Remove system jump lock (not the system permit)

[Johaunna]

I think that a system lock (that prevent direct hyperjumps) is an immersion break. It not realistic that I cannot jump to a system. What kind of device can lock an entire solar system?
I understand this solution from a dev point of view as the easy way to implement it... but I think that better solutions are available.
Examples:
Give the player the ability to jump anywhere ...but with consequences:
If they don't have the permit to stay in a sys, they will be persecuted like criminals.
Going in a system without a permit should be like smuggling things.
They should be flagged as SOS, or Wanted, or Criminals.
If caught make them pay a fine or something like.

 

[Bigskill]

I think that a system lock (that prevent direct hyperjumps) is an immersion break. It not realistic that I cannot jump to a system. What kind of device can lock an entire solar system?
I understand this solution from a dev point of view as the easy way to implement it... but I think that better solutions are available.
Examples:
Give the player the ability to jump anywhere ...but with consequences:
If they don't have the permit to stay in a sys, they will be persecuted like criminals.
Going in a system without a permit should be like smuggling things.
They should be flagged as SOS, or Wanted, or Criminals.
If caught make them pay a fine or something like.

I really Support this proposal.
I hate to have restriction, is not realistic at all.
I hope someone at Frontier could listen, and modify the game so we can be free to jump everywhere at our own risk of course!!!!

 

[cyberus]

add to this docking restrictions and everthing would be fine. No permit......no docking

 

[Johaunna]

add to this docking restrictions and everthing would be fine. No permit......no docking

Exactly... good suggestion.

 

[streki]

What kind of device can lock an entire solar system?

Your drive/computer locks onto the largest body of mass in any system.

That's why you pop out at the central star.

Presumably ship computers have built in failsafes whereby they refuse to lock on to any star in a system where you don't have a permit (to protect both the populace of the system from external attack, and the pilot from prosecution)

have I misunderstood your question?

 

[Johaunna]

Your drive/computer locks onto the largest body of mass in any system.

That's why you pop out at the central star.

Presumably ship computers have built in failsafes whereby they refuse to lock on to any star in a system where you don't have a permit (to protect both the populace of the system from external attack, and the pilot from prosecution)

have I misunderstood your question?

Sadly, every thing I said

 

[streki]

Sadly, every thing I said

well thanks for clearing that up with such sarcasm.

back to the main forums I go.

 

[Johaunna]

well thanks for clearing that up with such sarcasm.

back to the main forums I go.

I'm sorry. I don't really know what to say except read my first post again. I don't know any other way to explain this matter.

 

[Komemiute]

@Jouhanna:

Actually he didn't misunderstand anything. He told you quite clearly that:
- since you nav computer has lock to largest body of mass in any system.
- and nav computer know what system has the requirement for a permit
- we can safely assume nav computer checks if you have the permit, and in case you don't...

Nav computer does NOT let you jump.


Also... Chill pill man. Two per day, after eating.
We're all friends here.

 

[Johaunna]

@Jouhanna:

Actually he didn't misunderstand anything. He told you quite clearly that:
- since you nav computer has lock to largest body of mass in any system.
- and nav computer know what system has the requirement for a permit
- we can safely assume nav computer checks if you have the permit, and in case you don't...

Nav computer does NOT let you jump.


Also... Chill pill man. Two per day, after eating.
We're all friends here.

I'm sorry. I'm not angry or sarcastic, I'm really sorry if it seem so. I just don't know the language very well and I'm trying to explain what i have in mind , probably, without the right level of knowledge to do it well and to manage the answers.
Now I understand what do you mean.
My point is that the nav computer shouldn't decide for you where to go.
I mean if the computer, check your " system permit" why don't let it check the legal status of your cargo!?
The computer must serve you, as owner, not the rules of this or that solar system.
So why a nav computer should stop your jump?

 

[Komemiute]

No worries man, we're all friendlies here

That said, well- there ARE lot of things that makes little to no sense in this game- and that's for Gameplay reasons.
This is one of those...
Let's assume that since the Nav-Computer is made and validated by the Federation of Pilots it perform that check as to keep pilots in line. They have, after all, the Founder's system and want no punk to mess with them.

I agree that how the Nav Comp was implemented in Frontier or First Encounter was more... realistic?.. yet still this is how it works now. Whether we like it or not.

 

[Arsen Cross]

Your drive/computer locks onto the largest body of mass in any system.

That's why you pop out at the central star.

