Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Cpt.Badger]

How about this: they said I can be a pirate ("Some may know you as an ally; others will call you a pirate, a bounty hunter, a smuggler, an explorer, an assassin" - ED,s main page)

- but the vast majority of players trade in solo mode so there's nobody to hunt

aaand:

- NPCs have RANDOM CARGO so there's no planning, no finding "lucrative spots"

So I can't really be a pirate in this game ?

Again, false advertising right on the main page.

 

[AgentGB]

Somthing that may interest some

Hello Commanders!

A couple more points:

Having your ship be controlled by some form of AI when you log is not straightforward (otherwise we would have done this already! )

There's an interesting sentiment that keeps cropping up: if you make it harder to escape from aggressors, then I'll be forced back into solo. I'd like to ask, is this a player-only issue, or would it include NPCs. Because the idea we've always had for trading is that being attacked is the core game play risk.

In fact, I'd posit that one of the reasons (not the only one, obviously) trading is so much more profitable is because there's little risk of losing your ship or taking much damage, or losing cargo (feel free to disabuse me of this notion if you have evidence to the contrary!)

Now I certainly don't want to see traders getting slaughtered like lambs in an eternal spring, but I want to make it clear that being attacked/placed in significant danger has always been part of our plans for the trader role.

I tend to skim read, so all i saw was "slaughtered like lambs in an eternal spring" and thought jolly good. But i hope for Open, unless NPC's are made just has difficult, there is alittle income multiplier, if not i suppose increased NPC difficulty may be the answer for a slight equal footing among the varies modes. If trading in solo is far more profitable due to the very low risk from players, then harder NPC's will fill this void, although i still think there should perhaps be a slight multiplier to income in open imo.

 

[DaveB]

Bro, where do you think those people who farmed 200 million in credits and than sit out Lave no fire made their money?

By playing the game. Other than that I don't care.

The rare runners in the Lave loop, do you think those people play open? Do you think pirates can actually pirate with no people in open?

Well, when I was running rares out of the Lave cluster I did. Got into a couple of memorable fights with other players, also successfully negotiated a reduced "price" with a couple of pirates too.

I think it's un fair to force solo players to play open. But to say the experience is not diminished is just solo player arrogance talking.

How has your experience been diminished? Please cite your evidence, bearing in mind that the plural of anecdote is not data.

Its like most of the people who hate pvp or other players never played a normal mmo before and wonder why ppl are confused about the MMO here.

Nothing wrong with PvP. Nothing wrong with "normal MMOs". Nothing wrong with the grouping mechanics in ED either. On that last point our opinions may differ but that is how this game works. Like it or lump it.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

So I can't really be a pirate in this game ?

Again, false advertising right on the main page.

You can, being a pirate even works in Solo Mode. Lots of NPC Ships to go after.

 

[ianw]

How about this: they said I can be a pirate ("Some may know you as an ally; others will call you a pirate, a bounty hunter, a smuggler, an explorer, an assassin" - ED,s main page)

- but the vast majority of players trade in solo mode so there's nobody to hunt

aaand:

- NPCs have RANDOM CARGO so there's no planning, no finding "lucrative spots"

So I can't really be a pirate in this game ?

Again, false advertising right on the main page.

It might be considered false if you couldn't pirate NPCs - but you can - so to say you can't be a pirate in this game is ... false!

 

[Cpt.Badger]

You can, being a pirate even works in Solo Mode. Lots of NPC Ships to go after.

No you can't. You can't be a pirate if there are no players to hunt AND all the NPC's carry RANDOM CARGO.

All you can do now is go some random place and pray to the RNG gods for some random cargo to drop. There are no trade routes to 'camp', no trading NPCs to gank. So it is all about "pure luck". If profits are completely random, then it isn't really a "profession".

Sure you can shoot some mindless NPCs, but that ain't pirating. Nowhere near close.

 

[Numinosum]

Lots of posts of people saying if you weren't allowed to switch into solo from open mode - that this means effectively they are 'forced' into either solo or open.

Suggestion:

If FD implements having at least 3 multiple commander profiles you can have a commander in each of the game modes - you are not forced into any mode.

Players that have already built up a commander could be given 2 clones of their current commander at the time of this change in mechanic - so that they could choose to progress in whatever game mode they want from now on - all of them if they want to!!!, without having to 'grind' a new profile.

New players could have a trial switching period of say 10 switches, so that new players can try out the different game modes. (Or they could just create 3 new profiles and try the game modes that way).

As a player you would still be able to switch between Open and other modes - but not with the same commander. A commander would be 'forced' to inhabit one game mode, but as a player you can switch game modes as you please.

