Imperial Slavery is still Slavery!

[Sentenza]

As has already been said and needs repeating. they are not slaves they are Imperial Slaves. It is not slavery, but Imperial Slavery.

See? Such doublespeak is why I hate the Empire. We know we are not perfect, we know not everything works well, we don't pretend evil is good by giving it a Fancy Name.

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others"

 

[TANDKO]

Also, I already posted this in another thread, but it seems like an appropriate thing to post here, as well:

I fail to see how is that relevant? Do not forget that a lot of people here doesn't have anything to do with the US. So your US standards are not applicable.

 

[Whiterose]

See? Such doublespeak is why I hate the Empire. We know we are not perfect, we know not everything works well, we don't pretend evil is good by giving it a Fancy Name.

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others"

Talking of double speak....Democracy: voting as per the wishes of corporate greed.
You buy people to vote in a certain way, we just buy people.

 

[streki]

Do not forget that a lot of people here doesn't have anything to do with the US.

Hah - the US fell over a thousand years ago.

 

[Flying Penguin]

uppercut!

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Careful, you might break a nail.

If you do insist on using such crude methods.....

 

[TANDKO]

See? Such doublespeak is why I hate the Empire. We know we are not perfect, we know not everything works well, we don't pretend evil is good by giving it a Fancy Name.

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others"

And yet you've done it right away in the same post. That is hilarious

 

[Virgil Kyle]

They're free once their debt is paid.

Oh, I'm sure it's that simple. I'm sure no one would abuse the system.

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See? Such doublespeak is why I hate the Empire. We know we are not perfect, we know not everything works well, we don't pretend evil is good by giving it a Fancy Name.

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others"

Well said.

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I fail to see how is that relevant? Do not forget that a lot of people here doesn't have anything to do with the US. So your US standards are not applicable.

It's talking about the Empire, dude. I'm breaking the fourth wall - Deal with it.

 

[Poseidal]

What do they call Federal slaves?

 

[Captain Breton]

slaver, me? *ghasps truly shocked*

Am I a slaver simply because I don't read -every- cargo manifest of what I haul?
I haul thousands of tonnes a week from starsystem to starsystem, as long as my customers pay the freight-fare I rarely ask what's in the containers.

Ignorance is an excuse

 

[Flying Penguin]

Oh, I'm sure it's that simple. I'm sure no one would abuse the system.

Imperial Slavery provides an opportunity to honour their debts, it does not simply provide a free meal ticket for those unwilling to work.

If people are too weak minded to work off their debt without incurring additional debt then, my good fellow, there is no helping them.

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What do they call Federal slaves?

Welfare claimants.

 

[simon terlecki]

The way that I understand how the Empire treats its internal version of slavery is that it's not too dissimilar from someone working a job without a chance to change his fortune for several years because of life circumstances (be it financial, or family or health) except for the fact that the imperial slave knows exactly when his trial will end whereas the other one doesn't.

While I am wholly against actual slavery (that even as the Federation claims to be against, still let happen within their borders), the way imperial slavery seems to be structured doesn't seem too different than getting hired by a temp agency and being shipped off to X and Y places to fill it needed workers.

 

[xondk]

I think the correct word is, Indentured servitude for what imperial slaves are really, and according to the lore I can read about it, that seems to be what it is, meaning there are actually some things protecting the 'slave' and they only work for x amount of time until their debt is paid off. Is it slavery, sorta, yet not. Its kinda like people that go to prison to pay off debt, however instead of prison these actually live and work for their owner, until debt is paid. Its a gray area in my eyes, is it possible they are treated just as bad as slaves? it is possible, depending on the owner, but it is quite a bit less likely.

 

[QziQza]

What you wrote above is not the experience for 99% of Imperial Slaves in the Empire. There are laws that protect slaves against exactly the kind of behavior your describing above. A slave doing a job is paid, at minimum, 80% of what a free Imperial citizen would, only their pay goes to their owner until their contract is fulfilled. Also by law, their owner is required to meet a certain standard of health care, housing, and nutrition. And by law, this standard is at the owner's expense, and is not to be counted against the slave's contracted debt. Many slave owners feel that honor requires that they exceed the minimum standards required by law, and for most they are a status symbol, a way of flaunting their wealth while helping their fellow Imperial citizens down on their luck.

When slavery is done according to law, it is an honorable and safe to way to get out of debt, to escape a bad situation, or even to better their position in life. It is better than the Federation's practice of shafting the people you owe money to by declaring bankruptcy, or living off the public dole. And studies have shown that an Imperial Slave enjoys a better standard of living, and has a longer life span, than a supposedly free citizen in the Federation, unable to get ahead due to corporate practices and the high levels of taxation in the Federation.

The reason why slavery is a contentious issue in the Empire is that some slave owners abuse the system. Dishonorable slave owners fail to meet the bare minimum the law requires, attempting to squeeze a profit off their labor. Imperial Slaves are sometimes abducted by their owners and taken outside the Empire and its protections, where slavery isn't regulated. Sometimes they're abducted and then "freed" far from home, and lack the money or connections to survive, let alone return to their family and friends. And most people who sell themselves into slavery don't have the luxury of researching who they sell themselves to, and choosing those who treat their slaves well. For most, they go into the general market, with no guarantee that some day they'll be forced into a stasis chamber, and take away by someone who feels that all slaves are the same.

