Hardware & Technical Need to build my son a £400 PC for ED - Advice appreciated

Jaito · Jan 18, 2015

Hi Guys,

My son often watches me playing on Elite Dangerous and we are desperate to buy him his own PC to play it on. He occasionally gets to play it on my somewhat dated PC and really loves it and I hate kicking him off but my PC is primarily for work, which he understands. Our budget is extremely limited (£400 max) but I want to at least get him something so he can play on med settings at an acceptable framerate (45fps would be great) so thought the best place to ask would be here. If anyone has built a system for around the same budget, please let me know what sort of components you used and how it plays, or if someone could recommend components that would be great.
My system is an i5 with a gtx 670 and it plays great, but I'm wondering if an i3 would play it well enough too? perhaps combined with an AMD gpu card solution. We have an old case, and will try and source a monitor off freecycle, but we will need to get CPU, Motherboard, RAM, power supply, and hard disk. Suggestions would be great, many thanks.

Cortana · Jan 18, 2015

AMD R9 270 GPU and AMD A10-7850K CPU. A i3 CPU is not for gaming. Get the cheapest 2x4GB 1600Mhz RAM, a 1TB HDD, 450-600W power supply and a cheap motherboard.

I think you should stay below 500$ that way.

Distance · Jan 18, 2015

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-3.html

i3 can be decent for gaming as it depends on budget.

StuartGT · Jan 18, 2015

While ED can run on a Dual-Core (i3) it's best getting a Quad-Core (i5, FX or A8) for futureproofing. Meanwhile Cooler Master do a quality 500W PSU for around £30.

Surfinjo · Jan 18, 2015

I'd also be looking at quad core, at least.

A good, powerful PSU, preferably modular, about 750Watts.

An SSD, about About 250Gb should be more than enough.

An external DVD. Internal DVDs run constantly, wearing down and can cause problems with other equipment.

Finally, the best graphics card you can afford with what is remaining.

This is a pretty good unit. Barebones costs £225. http://www.novatech.co.uk/barebonebundles/view/bb-66004c.html

Quad core.
4 Gb Ram
PSU is only 400W but they should be able to change that for you for very little extra.

That will leave you with enough for whatever more you need to add.

Cortana · Jan 18, 2015

Who the hell needs 750W? My PC (4770K, 2xGTX970 OC) needs maybe 500W while playing games.

StuartGT · Jan 18, 2015

Cortana said:
Who the hell needs 750W? My PC (4770K, 2xGTX970 OC) needs maybe 500W while playing games.

I've a CM 700W but admittedly it's driving two hungry 2x GTX 570's and an old school Phenom X3 OC'd. 500W is more than enough for the OP's son

Jaito · Jan 19, 2015

Hi Guys, thanks for all the info it's highly appreciated. Also thanks for the link to Novatech. I'd heard good things about them before so we went ahead and ordered the next one up from what you suggested - http://www.novatech.co.uk/barebonebundles/view/bb-63008f.html at £329 and also a Seagate 500G internal HDD at £37.
His older brother has a GPU we can try (a gtx560 I think) and borrow for now. Just got to sort a monitor and DVD drive, and he'll be good to go! I think I'm more excited than he is!

Thanks again folks,
Jaito

Hell Razor5543 · Jan 19, 2015

I built my own PC, and it isn't too shabby. I used to teach PC maintenance, and I would always tell my students that (in my opinion) the most important component was the motherboard, as this is the backbone that everything else communicates through. Upgrading other components isn't that difficult, and can, for the most part, be done without affecting the O/S that adversely. Replacing the motherboard is a full tear down and re-build, usually followed by a re-installation of the O/S and all the other software.

I have looked at the bundle you linked to, and it looks good with future potential for upgrading. One thing I always do (to stop my PCs from slowing down) is to fit a HDD dedicated to the swap file. Windows (I do not have much experience of other O/Ss) always creates a swap file regardless of how much memory the PC has (my PC has 32GB, and there is currently a 2.4GB swap file running, in spite of the fact I have over 20GB RAM available). A client of a company I used to work for tried this out on a system (the client was an architectural design), and, after a couple of weeks, implemented it on all their PCs.

StuartGT · Jan 19, 2015

Jaito said:
Hi Guys, thanks for all the info it's highly appreciated. Also thanks for the link to Novatech. I'd heard good things about them before so we went ahead and ordered the next one up from what you suggested - http://www.novatech.co.uk/barebonebundles/view/bb-63008f.html at £329 and also a Seagate 500G internal HDD at £37.
His older brother has a GPU we can try (a gtx560 I think) and borrow for now. Just got to sort a monitor and DVD drive, and he'll be good to go! I think I'm more excited than he is!