I realise this is a cost to people who want the switching mechanic as it is - but imho it is a small price to pay for the benefits in game mechanics that I believe would be generated in Open mode.

Just to re-iterate - with multiple commanders, as a player you can play any mode you want at any time. If you like SOLO play - no-one would be forcing you into Open mode. If you like Open mode no-one would be forcing you into Solo mode. If you want to play different modes as your mood dictates, you can. If you are an experienced player who has built up a commander you could be given clones of your current commander that you could continue developing in all the modes should you choose - you would not have to 'grind' a new commander.

One final point which I just want to stress - none of these changes would have any impact on any players that just want to play ED as a single player in solo, or with a group of friends in Group, or who want to play in different modes as the mood takes them. The only groups of players these changes would effect would be those who want to switch between modes with the same commander - AND - imho, ANY player who would want to play one of their commander profiles in open - because imho it would create a much better open mode for them to play in....whenever the mood took them

 

[Phosphora]

Frontier has recognised that people will want to play in different ways over time. Personally I think they've got it about right.

Hard day at work? Perhaps the smooth, gradual, peaceful progression of trading in Group or Solo will suit you. None of that aggression that was forced on you earlier in the day.

Boring Sunday afternoon? Perhaps you're after the adrenalin rush of PvP. Tool up that Viper and engage with other humans!

That's why separate modes are needed, and why switching between modes is needed. And please don't tell me that each save should be stuck in a particular mode. I'm not interested in grinding an extra player or two up to a decent level, just to quell some unproven fears.

Cheers, Phos.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

Little question, ever read the game's Kickstart page?[\QUOTE]

Why would I read some kickstart page? I bought a full release game that touted the following features on it's web site:

- Take control of your own starship in a cut-throat galaxy.
- 400 billion star systems, blaze your own trail
- Some may know you as an ally; others will call you a pirate, a bounty hunter, a smuggler, an explorer, an assassin, a hero... Fly alone or with friends, fight for a cause or go it alone

 

[ianw]

Lots of post of people saying if you weren't allowed to switch into solo from open mode - that this means effectively they are 'forced' into either solo or open.

Suggestion:

If FD implements having at least 3 multiple commander profiles you can have a commander in each of the game modes - you are not forced into any mode.

Players that have already built up a commander could be given 2 clones of their current commander at the time of this change in mechanic - so that they could choose to progress in whatever game mode they want from now on - all of them if they want to!!!, without having to 'grind' a new profile.

New players could have a trial switching period of say 10 switches, so that new players can try out the different game modes. (Or they could just create 3 new profiles and try the game modes that way).

As a new player you would still be able to switch between Open and other modes - but not with the same commander. A commander would be 'forced' to inhabit one game mode, but as a player you can switch game modes as you please.

I realise this is a cost to people who want the switching mechanic as it is - but imho it is a small price to pay for the benefits in game mechanics that I believe would be generated in Open mode.

Just to re-iterate - with multiple commanders, as a player you can play any mode you want at any time. If you like SOLO play - no-one would be forcing you into Open mode. If you like Open mode no-one would be forcing you into Solo mode. If you want to play different modes as your mood dictates, you can. If you are an experienced player you be given clones of your current commander you could continue developing in all the modes should you choose - you would not have to 'grind' a new commander.

But for many people it's not just about bringing stuff from solo to open - they also don't want solo having any effect on the open sim - that's the major new server/background sim bit...

There is only one sim/game regardless of mode.

 

[T@F]

Little question, ever read the game's Kickstart page?[\QUOTE]

Why would I read some kickstart page? I bought a full release game that touted the following features on it's web site:

- Take control of your own starship in a cut-throat galaxy.
- 400 billion star systems, blaze your own trail
- Some may know you as an ally; others will call you a pirate, a bounty hunter, a smuggler, an explorer, an assassin, a hero... Fly alone or with friends, fight for a cause or go it alone

The last part sums up the game nicely.
Fly alone or with friends, fight for a cause or go it alone.

 

[Daffan]

You can, being a pirate even works in Solo Mode. Lots of NPC Ships to go after.

I bet he loves killing the AI that cant even shoot back because their too busy trying to align their ship.

 

[Cargobane]

I wonder if this will be page 100 of the Never Ending Story...

{drat, I guess not..}

 

[Calador]

Nope but this is - aww pooh

 

[Traven Mayhem]

I wonder if this will be page 100 of the Never Ending Story...

{drat, I guess not..}

Don't knock it. This is an important discussion. how FD decides to see open world PVP, grouping, conflict and mutiplayer gameplay out will ultimately decide the fate of this game -- many, many thousands of gamers are waiting for the next couple patches to decide if they are going to purchase this game or not, and the thing they are most interested in his how multiplayer, PVP and open vs closed pans out -- if they mess it up, the initial christmas sales spike is the last they will ever see.

