Interdiction Dodgers

[Splendour]

One other occasional situation is if the ship you target with an interdiction is already charging it's FSD for a hyperdrive jump - they can still finish and jump leaving you interdicting nothing.

I've been on the jumping end of this a couple of times. It's not common, but it is possible.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I am not sure why pve players don´t like combat,

I think you misunderstand. Many PvEers love combat. I do! I love going to Nav points of combat zones and testing my skills against a variety of NPC pilots. An Elite/Dangerous Cobra/Viper for example will give me a nice challenge, that i will feel some satisfaction from beating. Of course, i don't get any real satisfaction from blowing up a harmless sidewinder... but i'm free to choose my targets or at least choose my exposure to risk.

Now, pay attention class - this is enjoyable for me. Maybe not for you, but for me, yes.

Would i like PvP with other people? Sure! I have no objection. Just as long as i choose that level of risk. Going into open for me is too high a level of risk. Sure, i might beat some players, i might lose, but the most likely scenario is I would be attacked by someone in a better ship than I have with superior flying skills. Hells, even if I get myself a full kitted out python at some point, i'd still probably lose to a majority of players, i'm simply not so skilled.

Also, there is no motivation for me to even do PvP. Or put it this way, let's say player bounties were 1000x higher than NPC ones... i still wouldn't be motivated to do it. I'm not playing this game for money (which is why often suggestions about making trading in open more profitable would encourage PvEers to move to open - the people writing such threads simply fail to understand the motivation of most PvEers).

So, back to PvP - might partake in it, as long as i can control the risk. For example, I might say to one of my friends, let's get two equally kittted out Vipers and have a pop at each other. That could be fun, we might both enjoy it. Even when losing. And neither of us would get upset by the fight.

However, tootling along in a Type-6, getting interdicted and blown up by someone in a Python. Especially by those who give no warning, and no option to drop cargo, just pew-pew. Yeah, but sorry, i'm not interested in that. No fun for me. Since i cannot control the risk of this when playing open (in other words, I have no idea if the player interdicting me is a good RPer who will play the pirate properly and demand cargo and then let me go OR whether they are just someone out to kill me for no reason), then I will not ever set foot in open.

I hope you understand it a little better now.

 

[NeilF]

So basically when you go pirating traders you are losing about 7.2 to 7.3 million credits per hour, because that is what you would get when you would be trading instead, right? And people wonder why most pirates do not bother with looting and just focus on shooting, because that way the increase their fun/hour. For credits per hour you can have different stuff.

Opportunity costs are still costs. You are paying credits for the privilege to steal from people in this game and you are paying big time. I rather pay less and just pay for shooting at people, because it comes with less opportunity costs

Fair enough... You're simply blowing up Lakon 7s (which are basically made of cardboard) because you enjoy the feeling that you've just frustred the hell out of a CMDR by costing him 3+m CR. But ultimately this is not condusive to good game mechanics. In the end these traders will simply not play in the public arena for fear of people simply blowing them up for kicks.

I'm afraid this mindless murdering cannot exist in the game IMHO - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101378&page=6&p=1573441&viewfull=1#post1573441

At the moment its too easy to "grief" a player (trader) and then within a couple of minutes pay a little fine, which is no deterrent.

 

[Tigga]

It is basically the same tasks, minus the self inflicted downside of being forever poor
And trading is fine as it is, it needs to have enough profit to pay pirates on regular base out of a traders poked it shoudl generate enough credits for bounties too, so it ok it it is the pineapple to making money. Besides that the game is balanced around high end trading with their high-end trading ships and huge impact on station factions via trading.

Pirating is not the same tasks as trading. Targets can fight back (I've had plenty of Cobra vs Cobra or Asp vs Asp fights while I try to limpet/shoot hatch while fighting), busting hatches/applying limpets is tricky. Trying to convince Type-6s with a death wish that suicide isn't a good idea. Trying to convince them that they probably don't want to go up to 250% heat and pop themselves. Each interdiction is different in their own way.

Reducing trading income would throw of that balance, so you would need not only reduce trading income, but as well adjust ship prices past the asp. Or do you honestly think that you could pirate with a python? You are not even getting back the repair costs for interdictions back ;-)

I hear it's ~50k. Slow speed interdictions are probably going to be a lot lower then (10-20k), and they already mentioned they may be fixing high interdiction costs.

Anyway, even at 50k an interdiction I think I'd make money (if scooping were fixed & a little scooping scaling added). It's not sensible right now as there aren't enough Type-7s floating about, and they'd be your main prey.

 

[Cmdr Effie Trinket]

Here we go again... why do the PvP crowd always forget about groups?