Thanks again folks,
Jaito

Looks good! The motherboard is a great model from a quality brand, and hex-core CPU will be fine for years - my triple-core isn't being stretched yet! The PSU being 'Novatech' may not be quality but they do claim 80% efficiency so it should do. If you're happy with the performance of the GTX 560 you'll try, they can be bought second hand very cheap, as can the faster 560 Ti & 470's which are also bargains.

Surfinjo · Jan 19, 2015

Jaito said:
Hi Guys, thanks for all the info it's highly appreciated. Also thanks for the link to Novatech. I'd heard good things about them before so we went ahead and ordered the next one up from what you suggested - http://www.novatech.co.uk/barebonebundles/view/bb-63008f.html at £329 and also a Seagate 500G internal HDD at £37.
His older brother has a GPU we can try (a gtx560 I think) and borrow for now. Just got to sort a monitor and DVD drive, and he'll be good to go! I think I'm more excited than he is!

Thanks again folks,
Jaito

That is an excellent piece of kit. Those specs will show their worth, believe me.

I bought my machine as a barebones, from Novatech in 2007. It is still going strong. I've replace the PSU, the graphics card and some fans. Otherwise I'm currently running Elite Dangerous and many other things on it with little or no problems.

I recall, when I bought mine, a number of people commenting that few things will ever use the Quad cores, dual perhaps. Now it' s almost compulsory!

The good thing about it is with this approach, you can upgrade easily.

One thing, on mine, I had to put the CPU in the socket myself. It isn't as difficult as you might think but needless to say, do get a decent earthing strap. If you are not confident, then it may be worth the price of a couple of pints to get someone who is experienced, do it.

They have a good helpline, do use it, those guys were the best for me.

Jaito · Jan 19, 2015

Thanks for the feedback guys, and the useful info again. I shouldn't have too much problem putting the cpu in if need be, as ive done a few before, but thanks for the info it's really appreciated.
It's due for delivery tomorrow, if it comes early enough I should be able to get it together, install windows/anti virus etc, and get ED up and running as a surprise for him when he gets home from school and walks into his room.

Can't wait to see the little mans face.

All the best guys and thanks again

Hell Razor5543 · Jan 19, 2015

I am not sure if I am going to get 'griefed' for this, but Microsoft do have their own anti virus package for free. I have no issues with it, and it does not hog system resources. My cousin, who is a professional programmer, suggested it to me, and he has not had it get in his way when coding. Once you have got the system built, and the O/S installed, go to Microsofts' website and search for MSE (Microsoft Security Essentials). You will have to do this from the machine in question, as part of the initial downloading process is that their system will diagnose your O/S and automatically select the correct downloader program (as the one for Windows 7 32bit is different for that of Windows 7 64bit). They will not pop this onto the O/S disks, as they got in trouble when they bundled Internet Explorer with Windows.

Jaito · Jan 19, 2015

Thanks Hell Razor, I didn't know that, but will take a look at it. We do find Avast (free) pretty good though which we've been using for a few years now, though will take a look at the Microsoft one. Thanks again for the useful info

Surfinjo · Jan 19, 2015

Hell Razor5543 said:
I am not sure if I am going to get 'griefed' for this, but Microsoft do have their own anti virus package for free. I have no issues with it, and it does not hog system resources. My cousin, who is a professional programmer, suggested it to me, and he has not had it get in his way when coding. Once you have got the system built, and the O/S installed, go to Microsofts' website and search for MSE (Microsoft Security Essentials). You will have to do this from the machine in question, as part of the initial downloading process is that their system will diagnose your O/S and automatically select the correct downloader program (as the one for Windows 7 32bit is different for that of Windows 7 64bit). They will not pop this onto the O/S disks, as they got in trouble when they bundled Internet Explorer with Windows.

I don't use the M$ version myself, but understand from those that do, they have few problems with it. It's certainly hassle free and very automatic.

Hell Razor5543 · Jan 19, 2015

If anybody is interested, the swap file trick is very simple. You fit a HDD that you dedicate just for the swap file. It needs to be at least twice the size of the maximum potential memory possible to fit to the system. I always name it "Swap File", so as to clearly indicate its' purpose. Once you have done this, go digging around in the device manager, advanced settings, until you come across the option for Virtual Memory (there are various names and locations for this, depending on what version of Windows you are running). In there, you need to change the settings so as to remove the swap file/virtual memory from all but the drive you have fitted, and then allow the system to manage the file on this drive (you will get warnings that changing these settings could cause problems). Once all this has been done you will need to restart the machine, to allow the settings to take effect.