It is unfortunate that Imperial Slavery, as with any other system, is open to abuse. The very same thing can be said about Federation prisons. Prisons not just for violent criminals, but also for citizens, who through bad choices owe money to the state. Are we to beleive that all Federation Prison facilities are free from corruption or crime? The Federation places its criminals and debtors behind bars, ours choose servitude. Personally, I feel that the Empire has a far superior system, once those in servitude have completed their term, they are free and thier debts marked as paid. In the Federation those released are permanently marked as being a Criminal. Emperial Citizens are not held back for making the honorable choice of placing themselves into servitude, the same cant be said for the Federations convicted counterpart.

 

[TANDKO]

It's talking about the Empire, dude. I'm breaking the fourth wall - Deal with it.

Sorry, but you are a bit clumsy doing that, dude.

 

[Virgil Kyle]

What you wrote above is not the experience for 99% of Imperial Slaves in the Empire. There are laws that protect slaves against exactly the kind of behavior your describing above. A slave doing a job is paid, at minimum, 80% of what a free Imperial citizen would, only their pay goes to their owner until their contract is fulfilled. Also by law, their owner is required to meet a certain standard of health care, housing, and nutrition. And by law, this standard is at the owner's expense, and is not to be counted against the slave's contracted debt. Many slave owners feel that honor requires that they exceed the minimum standards required by law, and for most they are a status symbol, a way of flaunting their wealth while helping their fellow Imperial citizens down on their luck.

When slavery is done according to law, it is an honorable and safe to way to get out of debt, to escape a bad situation, or even to better their position in life.

And powerful and influential people are NEVER going to break the law, or try to take advantage of a system of legalized human bondage. The history of slavery throughout the span of human history has ever been marked by misery and oppression and depravity, but the Empire finally managed to make it work the right way. Sure...

It is better than the Federation's practice of shafting the people you owe money to by declaring bankruptcy, or living off the public dole. And studies have shown that an Imperial Slave enjoys a better standard of living, and has a longer life span, than a supposedly free citizen in the Federation, unable to get ahead due to corporate practices and the high levels of taxation in the Federation.

Discounting the bogus 'studies' you just made up, and your obvious ignorance of what bankruptcy actually is, you make good points here. The Federal government taxes WAY too much, and is beholden to corporate interests. People end up on the dole because of a strangling of good, honest (read: NOT crony) capitalism, and they stay on the dole because it's easier than working, and such reliance on government handouts suits the supporters of bigger, more intrusive government just fine, as it increases their power and influence over others. The solution is a movement for less government, and less taxes and regulations and government-corporate cronyism to go along with it. Not slavery.

The reason why slavery is a contentious issue in the Empire is that some slave owners abuse the system. Dishonorable slave owners fail to meet the bare minimum the law requires, attempting to squeeze a profit off their labor. Imperial Slaves are sometimes abducted by their owners and taken outside the Empire and its protections, where slavery isn't regulated. Sometimes they're abducted and then "freed" far from home, and lack the money or connections to survive, let alone return to their family and friends. And most people who sell themselves into slavery don't have the luxury of researching who they sell themselves to, and choosing those who treat their slaves well. For most, they go into the general market, with no guarantee that some day they'll be forced into a stasis chamber, and take away by someone who feels that all slaves are the same.

Thanks for making my point for me Your bit about profit is particularly telling. Of course people want to make a profit! Everybody wants to improve their condition - Proper capitalism enables people to enter into voluntary arrangements to do so, and enables them to leave if they find the arrangement unsatisfactory. Slavery will always be a trade in human misery, no matter how you try to regulate it or dictate how it 'should' be practiced. People are going to be people, so you need a system that acknowledges and works off of that fact, instead of a fancible system that expects people to conform to an unrealistic ideal of behavior. There will never be a perfect slavemaster, as there will never be a perfect enough person to be one.

 

[Llewelyn]

Because minimum wage service, slum housing and payday loans is living a life of freedom. It's a similar trap with no contractual end to it.

 

[Virgil Kyle]

Sorry, but you are a bit clumsy doing that, dude.

As I said - Deal. The concept of roleplaying a slavemaster is not something to be taken lightly, in a game or otherwise. Apparently it is for many of you.

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Imperial Slavery provides an opportunity to honour their debts, it does not simply provide a free meal ticket for those unwilling to work.

If people are too weak minded to work off their debt without incurring additional debt then, my good fellow, there is no helping them.

I was talking about the slavemasters.

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Welfare claimants.

Very true.

 

[Flying Penguin]

I was talking about the slavemasters.

Two sides of the same coin. If I was to give my slaves free food and board, surely I would be giving charity? Normal requirements of commerce don't disappear simply because the unfortunate are given an opportunity to redeem themselves.

Charity is demeaning to both parties. The practice of charging for food and board ensures that no further shame is placed on their heads. If this results in them staying in my care longer, so much the better. A win-win if you will...

 

[Darkfyre99]

What do they call Federal slaves?

Corporate employees.

Employees in perpetual debt to the "company store" are fairly common in corporate run systems, and its perfectly legal, thanks to bought and paid for representatives.

 

[amigacooke]

As has already been said and needs repeating. they are not slaves they are Imperial Slaves. It is not slavery, but Imperial Slavery.

Ah, but is it M&S Imperial Slavery?