Can it be compared to the X series?

[azdour]

I'm not sure I agree with Elite Dangerous NOT being an RPG - if by RPG you mean Role Playing Game.

Not every RPG out there is determined by numbers and statistics.

My Role is going to be an explorer and I will be Playing it as much as I can but in the end I know it is a Game.

But other than that I am with you in your portrayal of what I also believe Elite Dangerous is.

 

[kilvenny]

Two words describe what for me differentiates Elite - Infinite possibilities.

Elite was the first and only game I have played where I felt that I could go where I liked in the manner that I wanted at any time. Part way through the game I could change my strategy without penalty. The galaxy was so big you were never going to visit it all.

Generally when I have played games its either level driven or you are forced into a particular play style to survive or grow and you can sense you are either being gently or forcibly guided along a path way. I played Lords of Midnight and that was a stupendous game but the world was limited in size so whilst you could explore it was finite.

I am 50, I played Elite at 21. I was having kids when the later versions came out so never played them. There are not many games that make the hairs curl on the back of a fifty year old's neck after 30 years, but mine did when I saw the kickstarter last year. Elite for me was a game changer and I am expecting to be seriously gaming in 2014 for the first time in 30 years.

 

[bitrogue]

Not every RPG out there is determined by numbers and statistics.

Fair enough, I agree that there are too many variations on RPG style games to be dogmatic over what can be acceptably called and RPG and what can't. On the other hand, all I wanted to show was that it wasnt a game that determined outcomes based on player statistics. How would you suggest I categorize that kind of game?

 

[Rabcor]

Interesting Kilvenny, although there is a flaw with this system and that is that everything is automatically generated, an example is the automatically generated Oblivion vs hand crafted Morrowind or Skyrim, doing something by hand has always brought about a greater result than automating the process, however thanks to automation they were able to vastly increase the scale of the game and the exploration aspect... More of you older generation people should be gaming by now, the market has changed so games are more accessible. Besides when you're in a retirement home another 30 or 40 years from now (maybe) what could possibly be a better passtime after all! (Or thats how i see it...)

As for categorizing of games, the games categorizing system is completely and utterly ... Almost everything can be categorized as an action game simply because there's combat in it... if you think about it too almost everything can be categorized as an RPG since almost without exception you play the role of some very specific character or a character you created... The only categories that aren't blatantly stupid are RTS(real time strategy), TBS(turn based strategy), VN (visual novel), FPS (first person shooter), Puzzle. These are the only categories i can think of that really describe the game well and you can understand at least a little bit about what kind of game it is just with this tag.

i mean.. Hack & Slash? come on!! isn't that just everything where you've got a melee weapon and beat stuff up? Shooter? Isn't that every game where your primary weapon is a gun?

I think games need to be categorized more after elements... such as "First Person" or "Third Person", do you control "One Character" or "Multiple Characters" is it "Sandbox" or is it "Story Driven" (it can be both of course) what kind of atmosphere does it have? (Horror <- Amnesia, Fantasy<-Fable, Dark Fantasy<-Dark Souls, Comedy<-Sam & Max...)

and things like that, games need a descriptive tag system, games have largely outgrown their silly categories.

But in modern categories i'd just tag elite as an MMORPG, same tag as Star Citizen will no doubt get. That describes it litte... better would be Sci-Fi, Space Sim, Economy Sim, Dogfighting Sim, First Person, Sandbox, Single-Character, Multiplayer... or something along those lines.

Look at X3's categorizing for example... "Action, Simulation" that doesn't justify anything!

All our game categorizes are are Biased Stereotypes, nothing more and nothing less. They are just a stupid system. Hating on a game category is not dissimilar to hating on a ethnicity, gender or people with certain sexual preferences just because of the actions of a few.

 

[Zak Gordon]

I've tried to understand what this game is all about but the info is just... minimal, theres not even a feature list....

Well Elite: Dangerous is a new version of the Elite game series, so your best bet is to google about that, probably starting here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_(video_game)

As it is a new version there is not a full feature list yet as those features are still in development (one of the downsides of Kickstarter projects). Once you have understood the history of the series and read up on all the older games in the series you othe question about the X games will be fully answered

Then you'll just have to do what the rest of us do and wait for updates and new info on the state of development of this newest version, Elite: Dangerous.