If they get it right, you can probably expect to see another 300,000 units sold after 1.2 patch hits over the next year.

 

[DarkWalker]

Why would I read some kickstart page? I bought a full release game that touted the following features on it's web site:

- Take control of your own starship in a cut-throat galaxy.
- 400 billion star systems, blaze your own trail
- Some may know you as an ally; others will call you a pirate, a bounty hunter, a smuggler, an explorer, an assassin, a hero... Fly alone or with friends, fight for a cause or go it alone

Interesting, I've been searching in the store page and the game's page and, apart from a cryptic mention of "free-for-all group battles", I can't find mention of PvP anywhere. Did you merely assume that there would be PvP beyond those "group battles" based on your wishes rather than actually checking to see if there was actually PvP?

In fact, even multiplayer is barely mentioned in the game's store page. And the bullet points you mentioned make it sound more like a co-op game in a large scale galaxy than a MMO.

 

[DaveB]

Why would I read some kickstart page? I bought a full release game...

So it's somehow the games or the developers fault that you failed to do any kind of due diligence? You purchased a product based purely on its own advertising website, without even exerting a little google-fu to determine exactly how it lives up to that advertising or exactly how the features you saw advertised were implemented?

Caveat Emptor.

Seriously, does anyone purchase products, particularly software, like that without even the most basic research? You asserted earlier in the thread that you hadn't heard any statements from DB to the effect that this isn't designed to be a primarily PvP experience, now admittedly I knew they existed so perhaps had an easier time finding a quotable example than you would have but it's just another example of you shelling out your cash without the slightest idea of exactly what you were buying. I've no sympathy whatsoever.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

Interesting, I've been searching in the store page and the game's page and, apart from a cryptic mention of "free-for-all group battles", I can't find mention of PvP anywhere. Did you merely assume that there would be PvP beyond those "group battles" based on your wishes rather than actually checking to see if there was actually PvP?

In fact, even multiplayer is barely mentioned in the game's store page. And the bullet points you mentioned make it sound more like a co-op game in a large scale galaxy than a MMO.

m8 stop splitting hairs in some effort to 'prove me wrong'. this is a multiplayer game, with built in open world PVP mechanics, like it or not. We're just asking for those mechanics to make sense and be meaningful. Every review I read of the game while it was in beta spoke at length about 'open world PVP' happening everywhere, and group play coming.

There exists here a golden opportunity to create a living, breathing universe where players interactions are meaninful, and we're literally standing on the first step of a long stairwell up. It would be a crying shame if the devs took what exists here, and just made it into some PVE only freelancer clone.

 

[ianw]

Don't knock it. This is an important discussion. how FD decides to see open world PVP, grouping, conflict and mutiplayer gameplay out will ultimately decide the fate of this game -- many, many thousands of gamers are waiting for the next couple patches to decide if they are going to purchase this game or not, and the thing they are most interested in his how multiplayer, PVP and open vs closed pans out -- if they mess it up, the initial christmas sales spike is the last they will ever see.

If they get it right, you can probably expect to see another 300,000 units sold after 1.2 patch hits over the next year.

Do you know these many thousands of gamers and their wishes personally?

Are you absolutely certain there aren't many thousands more who will like it exactly as is/with the improvements that are in the pipeline?

Really?

 

[Traven Mayhem]

So it's somehow the games or the developers fault that you failed to do any kind of due diligence? You purchased a product based purely on its own advertising website, without even exerting a little google-fu to determine exactly how it lives up to that advertising or exactly how the features you saw advertised were implemented?

Caveat Emptor.

Seriously, does anyone purchase products, particularly software, like that without even the most basic research? You asserted earlier in the thread that you hadn't heard any statements from DB to the effect that this isn't designed to be a primarily PvP experience, now admittedly I knew they existed so perhaps had an easier time finding a quotable example than you would have but it's just another example of you shelling out your cash without the slightest idea of exactly what you were buying. I've no sympathy whatsoever.

Sympathy for what exactly? I'm not complaining about my purchase. I'm putting my thoughts about the direction of the game into a thread where the player base has been asked to do so. Get off your high horse. I get it, you disagree and you want PVPers to essentially get kicked to the curb and given little of what they want. You are free to hold that opinion. Don't start wagging your finger at me. 50 bucks is lunch money. I bought this game because I love spaceships, and MMO's and it is the only contender in the space to come along in almost 14 years -- I want to see it turn into a great game, not just remain a mediocre one. Cope.