This does not make the PC run faster. It does, however, help stop it from slowing down when disc thrashing happens (when the system needs to access files on the primary drive and the swap file at the same time).

Jaito · Jan 19, 2015

Hi, I really thought swap files were a thing of the past unless you have very small amount of memory. I expect gamers with 8GB/16GB ram these days this sort of thing won't be a problem unless lots of programs/tasks open at once. If possible I'd thought it better to recommend getting more RAM. With 8GB on my system, it can multitask pretty well. Though I must admit if I'm gaming, I usually shut as much down as possible before hand so the game runs smoother etc, so I guess it would help if I didn't follow that process, not sure.
Anyway thanks for the info

Surly_Badger · Jan 19, 2015

You may want to consider that your gaming system won't need a lot of HD space.

Mine is built with a pair of 120GB SSDs ($57@) in a RAID-0 supported on the motherboard. For about $50 you can get racks ($25 from Rosewill or Icy Dock) that support 2 2.5" drives in a single height bay. My system disk is the SSD-RAID and it's really really snappy. I only went to the SSD-RAID because a few years ago I had a system disk on an SSD and it wore out, now I don't care. A friend of mine did some benchmarks with the hybrid SSD/HDD drives and they suck. (Check Ron's results on uberadmin)

(Edit: One reason SSDs kick ass for gaming is because if the game is a typical design with a large resource file that gets accessed in order to load discrete chunks of data e.g.; that ker-chunk sound, or the texture on that whatsit - there's zero seek time involved as it's retrieved. Usually game designers try to take advantage of locality of reference in their resource files but that depends on the geometry of the hard drive so their ability to do so is limited. Since SSDs are pure random access memory, seek time is always zero. If you look at benchmarks of SSDs versus HDDs you'll see that where they really shine is random access and where HDDs do well is large block writes. Well, other than at install time, large block read/writes aren't what games generally do except in cut-scenes. Either way, the SSD will give a huge speed boost.)

Hell Razor5543 · Jan 19, 2015

Jaito said:
Hi, I really thought swap files were a thing of the past unless you have very small amount of memory. I expect gamers with 8GB/16GB ram these days this sort of thing won't be a problem unless lots of programs/tasks open at once. If possible I'd thought it better to recommend getting more RAM. With 8GB on my system, it can multitask pretty well. Though I must admit if I'm gaming, I usually shut as much down as possible before hand so the game runs smoother etc, so I guess it would help if I didn't follow that process, not sure.
Anyway thanks for the info

You would think so, especially on systems with very high levels of memory (mine has 32GB of DDR3 1,600MHz RAM), but (I have just checked) there is a 2GB swap file in use DESPITE the fact that, of that 32GB, only 6GB is being used! I could disable the swap file, but Windows (and, by inference, Microsoft) does not 'think' this is a good idea regardless of how much memory you have fitted. My system, by the way, only has SSDs (so no HDDs), and scores 7.4 on the Windows 7 benchmark.

Surfinjo · Jan 20, 2015

Surly_Badger said:
You may want to consider that your gaming system won't need a lot of HD space.

Mine is built with a pair of 120GB SSDs ($57@) in a RAID-0 supported on the motherboard. For about $50 you can get racks ($25 from Rosewill or Icy Dock) that support 2 2.5" drives in a single height bay. My system disk is the SSD-RAID and it's really really snappy. I only went to the SSD-RAID because a few years ago I had a system disk on an SSD and it wore out, now I don't care. A friend of mine did some benchmarks with the hybrid SSD/HDD drives and they suck. (Check Ron's results on uberadmin)

(Edit: One reason SSDs kick ass for gaming is because if the game is a typical design with a large resource file that gets accessed in order to load discrete chunks of data e.g.; that ker-chunk sound, or the texture on that whatsit - there's zero seek time involved as it's retrieved. Usually game designers try to take advantage of locality of reference in their resource files but that depends on the geometry of the hard drive so their ability to do so is limited. Since SSDs are pure random access memory, seek time is always zero. If you look at benchmarks of SSDs versus HDDs you'll see that where they really shine is random access and where HDDs do well is large block writes. Well, other than at install time, large block read/writes aren't what games generally do except in cut-scenes. Either way, the SSD will give a huge speed boost.)

This is exactly how I have my system set up now.

I upgraded to SSDs when my last HD bit the dust. Nothing lasts forever of course. But since getting SSDs, it's a new game entirely.