Presumably ship computers have built in failsafes whereby they refuse to lock on to any star in a system where you don't have a permit (to protect both the populace of the system from external attack, and the pilot from prosecution)

have I misunderstood your question?

This response assumes your ships computer is locked and un-modifiable and requires you to jailbreak it like an iPhone to be able to control your own ship. I don't know about you but I'd never stake my life on a starship that was programmed to disallow me from doing anything without giving me the ability to bypass it. It's simply not realistic. I support the proposal unless somekind of lore friendly mechanic is outlined.

 

[Im_Lost]

I think you should be able to jump in. But authority ships should chase you off and fine you. Plus stations not grant docking permission.

 

[Uueerdo]

I thought I read something about it requiring the mass of a star to allow a ship to exit hyperspace. If I am not wrong on that, there could just be an array of emitters that somehow mask the mass of those system's stars and only disengage for the microsecond it takes for a detected hyperspace traveller to exit. Of course, that is a bunch of handwavium, but so is the ability to even be able to jump to a system in the first place.

Sidenote: Of course, if I am not wrong on that, then I am still confused why jumps take varying amounts of fuel, and why longer ones take more.
But I can explain that away to myself; in hyperspace, the FSD emits a structural integrity field that consumes fuel (and takes increasingly more fuel to maintain as time elapses) to keep the ship from turning into dust scattered across light years...or, the longer you are in hyperspace, the more energy it takes to exit.

 

[Moose Malloy]

Maybe the device that locks the star system is not your onboard nav computer, but the in-system nav beacon? Not only does your nav computer lock onto the large mass of the star, it must also receive a confirmation signal from the nav beacon, like a transponder. Maybe this controls your jump, so you don't jump too far and land in the star. In some systems, the beacon signal might be scrambled by the system authorities, requiring a permit to unlock it. Without an unscrambled signal, your FSD cannot calculate the jump accurately enough to risk it. Does that make it less immersion-breaking?

It doesn't get you what you want, but perhaps illustrates that a small device could lock down an entire system, if that's how FSDs work.


EDIT: Uueerdo and I are thnking along the same lines

 

[Iskariot]

I think that a system lock (that prevent direct hyperjumps) is an immersion break. It not realistic that I cannot jump to a system. What kind of device can lock an entire solar system?
I understand this solution from a dev point of view as the easy way to implement it... but I think that better solutions are available.
Examples:
Give the player the ability to jump anywhere ...but with consequences:
If they don't have the permit to stay in a sys, they will be persecuted like criminals.
Going in a system without a permit should be like smuggling things.
They should be flagged as SOS, or Wanted, or Criminals.
If caught make them pay a fine or something like.

I completely agree.
The current unrealistic and artificial method of locking systems is immersion breaking and it also removes possible very exciting game play.

It would be impossible to dock at any law abiding station of course. So the cmdr would have to find a pirate station in the system to dock.
Also if caught he should become wanted immediately and perhaps even get hostile status with the faction owning the system.
But there could be very lucrative missions for those willing to risk all this.
Smuggling for example would get a whole new level of intensity.

When spotted, imperial navy ships might jump in to hunt you and even a pirate station would refuse you access out of fear for the consequences.

Maybe the device that locks the star system is not your onboard nav computer, but the in-system nav beacon? Not only does your nav computer lock onto the large mass of the star, it must also receive a confirmation signal from the nav beacon, like a transponder. Maybe this controls your jump, so you don't jump too far and land in the star. In some systems, the beacon signal might be scrambled by the system authorities, requiring a permit to unlock it. Without an unscrambled signal, your FSD cannot calculate the jump accurately enough to risk it. Does that make it less immersion-breaking?

It saddens me to see such a good and acceptable explanation for not being able to jump to certain systems .
As I explained I feel we miss out on some cool game play possibilities.

EDIT: but would your explanation not simply mean we should be able to use the same method of jumping as we do when we enter systems where no one has gone before. We do not need nav beacons then.

 

[Arsen Cross]

The nav beacon argument is kind of a moot point to me and doesn't really compute because you're still creating a situation where your ship is being told what it is and isn't allowed to do from an external source and we are back to jailbreaking.

I could however accept a technology that masks the mass of a star. That is if the mass is what our FSD's are locking onto. (I'm an elite newb so I don't know the lore on the tech yet).

I will say though our current technology for identifying the distance of a star, which would be required for an FSD jump is done one of two ways, either measuring the visual size over a course of six months using trigonometry and triangulation or measuring the brightness of the star.

