Infinite Suply Trade Route and Commodity Duping

FenixInTheSky

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I do not get Frontier at all.... there are obvious large problems in this game that have yet to even be patched for a long time now.
What is Frontier focusing on because the way they are "developing" is not healthy for the game whatsoever.


There are two huge problems in the game currently that I find quite game breaking.


One problem has been in Luxury Trading in the system Beta Sculptoris. There have been hundreds of players spam farming this trade route. It is being considered the "unicorn route" and the goto place to make large sums of money with streamers broadcasting the ens out of the route. Now the problem with this route is that hundreds of people can spam farm without the Performance Enchancer supply EVER depleting. This has been happening for weeks.... all day long every day and you see the Performance Enchancer numbers NEVER go bellow 80k. They always fluxuate between 80k-100k. The profit gain is 1358/t, in a type 9 that is 679,000 per 3 minutes with 500 cargo space, as it takes only ~3 minutes for one round trip to the Luxury nav point and back to the station. (if I got fast enough which is not hard)


You can do this route 24/7 without any worry for the supply to be depleted bellow 80,000 or the price to ever lower. So now that those who have read this, know this, have a hay day people!! Maybe Frontier will realize something is fishy and do something about it.


The second, LARGER, problem that is occurring is that duping still works! DUPING STILL WORKS SINCE ALPHA!
Now I am not going to spell out how this happens, but essentially the jist of it is that you can buy a bunch of a high cost commodity and dupe the product and sell it for it's full amount. This has been a very disheartening discovery that this "KNOWN" problem since Alpha is still in the game.


If stuff like this continues.... I just do not know. I'd much rather not have this wonderful game trashed. I would like the population to increase, not decrease. This wont happen with the way things are going.


Please Frontier, slap your QA people into shape and get some major fixes going at faster rates
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
FenixInTheSky said:
The second, LARGER, problem that is occurring is that duping still works! DUPING STILL WORKS SINCE ALPHA!
Now I am not going to spell out how this happens, but essentially the jist of it is that you can buy a bunch of a high cost commodity and dupe the product and sell it for it's full amount. This has been a very disheartening discovery that this "KNOWN" problem since Alpha is still in the game.
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Have you ticketed the issue?
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Major fixes at faster rates will not happen. FDev should take the time they need to fix things properly, a rushed patch will just fix one thing and create dozens of new bugs.

Is there a dev statement regarding supply/demand? Hope they fix it soon, will this be done in a major or minor update?
 
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FenixInTheSky

F
Post from previous thread on the issue.

FalconFly said:
This is more of a problem of the (apparently) artificial economic engine.
The way I see it, there's no actual consideration or relation between available resources, production capabilities and resulting supply levels.

Those Type-9's being able to absorb ludicrous amounts of tonnage is just another flaw (you can Cargo-Scan them, even after taking >1000 tons from other Players their actual Cargo hold won't have moved an inch).
It's all just articifial and scripted - with none of the required backlinks, interconnecions and flow that an actual economy would experience.
And it's the same when delivering 500tons of a Commodity that a Station has a total Demand of i.e. only 250. It'll still read 250 Demand after your oversupply - and price paid remains the same. Makes no sense.

Just like NPCs and their ships just spawn out of nowhere, go nowhere and simply despawn somewhere, so does production. And when delivering something - it'll simply vanish into nowhere.

Not sure what you mean by duping, I only recall early incidents of jettisoned/abandoned Cargo scooped up again sometimes left the Canister actually still float around (despite Cargo count was increased) - but I assumed this was long fixed.
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CmdrSimonsen

C
If duping requires dumping cargo, and scooping it up, then it will only have an impact very early on. It doesn't require that great a trade route and a large hold before it's just faster to trade, compared to scooping dupes up.

I do agree that the impact on supply/demand should be larger with that big a player activity, and as far as I know FD are still tweaking that logic.

Luckily, the impact of those bugs/features for me are neglible, and I don't see how it would scare a large amount of players away from the game.
 

FenixInTheSky

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Tony2438 said:
I think there are a lot more things more inportant that need fixing first
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Like what? It would be good to post such things like here to elaborate on the severity of these problems.

So far I have not found anything as severe than what I have posted. So it will be good to know. :)

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CmdrSimonsen said:
If duping requires dumping cargo, and scooping it up, then it will only have an impact very early on. It doesn't require that great a trade route and a large hold before it's just faster to trade, compared to scooping dupes up.

I do agree that the impact on supply/demand should be larger with that big a player activity, and as far as I know FD are still tweaking that logic.

Luckily, the impact of those bugs/features for me are neglible, and I don't see how it would scare a large amount of players away from the game.
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Regarding the commodities... me and my group were testing things out and the commodities were duped in the cargo hold as well. Not going to spell this out whatsoever... but it happens.
 

Daffan

Daffan
Comrade! Backround Simulation YES YES! The AI keep restocking the Enhancers for us to sell! Yes !

looool
 

Vagabond

Vagabond
Wow. Surprised to read a thread which didn't turn out to be hysterical in tone. I kinda agree.