It's been looking pretty good so far with all the info in the updates we have seen so far.

 

[azdour]

Fair enough, I agree that there are too many variations on RPG style games to be dogmatic over what can be acceptably called and RPG and what can't. On the other hand, all I wanted to show was that it wasnt a game that determined outcomes based on player statistics. How would you suggest I categorize that kind of game?

I think when I read your original post I read 'NOT an RPG' as being too literal when in fact as you say above it's a specific type of RPG you are describing that Elite is not.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Interesting Kilvenny, although there is a flaw with this system and that is that everything is automatically generated, an example is the automatically generated Oblivion vs hand crafted Morrowind or Skyrim, doing something by hand has always brought about a greater result than automating the process, however thanks to automation they were able to vastly increase the scale of the game and the exploration aspect... More of you older generation people should be gaming by now, the market has changed so games are more accessible. Besides when you're in a retirement home another 30 or 40 years from now (maybe) what could possibly be a better passtime after all! (Or thats how i see it...)

Well, to be precise, it's automation in combination with game developers and artists. See, automation itself doesn't give anything, but if you add additional algorithms and ideas and art, you can get pretty random, and pretty unique experience. As David told in those early videos, ED is not only because he wants to do another Elite game, but he wants to do procedural generation a justice. In his opinion it is shunned because developers lack expertise on how to use it and therefore everyone falls back on using handcrafted assets which limits game a lot (corridor shooters anyone?).

 

[Rabcor]

You guys should take a look at Limit Theory if procedural content generation is so cool, my looking at it gave me a bit better understanding of it since that game is just one big mass of PCG (even the AI...). I can see it's potentials.

But the fact remains, unless correctly utilized it can easily fail. It's much harder to make it succeed than you make it sound, and i'm still a bit skeptical about whether Limit Theory will succeed in its goals or not, but we'll see soon enough, and same with Elite, although i'm much less skeptical when it comes to Elite, since the people behind Elite have been doing that PCG since the 1980s.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

One of the things which PCG can do is exploit the size it gives to mean it doesn't have to be a perfect 'hit' every time.

Take the original Elite, for example: it has 2,048 systems. To store the data for that many systems without PCG would have taken (with 1 byte for X and 1 byte for Y) 4k of memory just to position the systems. Another two bytes would be needed per system to store economy type, government type, tech level and inhabitant. That's 8k just for the very basic system data, and none of these places even have names yet. The BBC B only had 32k total, and a significant proportion of that was needed for OS and graphics memory.

But nowadays memory isn't an issue - true, but over 25 years later how many space games (other than those also using a PCG map!) have more than 2000 systems? (bearing in mind that the 2000 was a deliberate decision by Bell and Braben to keep the number small) Very few are that big.

If you have 10 systems, or 100, you can't afford to have many "boring" ones. They all have to be "interesting" in some way.

If you have 2000, or 2 million, or 2 billion, they don't all have to be interesting. They can also become interesting in ways you might not have thought of.

So, let's go back to the original Elite map.
- in Chart 5, there's a trail of industrial systems in the north east forming a loose chain, ending in a double system only reachable by following the chain. Are these industrial systems vulnerable to the rough Feudal system at the start of the chain holding them to ransom by privateering any agricultural convoys?
- in Chart 8, there's a single system disconnected from the rest of the chart. It doesn't have the technology to produce galactic hyperdrives, either. It's not obvious how you get in - and if you do, how do you get out? Yet, there seems to be a stable outpost of civilisation there... Who are they, and what are they doing?
- in Chart 2, there's a cluster of systems in the NW which are only reachable by a three-jump route passing through some of the most dangerous hellholes in the chart. Are there lucrative trading opportunities inside for those who make it in alive? Should you pack a galactic hyperdrive so you can get out alive again?
...there are several more examples, too, of interesting experiences even within the very short limits of Elite's system information. I'm not sure many of them would have turned up if someone - even were it possible at the time - had just marked the systems on a map by hand. There are some boring bits, too, of course, but that's also good in its own way: you need the contrast for the interesting bits to look interesting.

I expect Elite Dangerous to be much the same: PCG will generate not only interesting situations but potentially more interesting situations than the designers would have come up with had they had to enter everything manually.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Sorry for thread jumping but did you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEVutbSqBI0 David's speech in TEDx Alberpolis

 

[Hog]

Elite for me was a game changer and I am expecting to be seriously gaming in 2014 for the first time in 30 years.