Maybe the Nav beacon or something else in-system is capable of masking the brightness of the star or altering it in such a way that you must have a permit to access it. But the permit is actually a algorithm synced to the stars modified light adjustments. Think of it as a mobile authenticator like WoW or SWTOR uses for logging into your account.

Basically this "mobile authenticator" permit is a coded key listing off the various spectrums the star is modified to give off. Jumping to the system becomes impossible without this permit because the light spectrums change so rapidly that the FSD drive can't calculate the jump distance. The key negates this effect by essentially viewing those light spectrums in their specific order as a single spectrum the FSD is capable of locking onto and calculating a jump to.

(EDIT) That idea was inspired by this article: http://science.howstuffworks.com/question224.htm

Fun stuff.... lol

 

[Defacto]

All realism discussion aside - the way it works now is boring.
I think there would be lot of fun to be had if we could override permit requirements.

Of course, system security should become a threat before this is added, because doing this should have serious repercussions.
Those systems that are locked off because they are to be saved for the future should just have an ''Unknown FSD failure'' message instead.

The nav beacon argument is kind of a moot point to me and doesn't really compute because you're still creating a situation where your ship is being told what it is and isn't allowed to do from an external source and we are back to jailbreaking.

I could however accept a technology that masks the mass of a star. That is if the mass is what our FSD's are locking onto. (I'm an elite newb so I don't know the lore on the tech yet).

I will say though our current technology for identifying the distance of a star, which would be required for an FSD jump is done one of two ways, either measuring the visual size over a course of six months using trigonometry and triangulation or measuring the brightness of the star.

Maybe the Nav beacon or something else in-system is capable of masking the brightness of the star or altering it in such a way that you must have a permit to access it. But the permit is actually a algorithm synced to the stars modified light adjustments. Think of it as a mobile authenticator like WoW or SWTOR uses for logging into your account.

Basically this "mobile authenticator" permit is a coded key listing off the various spectrums the star is modified to give off. Jumping to the system becomes impossible without this permit because the light spectrums change so rapidly that the FSD drive can't calculate the jump distance. The key negates this effect by essentially viewing those light spectrums in their specific order as a single spectrum the FSD is capable of locking onto and calculating a jump to.

(EDIT) That idea was inspired by this article: http://science.howstuffworks.com/question224.htm

Fun stuff.... lol

Well it's a good attempt to try and base this in the lore, but I don't think the tech level for the humans in Elite allows for things like blocking or disrupting starlight. It's pretty hard, because there's quite a lot of starlight to disrupt...
And besides, we don't need to wait for 6 months to calculate the distance with trigonometry if we have FTL travel.

 

[Arsen Cross]

Well it's a good attempt to try and base this in the lore, but I don't think the tech level for the humans in Elite allows for things like blocking or disrupting starlight. It's pretty hard, because there's quite a lot of starlight to disrupt...
And besides, we don't need to wait for 6 months to calculate the distance with trigonometry if we have FTL travel.

The current method is boring, but I have yet to fall victim to it. I did however think how ridiculous it was when I discovered I can't get to Sol at all without a permit. Prohibit me from docking without a permit, fine, but traveling there in general? Stupid.

My explanation is an attempt to justify it with something lore-like or based on science that doesn't rely on our ships being controlled by someone other than their pilot. External control in real life opens things up to hackers, and pirates would just resort to electronic warfare to take over ships if that was possible and start scrambling traders FSD computers with false permit requirements to keep them from entering hyperspace. As someone who bypasses intended computer software mechanics on a daily basis I know this type of thing would happen with externally affect ship systems as proposed by others within this thread so far.

Either way, I'd love to see some kind of dev approved scientific explanation as to HOW FSD jumps are being prevented to permit required systems. I sure gave it my try and with a little more education on how FSD's operate in the lore, I may actually be able to come up with a realistic excuse for this boring mechanic.

 

[Fishy]

The nav beacon argument is poor considering you can jump to any star in the galaxy where supposedly no one has ever gone before to set up a nav beacon.

Jumping in restricted systems and being fined/hunted and denied docking FE2/FFE style feels neater. It also opens up opportunities like restricted systems where a civil war could result in a minor faction controlling a station and opening it up to non-permit-holders, or rich and restricted private mining systems where money's to be made in the rings, but at the cost of being hunted down and having to jump in and out for each mining run.