Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Flyinpiranha]

Ok.

So my bait worked.

Now, you people say you want a fair fight right ? You want PvP to be fair ?

So, how is this fair, when somebody makes A TON OF MONEY, trading OFFLINE and then switches to ONLINE and blows my PKr's *** out of the sky with his vastly superior ship, he earned in the safety of offline mode ?

How is that fair ?

It's fair because you both have the ability to do so. That is the very dentition of fair. Now, if that person's game came with a special Only-This-Guy-Can-Play-Solo Mode, then you'd have a good argument. It's available to anybody.

"But I don't wanna"
"But you can, it's a choice you are personally making"
"But I don't wanna"
"But it's fair, you can CHOOSE to do this, just as easily as anybody playing the game"
"But I don't wanna"

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

It's fair because you both have the ability to do so. That is the very dentition of fair. Now, if that person's game came with a special Only-This-Guy-Can-Play-Solo Mode, then you'd have a good argument. It's available to anybody.

"But I don't wanna"
"But you can, it's a choice you are personally making"
"But I don't wanna"
"But it's fair, you can CHOOSE to do this, just as easily as anybody playing the game"
"But I don't wanna"

But the rules of the Race to Elite say I can't

 

[Evil]

If you have no interest in cargo or bounties then that is neither piracy nor bounty hunting - it's simple murder.

Or War ! Wars are good ! or is that organised murder ? oooo personal perspective opinions !

 

[LordBad]

It's okay one way, but not the other?

ROFL all the way to the loo cause I need to pee!

Well in one situations players CAN do something about in the other there is nothing you can do about.

Besides contrary to popular belief this actually makes the problem worse because now pirates use the same trade routes as traders offline to make money to buy their expensive ships to use in online piracy.

I personally have no problem with people playing online or offline but I do think these should be separate accounts. Either you play online or offline but switching back and forth cheapens the game.

 

[Cpt.Badger]

It's okay one way, but not the other?

Well but it's completely fair if there are separate saves for offline and online.

A dedicated trader usually has WAY MORE CREDITS than most PKers will earn in their whole "career". This easily offsets the fact that his hauler stands no chance against a combat vessel. He replaces the vessel and goes on his merry way, while the PKer usually struggles to pay "his bills" and replace his ships.

There is NOT ONE single game on the market where PKing for profit (aka pirating) makes more profit than dedicated trading.

A dedicated trader will always have more money than a dedicated PvPer. In a game where CREDITS ARE THE ULTIMATE GOAL, I see it's a pretty fair situation, no ?

 

[LordBad]

If you have no interest in cargo or bounties then that is neither piracy nor bounty hunting - it's simple murder.

I have a legitimate interest its just not bounties or cargo.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I have a legitimate interest its just not bounties or cargo.

Care to share?

 

[Joe Spivey]

Ok.

So my bait worked.

Now, you people say you want a fair fight right ? You want PvP to be fair ?

So, how is this fair, when somebody makes A TON OF MONEY, trading OFFLINE and then switches to ONLINE and blows my PKr's *** out of the sky with his vastly superior ship, he earned in the safety of offline mode ?

How is that fair ?

How do you know the player didn't make all his money in Open? Very easy to do, just go somewhere quiet.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

But the rules of the Race to Elite say I can't

Oh, so another choice you are making.

"But I don't wanna"

 

[withnail]

Seconds out, round... erm, which round is this?

52 at a conservative guess

 

[LordBad]

Care to share?

I want to destroy the factions in the system I'm in, I blow up the security forces and anyone trying to trade with any of the stations.

 

[Joe Spivey]

But the rules of the Race to Elite say I can't

But is not the decision to take part in the Race to Elite also not a choice?

 

[DarkWalker]

then dont be suprised people wont use the open play anymore because hey newsflash, people dont like to be on the wrong end of a unfair fight.

Or, in some cases — myself included — don't want to be on an unfair PvP fight at all. If I'm wiping the floor with my opponent, with no chance of him to recover, I will often leave the fight out of boredom. Winning when my victory was guaranteed isn't fun or enjoyable in any way.

---

Wait... what ? Challenge ? This isn't an e-sport game. As such, PvP in non e-sport games isn't meant to provide "fair fights" and "challenges". Ganking a trader SHOULD be like taking a candy from the baby.

Judging by your words it's pretty obvious that you don't play to many PvP games.

Associating "PvP" with "challenge" and "fair fights" is a very wrong assumption.

Assuming all PvP is about challenges and fair fights is a wrong assumption, I agree. There is a whole class of PvP about setting up the fight to the player's advantage, trying to make the result a foregone conclusion before the first shot is even fired. It's a kind of PvP I could never enjoy, and I doubt I ever will, but I do acknowledge its existence.