Those do sound like glaring issues, making a mockery of the economy and the earning power of other Cmdr's not farming this route.
 

BigBadB

B
FenixInTheSky said:
It has been ticketed since it was first discovered long ago by many people.
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I believe that they changed to a new ticket system around about the time of release, so it would probably be a good idea to submit a new ticket for the duping thing, just to be sure it hasn't gotten lost somewhere.
 

dr.zli

D
i bought stock in pfizer intergalactic a month ago and I'm now reading this forum from my luxury home in Lave while I sip on a finest brandy and smoke expensive cigars. God bless ED syndrome :D
 

FenixInTheSky

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Vagabond said:
Wow. Surprised to read a thread which didn't turn out to be hysterical in tone. I kinda agree.

Those do sound like glaring issues, making a mockery of the economy and the earning power of other Cmdr's not farming this route.
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This is very true. Also I am not saying what Vagabond has clarified IS the problem that will kill the game's population. It is how Frontier handles these problems (or lack of I should say) that will kill the game. If this is their business plan. It will not work.

BigBadB said:
I believe that they changed to a new ticket system around about the time of release, so it would probably be a good idea to submit a new ticket for the duping thing, just to be sure it hasn't gotten lost somewhere.
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It's been ticketed. Also, their customer support does not really exist honestly.... but I still pray it will help in some way. I have had a ticket in since December 1st and have yet to receive a reply. It was discussing another glitch of the game. I know many others who have had tickets in for many weeks, with no reply.

I just do not know... and it really worries me. I like this game a lot. :/
 

deMangler

deMangler
FenixInTheSky said:
This is very true. Also I am not saying what Vagabond has clarified IS the problem that will kill the game's population. It is how Frontier handles these problems (or lack of I should say) that will kill the game. If this is their business plan. It will not work.



It's been ticketed. Also, their customer support does not really exist honestly.... but I still pray it will help in some way. I have had a ticket in since December 1st and have yet to receive a reply. It was discussing another glitch of the game. I know many others who have had tickets in for many weeks, with no reply.

I just do not know... and it really worries me. I like this game a lot. :/
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It worries me too.
I am optimistic though. Micheal has said they are hiring and so-on to improve the support, or something like that. Also the willingness of high-tier devs to participate a lot in the forums, which they do with quality posts, makes me think that they want to solve these problems but it is just early days and they are learning.
We can say they should have done this or that, but they do appear to be sorting it.
I am hopeful.
 

BigBadB

B
FenixInTheSky said:
I have had a ticket in since December 1st and have yet to receive a reply. It was discussing another glitch of the game. I know many others who have had tickets in for many weeks, with no reply.
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As I said, they switched to a different system, so a ticket from before launch might not exist any more.

(Not defending them, just saying that if you want a response it's probably an idea to send a new one.)

I just do not know... and it really worries me. I like this game a lot. :/
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They have acknowledged the issues with support - I get the impression that they just underestimated the volume of tickets they'd get. Apparently they have been expanding the customer support team and are trying to catch up on the backlog, so let's hope things improve.

With that said, I wouldn't worry too much about the Beta Sculptoris thing - the profits are good, but not orders of magnitude higher than you can achieve from many trade routes.
 
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FenixInTheSky

F
Bangfish said:
Wow, this is rather disturbing.
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Exactly... too bad this does not seem to be a hot topic... was hoping this would raise some awareness... push FD to do something.

Maybe people rather just not accept this... don't want their precious game to be slandered. :p hehe I don't know, just wish this were more important to the players. WE are the ones most affected by these problems.
 

FenixInTheSky

F
BigBadB said:
As I said, they switched to a different system, so a ticket from before launch might not exist any more.

(Not defending them, just saying that if you want a response it's probably an idea to send a new one.)


They have acknowledged the issues with support - I get the impression that they just underestimated the volume of tickets they'd get. Apparently they have been expanding the customer support team and are trying to catch up on the backlog, so let's hope things improve.

With that said, I wouldn't worry too much about the Beta Sculptoris thing - the profits are good, but not orders of magnitude higher than you can achieve from many trade routes.
Click to expand...


Yeah my tickets are sent using the new system.

I beg to differ on the profit gain... I have tried the route.... and it is far better than any route I have ever done in a large type ship. My timer indicated a 3-4 minute travel time for 670k in profit gain. This is huge in my opinion. That is not even the main problem. The simple fact that the supply does not dwindle is huge to me.

Know that this "unicorn" route is the top streamed route when they trade. People have been raving about it due to how good the route is.

When it comes to a game that has a vastly large amount of trade routes to run, and if a mass amount of people start farming only ONE out of many trade routes for an infinite amount of time, I easily think this is a major problem. No one route should become the "mainstream" route. (that therein should be a warning flag indicating a problem) I hope others sympathize.
 
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