I am almost in the same situation. Was mad keen during the peak of the space sim days in the 80's and Elite was always the one I kept coming back to....and now finally space sims are back in style. Big advantage now is I dont have to beg my parents to upgrade the computer (the wife is a different story...)

 

[Rabcor]

Convincing your wife to allow you to engage in your hobbies? hmm, what kind of trickery to resort to... i might one day have to do it myself anyways so might as well figure it out now.

I guess the trick would usually be to find a way where she won't lose anything, for example you could sell your old computer for a small sum, then find other things you have that you don't really use and could sell until you can afford that new computer, earn the money for the computer yourself one way or another, and your wife can be shocked over you spending all your money on that computer all she wants, but she can't deny you the right to spend the money you earned yourself on whatever you choose to, if she tries to just explain to her how unfair that is.

There you go! Convincing parents is much harder since as a kid you usually don't have a lot of stuff you could sell to fund that. Luckily though i'm somewhere inbetween with no wife and as an adult my parents can't restrain me either

 

[Hamerstein]

Much has been said about the differing mechanics of the X series from Elite iterations. All I can really add is how I anticipate playing ED compared to X3:R and X3:TC.

With the X series I feel I have to be doing something: Building, Planning, Trading or missions, if I'm not "working" I don't feel like I'm playing, I might as well do something else.

With ED I can see myself just spending time admiring the galaxy, not doing anything in particular but still feeling involved.

It's the difference between a game and a "life experience" for me.

 

[Patrick_68000]

With ED I can see myself just spending time admiring the galaxy, not doing anything in particular but still feeling involved. It's the difference between a game and a "life experience" for me.

+1 --- I shall not have been able to say better

 

[Rogehans]

I wonder if we occasionally get a guru meditation error just so we know we are playing elite sorry david bad joke!

 

[Fromhell]

the differences are numerous, simple list from the top of my head

XR:

- Story driven single Player campaign

-Station building

you build factories with blue prints and modules. You actually see how things are produced, everything is part of the economy

-
Capital ship building
with blueprints and modules and you can assign NPC to run them, later probably going on the Bridge and command from there

- Drones
you send out drones and steer them with a VR device

- space cities
huge connected structures in space you can also fly inside

- Avatar walking, docking on stations, getting out talking to NPCs, even crawl through ventilation shafts as seen on trailer

- two sorts of tradings
1) item trading with your own ship with small commodities
2) hiring and assigning big trade ships and remote command them for completing Jobs

 

[izzy]

Much has been said about the differing mechanics of the X series from Elite iterations. All I can really add is how I anticipate playing ED compared to X3:R and X3:TC.

With the X series I feel I have to be doing something: Building, Planning, Trading or missions, if I'm not "working" I don't feel like I'm playing, I might as well do something else.

With ED I can see myself just spending time admiring the galaxy, not doing anything in particular but still feeling involved.

It's the difference between a game and a "life experience" for me.

Agree, with E: D we can do everything we want, there is not limit, not end

 

[Associat0r]

the differences are numerous, simple list from the top of my head

- space cities
huge connected structures in space you can also fly inside

- Avatar walking, docking on stations, getting out talking to NPCs, even crawl through ventilation shafts as seen on trailer

You will be docking and flying inside huge space stations in ED during release and walking around in them and on planets with space ports, wildlife and cities within a year.

 

[Fromhell]

You will be docking and flying inside huge space stations in ED during release and walking around in them and on planets with space ports, wildlife and cities within a year.

you think that kind of content is growing on trees?
Egosoft worked 7 years on XR, ED is in year 1, don´t know how many people are working on ED but if all of the above is there "within a year" they either have 100+ people working fulltime on ED or your expectations are a bit delusional

 

[Associat0r]

you think that kind of content is growing on trees?
Egosoft worked 7 years on XR, ED is in year 1, don´t know how many people are working on ED but if all of the above is there "within a year" they either have 100+ people working fulltime on ED or your expectations are a bit delusional

FD has done a lot of groundwork on the tech for decades and they have 60 people working on ED right now.

Also see the follow links:

http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wi...und_the_ship.2C_planets_and_space_stations.3F

http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wi...pertise_to_pull_off_such_ambitious_project.3F