation tends to have fewer, but larger, paydays.

 

[Underhook]

Hi sorry, I'm pretty new but would like to add to the conversation about murder and attacking trader class players.

Would it be acceptable to include weaponry that disables ships rather than destroys them? Say for example, have EMP blasts or some kind of disputer than does not register as an aggressive attack but a passive way for pirates to instill some threat without the outright pursuit of PKing?

Example: Pirate sees a possible mark, pursues it, interdicts and in the fray commands a pay off otherwise they will disable the ship and limpet all their loot? If they do so, they are tagged a pirate with a bounty but the other player does not put their entire ship at risk? This way both players can RP as well as have a more accepting transaction. If the marked player aggresses then the pirate has access to the deadly weapons without criminal fines. Then you can make murder the utmost DAMNING fine/penalty possible and shrug and say you gave players the option to do it without the need of PKing?

Does that makes sense, or is it a stupid solution? What say you commanders?

Could be a good idea with some refining. Currently you can target subsystems such as "frame shift drive" "drive" "cargo hatch" "power plant" etc. So it is possible to disable a ship but generally a lot of hull damage is done in the process which would be very costly to repair on a big trader. Would probably be cheaper for the trader to return, sell his/her remaining goods, fly out and self destruct (to claim insurance)

 

[MatTheCat]

Definitely fixed, gimbled get chucked off by chaff and become pointless, shield cells I don't use, my shield is high end along with my mirror armour, so pretty well setup,

Yeah.....and how do you get on playing with just fixed aim weapons, when playing against some CMDR spinning circles around you whilst switching Flight Assist On/Off?

I have been playing arcade flight combat games for years, in the form of BF2, BF3, BF4, and reckon I am pretty good at them. Fixed weapons against the dumb AI is one thing, but against a human opponent who knows what they are doing?

Fixed Weapons if you want a challenge......Gimballed Weapons if you want to win!

 

[Mack Winston]

But.... what is really getting on my wick is the number of ships that are exploiting the disconnect-to-get-out-of-trouble bug.. I think about 4 out of 5 ships that I try to interdict simply vanish from the scanner, i'm guessing that they simply pull the plug rather than risk an engagement.

I don't think people are exploiting that. It seems like 75% of the time if a player interdicts me, and I submit, there's no-one there after the interdiction. I think it's just a bug in the PvP interdictions.

 

[NeilF]

The sad fact is that the 'disconnect exploit' is a part of online gaming....you can't remove it because you can't control the client.

But you can I'd suggest - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101696

The game can quite easily spot if when you're interdicted, the game just happens to "stop". If this happens repeatedly then take some action.

 

[Tigga]

Yeah.....and how do you get on playing with just fixed aim weapons, when playing against some CMDR spinning circles around you whilst switching Flight Assist On/Off?

I have been playing arcade flight combat games for years, in the form of BF2, BF3, BF4, and reckon I am pretty good at them. Fixed weapons against the dumb AI is one thing, but against a human opponent who knows what they are doing?

Fixed Weapons if you want a challenge......Gimballed Weapons if you want to win!

One word: chaff. Simply enough, gimballed weapons just do not work against me, or any player who is set up for PvP. It's amazing how many pilots think that they will. The only way you're getting any sort of hits on me is with fixed weapons.

 

[Snakebite]

But you can I'd suggest - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101696

The game can quite easily spot if when you're interdicted, the game just happens to "stop". If this happens repeatedly then take some action.

yes, there is n o reason why they can't log peoples disconnects, if a player repeatedly disconnects during interdiction then the next time they logon they should be given the choice of solo or solo......

 

[sassman]

I love being interdicted and always up for a fight... and a human interdictor is be a real bonus. I usually drop my throttle to zero whilst being interdicted which is a guaranteed way of being pulled out of Super Cruise.

I don't carry any cargo as I'm hunting and exploring but more than happy to start a fight just for the fun of it.

I used to be terrified of fighting/interdictions but the insurance mechanic alleviated that fear; as long as I've got the insurance credits to replace my Cobra and it's go faster/fight harder stripes I am always up for a fight.

If you see me out there don't bother saying hello - just interdict me. We'll let our ships "talk" it out.

Commander Harry Paget Flashman

 

[Spacejanitor]

PvP developement takes ressources from developing other elements of the game.

PvE content is an extremely cost inefficient content type. A lot of resources are needed to create something that in the end is disposable single use content thats lifespan is determined by it's repetitiveness. PvP content on the other hand is evolving and unpredictable, and in addition has a nature of creating more content. Let's forget our respective stances on the PvE vs. PvP issue and ask which one sounds better?

So we have already spaceships with airplane flight characteristics (yes there is flight assist off but that is an joke), speed limits!, and limited range of weapons to get that dogfight feeling.
Oh and we can not have 3rd person view/cam or only very limited or the PvP player will cry bitter tears.

First part doesn't make sense but the lack of 3rd person cam comes from the simulation nature of the game and has nothing, nothing to do with PvP.

That looks for me as if the PvP punks already got a lot out of it!

Now lets develope trade that is more than zipping for and back between stations planet landing and walking around inside stations, missions that make an sense and fun, and maybe then we develope PvP a little more again. I am not in the mood to see an perfect good game destroyed on the altar of holy PvP because we all know only pvp is really playing the game and everything else is nothing but eyecandy and for carebears anyways.

This might be just semantics, but the same way (I'm repeatedly told) that ED isn't an MMO, "PvP" in this game isn't PvP but just plain player interaction. Why do we need to cut the game and the community in half when we could develop it so that both parties could enjoy it? When I'm looking for "PvP" in this game, I don't want a arena mode with fighters zipping around! I want a pirate Cobra to interdict and attack my Type-6, I want that Viper Bounty Hunter that I hired as escort to kill that Cobra, I want the pirates to hire an assassin to kill the Bounty Hunter, I want the Bounty Hunters to hire a mercenary to kill the assassin. You can put me in any of those situations and I'll have a blast! This game isn't about even footing pvp, it's space, it's the future, it's dirty and it's dangerous. Hunt or be hunted. And oh my, I want to feel that I don't want to leave the station when my cargo hauler is full of rares, I want to feel that fear. See, that's content that is "more than zipping for and back between stations".

Why do we have this big galaxy with thousands of stations if the only good thing is to hang out at lave and wait for the next moving target?

Yes it is fun. For three hours. then lets move on from holy PvP and do something else, because arcade was fun for me until i about 13, then i got other interests, too.

Why do online games always have to be tailored for the basement dwellers who are not allowed to vote yet? (Or the people who behave this way)

I know I know if it is not PvP in Elite it is called " Space trucking simulator" but really, there is more than PvP that can be fun, but so faar noone has found it because it has to be all tailored for PvP!

Why do we have this big galaxy of thousands of stations if the only good thing is to zap between two star systems alternating between the sell and buy buttons? See? There's not much to do, doesn't matter if you're "PvE" or "PvP". The fact that you haven't enjoyed player interaction content since you were 13 doesn't mean you get to make the calls on what the devs do or not, thankfully.