I really wish FD would make a default group for the PvE crowd, it might stop a lot of these threads at least.

Open (PvP)
Open (PvE)
Group
Solo

It would make it clear for all players there is a PvE option, instead of having to hear about the Mobius groups via the forums.

I'm sorry if you felt left out. Of course, my post that you quoted, specifically dealt with players dropping from Open, into Solo, as a cheat to avoid a perceived danger, that may, or may not, actually exist, outside of their own fearful minds.

Of course there is Group play! That fact was irrelevant to my point, so I left it out.

So to be clear; choose to play one game mode or the other at any single time. Do not use one to avoid the other. Play all modes using different characters, for different roles. Don't we wish?! Sadly we cannot do that, so I repeat; play one or the other at a time. Stop using the fact that the ability to switch modes exists, as an excuse, or justification for cheating.

Hopefully I have not left anyone out this time. If I have forgotten your group, please forgive my mistake.

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

Fair enough... You're simply blowing up Lakon 7s (which are basically made of cardboard) because you enjoy the feeling that you've just frustred the hell out of a CMDR by costing him 3+m CR. But ultimately this is not condusive to good game mechanics. In the end these traders will simply not play in the public arena for fear of people simply blowing them up for kicks.

I'm afraid this mindless murdering cannot exist in the game IMHO - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101378&page=6&p=1573441&viewfull=1#post1573441

At the moment its too easy to "grief" a player (trader) and then within a couple of minutes pay a little fine, which is no deterrent.

It for sure is more entertaining than fighting an elite anaconda which could not hit is way out of a paper bag. Even when I personally prefer not to hunt unarmed, unshielded and defenseless freighters, my pity for them is kind of low still. Their pilots chose this outfit for a reason and the reason is to not pay the opportunity costs of shields and weapons (and an escort in a few months). Should I now really feel bad about them when they feel bad about losing their ship? People don´t show much sadness when they hear of freighters making a mistake when docking and blow themselves up. Or when people got sended back to their sidewinder from npc pirates. Why should we feel specially sad about it when another player does it?

 

[Kalann]

Dumbest idea i saw, given how many DC's etc are going on in game atm.

I know, lets give me a 4.5m credit bill, because the server dc'd me for 5 seconds..

 

[Jex =TE=]

Oh dear,

I see there's still people grasping onto the "griefer problem" as an excuse to quit Solo Play whenever they want to.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=97561&page=5

That thread, and another linked in there to a similar poll, pretty much dispels the Griefer Myth that's going around.

The other issue right now is the bug so that means

/thread

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Dumbest idea i saw, given how many DC's etc are going on in game atm.

I know, lets give me a 4.5m credit bill, because the server dc'd me for 5 seconds..

Since the latest patch, I can't play the game without it crashing to desktop after about 10 minutes. I haven't done this in combat because I've yet to be interdicted (would welcome it though ) so for now, I can't play the game so what with the game crashing, the bug present and people who disconenct at the first sign of trouble, everyone may as well just stick to solo or group play.

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

Pirating is not the same tasks as trading. Targets can fight back (I've had plenty of Cobra vs Cobra or Asp vs Asp fights while I try to limpet/shoot hatch while fighting), busting hatches/applying limpets is tricky. Trying to convince Type-6s with a death wish that suicide isn't a good idea. Trying to convince them that they probably don't want to go up to 250% heat and pop themselves. Each interdiction is different in their own way.

I meant pirating without taking loot vs pirating for the loot. Some people here in the forum even try to convince their targets to drop the cargo and than just do not bother to scoop it. Basically make them watch their cargo despawn or grab it back themselves. And I can relate to it as the scooping mechanic is kind of ... [placeholder].

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Dumbest idea i saw, given how many DC's etc are going on in game atm.

I know, lets give me a 4.5m credit bill, because the server dc'd me for 5 seconds..

That complain I can relate to at least.

 

[tagos]

Now you are far to generous.

Maybe, but trading and mining doesn't kill other players. Bounty hunting is kinda cool, I did it for the first time outside of nav points over the weekend (although only went for Wanted players). soon found that in my Asp interdicting doesn't pay off due to the huge cost of hull repair.

Trading seems okay. You can earn a lot of credits but it takes time and maybe tedium. What it needs is more and better NPC interdictions so you can't just run without shields safely. When I'm trading, which is mostly what I do, I want to be interdicted by npc's and if in Open I want to have to worry about what other players have on their mind.

Not really tried mining yet.

 

[Cmdr Effie Trinket]

Now, pay attention class-

Would i like PvP with other people? ....might partake in it, as long as i can control the risk.

There's irony in there somewhere, don't you think?