But assuming everyone would enjoy PvP, or even that everyone that enjoys PvP can enjoy the kind of PvP where fights often aren't fair, is an even more wrong assumption.

Thus, allowing players to basically turn off those unfair PvP interactions is a very good thing indeed for the game and its longevity. Far better than chasing away players that either don't like PvP or are picky about it. More so because PvP was never a selling point of this game, not to the extent that being able to avoid PvP was at least.

And a small reminder: this game is supposed to be the successor of a series where PvP never existed. If the devs can't make the pure PvE experience at least as good as that of the 30 years old game that started it all, and that is still played (either in its original version or the open source remake) even today, they are doing something very wrong. This game doesn't need PvP in order to improve its longevity.

Ok.

So my bait worked.

Now, you people say you want a fair fight right ? You want PvP to be fair ?

So, how is this fair, when somebody makes A TON OF MONEY, trading OFFLINE and then switches to ONLINE and blows my PKr's *** out of the sky with his vastly superior ship, he earned in the safety of offline mode ?

How is that fair ?

According to many players that trade in open, any half competent trader can make as many credits in open just by properly selecting routes that are both safe and with a good payout. So, no, no real advantage, and the whole thing is fair.

And that is even without taking into account that anyone in open is allowed to jump into a group, or solo, any time he wants. Which makes things even fairer.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I want to destroy the factions in the system I'm in, I blow up the security forces and anyone trying to trade with any of the stations.

Right - sounds legit - still not piracy (or bounty hunting) though....

 

[Joe Spivey]

Well but it's completely fair if there are separate saves for offline and online.

A dedicated trader usually has WAY MORE CREDITS than most PKers will earn in their whole "career". This easily offsets the fact that his hauler stands no chance against a combat vessel. He replaces the vessel and goes on his merry way, while the PKer usually struggles to pay "his bills" and replace his ships.

There is NOT ONE single game on the market where PKing for profit (aka pirating) makes more profit than dedicated trading.

A dedicated trader will always have more money than a dedicated PvPer. In a game where CREDITS ARE THE ULTIMATE GOAL, I see it's a pretty fair situation, no ?

Credits are not the ultimate goal. Credits are a means to an end. What that end is, however, is up to you. I agree that a dedicated trader will likely always have more money that a dedicated PvPer, but that is the result of the choice made by the player.

 

[LordBad]

Right - sounds legit - still not piracy (or bounty hunting) though....

Well my point is that there is no way for the mechanic to know "why" I'm doing something, nor can a player. The assumption that because I attacked you and didn't give you a reason, doesn't mean I'm some douchbag killing people for LOLz. I'm establishing a reputation in the system I'm. I have done all sorts of evil stuff to prevent trades from going through, once I even suicided it on a type-6 as it was docking like a terrorist. That player has no idea that the system he is trading with is an independent system, but was not to long ago a Federation system. I have every intention of staying in the system and making it right and if lots of players have to die in the process, so be it.

 

[Dreossk]

One player taking the wrong way in the mail slot made me quit open play for good.

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

But to take part in the Race to Elite is also a choice.

One that can only be made once. Can't flip flop in and out of the running like you can flip flop in and out of solo. Once you go solo you are disqualified. Why do you think they made that distinction?

So again, I agree choice is good. Make it once and stick with it.
People can try to put words in my mouth all they want but I still say feel free to choose Open, Group, or Solo but it isn't FAIR to be allowed to move between the modes as it confers advantage. The rules of the Race to Elite seem to suggest the devs concur.

People can claim that if you stand on one leg, put your head to one side, squint down your nose and pat the top of the head that things can be said to be fair either way.

But we ALL know that isn't really so. ALL of us.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well my point is that there is no way for the mechanic to know "why" I'm doing something, nor can a player. The assumption that because I attacked you and didn't give you a reason, doesn't mean I'm some douchbag killing people for LOLz. I'm establishing a reputation in the system I'm. I have done all sorts of evil stuff to prevent trades from going through, once I even suicided it on a type-6 as it was docking like a terrorist. That player has no idea that the system he is trading with is an independent system, but was not to long ago a Federation system. I have every intention of staying in the system and making it right and if lots of players have to die in the process, so be it.

Indeed - which is probably why players assume the worst about the attacker who is neither after their cargo nor bounty. Maybe disrupting trade need not end in destruction every time - a warning to leave the area might work (to some extent)....

 

[Cpt.Badger]

Credits are not the ultimate goal. Credits are a means to an end. What that end is, however, is up to you. I agree that a dedicated trader will likely always have more money that a dedicated PvPer, but that is the result of the choice made by the player.

But it's not me crying that I want more credits for PvP. I'm fine with that as it was my choice.

It's all the traders whining that they don't feel safe in open play.

See the difference ?