Open-world, open play, interactions with other human players, but only so long as you can control those human players and keep them at a level of competency that you can handle?

Sorry my friend, I just don't get that attitude at all. Still, be happy and play as you wish.

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

I think you misunderstand. Many PvEers love combat. I do! I love going to Nav points of combat zones and testing my skills against a variety of NPC pilots. An Elite/Dangerous Cobra/Viper for example will give me a nice challenge, that i will feel some satisfaction from beating. Of course, i don't get any real satisfaction from blowing up a harmless sidewinder... but i'm free to choose my targets or at least choose my exposure to risk.

Now, pay attention class - this is enjoyable for me. Maybe not for you, but for me, yes.

Would i like PvP with other people? Sure! I have no objection. Just as long as i choose that level of risk. Going into open for me is too high a level of risk. Sure, i might beat some players, i might lose, but the most likely scenario is I would be attacked by someone in a better ship than I have with superior flying skills. Hells, even if I get myself a full kitted out python at some point, i'd still probably lose to a majority of players, i'm simply not so skilled.

Also, there is no motivation for me to even do PvP. Or put it this way, let's say player bounties were 1000x higher than NPC ones... i still wouldn't be motivated to do it. I'm not playing this game for money (which is why often suggestions about making trading in open more profitable would encourage PvEers to move to open - the people writing such threads simply fail to understand the motivation of most PvEers).

So, back to PvP - might partake in it, as long as i can control the risk. For example, I might say to one of my friends, let's get two equally kittted out Vipers and have a pop at each other. That could be fun, we might both enjoy it. Even when losing. And neither of us would get upset by the fight.

However, tootling along in a Type-6, getting interdicted and blown up by someone in a Python. Especially by those who give no warning, and no option to drop cargo, just pew-pew. Yeah, but sorry, i'm not interested in that. No fun for me. Since i cannot control the risk of this when playing open (in other words, I have no idea if the player interdicting me is a good RPer who will play the pirate properly and demand cargo and then let me go OR whether they are just someone out to kill me for no reason), then I will not ever set foot in open.

I hope you understand it a little better now.

I completely understand that attitude and I am all in favor of having one CMDR of open, solo and private groups to give you the experience you desire. Just don´t log into open and than disconnect when someone might start a fight that is not to your liking. Stay in solo or group, it really is that simple.

 

[Tigga]

I meant pirating without taking loot vs pirating for the loot. Some people here in the forum even try to convince their targets to drop the cargo and than just do not bother to scoop it. Basically make them watch their cargo despawn or grab it back themselves. And I can relate to it as the scooping mechanic is kind of ... [placeholder].

Not piracy then. If you aren't interested in booty and rum and stuff, you're not a pirate.

 

[NeilF]

It for sure is more entertaining than fighting an elite anaconda which could not hit is way out of a paper bag. Even when I personally prefer not to hunt unarmed, unshielded and defenseless freighters, my pity for them is kind of low still. Their pilots chose this outfit for a reason and the reason is to not pay the opportunity costs of shields and weapons (and an escort in a few months). Should I now really feel bad about them when they feel bad about losing their ship? People don´t show much sadness when they hear of freighters making a mistake when docking and blow themselves up. Or when people got sended back to their sidewinder from npc pirates. Why should we feel specially sad about it when another player does it?

Fair comment. But we have to acknowledge:-
1) Some people in this game enjoy specifically blowing up other players, which is fine, but have no issue with blowing up traders who quite obviously cannot offer any true defense.
2) The game actively promotes traders to use ships which cannot stop a "pirate" from easily blowing them up. ie: A Lakon 6.

So some people enjoy (needlessly) blowing up basically defenseless CMDRs who are just trying to trade...

IMHO this is not a good game mechanic as the traders will simply stop playing in open. Then pirates wishing to play a more "fair" game and accept cargo as payment will not have CMDRs to prey upon.

As such I think CMDR (& NPC) murder needs a far greater penality - If a "pirate" CMDR interdicts a ship, and ends up killing them, then that needs a harsh penality... eg: A bounty that cannot be paid off for several gameplay hours (not real hours) etc...

Traders basically need to know they are fairly safe and most likely if they drop some cargo (as per demands) they will get away with no further costs. ie: They can pay 20,000CR. They will not end up with a needless 2mCR bill just because of another CMDRs desire to inflict some "grief" for kicks.

Keep in mind a pirate can forcibly open a cargo hatch if they wish, and get at the cargo. They can also cause hull damage too to inflict cost. But murder? That's another matter IMHO.

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

Not piracy then...

Yeah, that is why I said it not piracy, but like doing doing party the same, minus the parts that make you even more poor and are dull anyway

 

[Cmdr Millar]

Here Here - Well said CMDR.

I spent all weekend doing this, Interdicting players and have them chicken out. I think the idea of AI taking over is great, at least then i'd get to fight someone / something.

It just wastes so much time, you establish a teather (eventually) only to find yourself in empty space on your lonesome. Totally ruining the game. Sort it out FD

 

[Tigga]

Yeah, that is why I said it not piracy, but like doing doing party the same, minus the parts that make you even more poor and are dull anyway

Scooping doesn't make you poor....

I think we're playing different games. As I previously explained, I make money almost soley from piracy, and enjoy it that way. IMO the game is made up of may "sub-games". Progression by using only the fun sub-games is an interesting challenge in itself. I wouldn't value progression by trading because it's both easy, and not really that fun. I wouldn't feel much of a sense of accomplishment having traded my way up to the next modules or ship, because chances are I hadn't actually done anything challenging. Making money by piracy alone brings this sense of accomplishment, so the income from it is both not insignificant, and is important.

 

[tagos]

The lack of any real pay-off for a trader playing Open, against the huge risk is a problem it's hard to see a solution for given the implementation of the universe. I tend to play open for the potential danger but that's just me.

It's why all these proposals aimed at forcing mode choice will lead to even less people in open.

There's a reason MMO's circumscribe PvP, it's simply not something most potential and actual customers think is important. Even in a PvP game like ArcheAge you have to go to it rather than they other way round. And in the other MMO's I've played (SWTOR, GW2, Elder Scrolls, STO, LOTRO) you have to really go seek it out and most don't.

My most recent experience was Elder Scrolls and I took part in PvP for a time. But as usual what happened was devs started balancing classes around PvP regardless of the impact on PvE, which for some classes and builds was quite dramatic. It was one of the reasons I stopped subscribing.

IMHO there should be no balancing whatsoever done around PvP. It should be done purely around improving the PvE experience because it's one or the other. It seems impossible, in every game i've played to balance for both. If you try you end up making a mess of both.

I tend to play an archer/rogue class in most games and they always end up being a bit crap even in PvE because good PvE skills start being howled down as 'unfair' by PvP types. Balance for PvE and let the PvP chips fall where they will.

The really good PvP players, in my experience, are able to make lemonade out of lemons. The not so good ones, they're the ones continually bending the devs ear with subtle and not so subtle variants of 'nerf them, boost me' 'discussions'.

 

[Darian]

You seem to think that PvP is minor part of the game. Probably because, for you, you don't care for it and don't engage it? You may wish to consider that, in a game that clearly is in a state of constant, ongoing development, many do people like the PvP element and wish to see it developed and improved.

sorry but that deserves a rant

PvP developement takes ressources from developing other elements of the game.
So we have already spaceships with airplane flight characteristics (yes there is flight assist off but that is an joke), speed limits!, and limited range of weapons to get that dogfight feeling.
Oh and we can not have 3rd person view/cam or only very limited or the PvP player will cry bitter tears.

That looks for me as if the PvP punks already got a lot out of it!

Now lets develope trade that is more than zipping for and back between stations, planet landing and walking around inside stations, missions that make an sense and fun, and maybe then we develope PvP a little more again.
I am not in the mood to see an perfect good game destroyed on the altar of holy PvP because we all know only pvp is really playing the game and everything else is nothing but eyecandy and for carebears anyways.

Why do we have this big galaxy with thousands of stations if the only good thing is to hang out at lave and wait for the next moving target?

Yes it is fun. For three hours. then lets move on from holy PvP and do something else, because arcade was fun for me until i about 13, then i got other interests, too.

Why do online games always have to be tailored for the basement dwellers who are not allowed to vote yet? (Or the people who behave this way)

I know I know if it is not PvP in Elite it is called " Space trucking simulator" but really, there is more than PvP that can be fun, but so faar noone has found it because it has to be all tailored for PvP!

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

2) The game actively promotes traders to use ships which cannot stop a "pirate" from easily blowing them up. ie: A Lakon 6.

That challenge I actually want to accept.
You come with a cobra with at least 40 cargo space, and I will come with this: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=30W,CVvCVv01Q0mI0mI,314s6Q6Q3I4s3m6k,08c08c7RA0727fE7dg4xo
I can oneshot you, literally. And my shields are 20% stronger than yours. And all I have to do is charge my FSD to win or even just evade you in super cruise already.

Killing you 2 points, getting killed 1 point for you, having to give you my cargo 2 points for you, getting away into FSD one point for me. We play till someone reach 10 points? Who do you think as the better chances?