How to make piracy better?

[xslam]

Eve online has escorts before introduction jump-capable cargo ships. So, for those traders who still not know about competition.
95% of traders in eve online compete agains each other, and can shoot them.

Traders mostly nothing in PVP, either they can't or don't want PVP or hasn't experience. And PVPers are not interested in trading or play space trucking. In eve online scenario some of them take over the traders (more accurate term is the grinders) and form racket (or even gold sell on eBay) based authority piramide.

If this game allow player transactions i will ask catched type 9 a ransom worth of 5mil credits, it insane for him but it still better than losing that ship. Exactly same happens in real life when combatants catching a hostile person. Welcome to an MMO.

 

[ciger]

No, I mean the police force that needs to be implemented instead of what we have now. As discussed in various other threads, pretty much all the NPCs and “encounters” (e.g., USS) seem like placeholders at the moment, and not very good ones. So I mean a police force that will determine the amount of force to bring according to the ship, armament, and skill level of the criminal, and actively come at them with far superior firepower (i.e., no suicide runs, no ignoring them until scanned).

Pirating in any “high security” system with a bounty on your head should be very difficult. And the bounty system should not allow the bounties for murder to be simply cleared on death, i.e., the criminal should pay the bounty, and the bounty for murder should be scaled up (and according to value of damage/loss caused). Notorious pirates should have to hang out in seedy backwater systems and anarchies, and keep clean in at least one major faction. (Even so, with sufficiently high bounties NPC bounty hunters should also become a nuisance. And no, I don't mean the current suicidal ones, but ones that would be smart enough to bring sufficient firepower…)

NPC police are a joke, i have no issues at all facing the standard viper and 2 eagles while 4pips in shields and scooping cargo. Funny thing was yesterday after I pulled a PC player in T6 out of SC after a while an NPC jumped in. Didnt pay much attention to it, thinking it was anoter viper or eagle. Started scooping cargo and noticed my shields are being drained a bit too fast for comfort. Selected this target and to my surprise it was an npc anaconda, possibly a bounty hunter. Waisted a few cell banks while I scooped the rest and jump out as fast as I could. Cool mechanic but still for an anaconda I should not be able to scoop any cargo as soon as it starts to shoot. NPCs need to be more dangerous.

 

[Fian]

My suggestion for what it is worth:

Traders should have some mechanism to take out a pirate but at a cost of their own ship as well. The cost for a trader would of course be higher - assuming the pirate is not in a python. The replacement cost of a trade ship + cargo is likely to be greater than the replacement cost of the pirate. Maybe for more expensive pirate ships it could be balanced by not destroying just damaging the hull of the pirate ship.

Perhaps this mechanism could only be activated if the trader's shields are down and hull is damaged below say 70%, or perhaps even only after some cargo has been jettisoned. Could be lmimted to ships carrying more than 90 cargo at the time (type 6 could drop 10 cargo and retain 90). Mechanism could be limited to Lakon 6/7/9 - traders in a clipper/python/annaconda can fight it out conventionally. Maybe arming the mechanism would automatically drop ten cargo and the mechanism would not be capable of activation unless further damage was done to the trader.

This would mean:

1. Pirate has an incentive to negotiate - if it just tries to destroy the trader instead of getting cargo it would suffer damage or be destroyed along with the trader.

2. Trader has an incentive to negotiate - it doesn't have to just run because it believes that even if it drops cargo pirate is likely to just kill it anyway at no significant cost/risk to the pirate.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Higher penalties but higher rewards.

Quicker reactions by authority vessels when a pirate enters the system, but anarchy systems are their homes. The trader who plots their course through safe systems should be fairly safe, and if a pirate is there, then they are going to not just face the lonely trader, but half a dozen police ships as well (i'd have that scale based on size of bounty. Someone with a few thousand on their heads - maybe a couple of weakish Eagles. A pirate with hundreds of thousands, send in the Elite Anacondas). Perhaps even system wide alerts for players to pick up on once one NPC or PC pilot has identified them "ALERT: WANTED CMDR JAMESON SEEN IN THIS SYSTEM! ALL AUTHORITY VESSELS AND LICENSED BOUNTY HUNTERS PLEASE RESPOND!"

The trader who risks a trip through an anarchy system though should be subject to lots of risk... but naturally high profit should they make it to a dock in the system.

If the pirate gets the goods, then they should be able to sell for closer to full price, not 50% as it is now. Yeah, realistically fences would always take a large cut, but gotta throw a bone to the pirates. Perhaps at pirate outposts allow those with bounties on their heads to get discounts on ship parts, repairs, ammo etc, discount based on size of bounty up to a limit, eg: 50% discount for a million or greater bounty.

 

[Vingtetun]

I think improving NPC piracy has to be at the heart of the solution. They should be around unshielded haulers and asps like flies around manure, taking the cargo time after time in some systems. it should be impossible to take an unshielded ship through an anarchy with a hold full of gold and not expect to pay off the pirates with a few cans or take some profit-sapping hull damage.

Also - I think the NPC's need to learn to back off when shields are down and target the cargo hatch, or worst case the engines. I've not had my cargo spill into space yet from any interdictions.

 

[Whiterose]

Every flight should have that "pirate" risk, but the risk should be higher in anarchic systems. There should be three options for traders:

1. Drop the cargo being requested
2. Run away via FSD (NOT logging off which is the most cowardly act and which flogging should be bought back for)
3. Stay and fight (my preferred option so that piracy has a risk as well)

Authority vessels are next to useless, I got interdicted by one last night as I had a bounty of a massive 6,000 credits and he didn't even fire one shot after he stated "now is the time to pay", I had plenty of time to FSD away.

 

[Bangfish]

The only thing I want is to either raise the logout limit to 30-60s or introduce some sort of notification that a trader is attempting to logoff. As it is now I immediately open fire when their ship is standing still/going in one direction. This single change would have the highest impact and would lead into more interesting scenarios during the pirating act.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The only thing I want is to either raise the logout limit to 30-60s or introduce some sort of notification that a trader is attempting to logoff. As it is now I immediately open fire when their ship is standing still/going in one direction. This single change would have the highest impact and would lead into more interesting scenarios during the pirating act.

If a longer delay before logout were to be introduced, along with an indicator to any players in the vicinity then the player logging out should be permitted to press the "quit" button immediately then return to piloting the ship until the logoff countdown has expired. Introducing a "look over here - there's a player logging out" indicator for effectively unpiloted ships would be a bit one-sided.

 

[ciger]

If a longer delay before logout were to be introduced, along with an indicator to any players in the vicinity then the player logging out should be permitted to press the "quit" button immediately then return to piloting the ship until the logoff countdown has expired. Introducing a "look over here - there's a player logging out" indicator for effectively unpiloted ships would be a bit one-sided.

There should not be a log off option during a dogfight, it is the same as pulling the plug which is obviously not being tolerated by devs. So if it is one sided so be it. Completely agree with Bangfish that the timer should be increased and some kind of notification be broadcasted.

 

[Robert Maynard]

There should not be a log off option during a dogfight, it is the same as pulling the plug which is obviously not being tolerated by devs. So if it is one sided so be it. Completely agree with Bangfish that the timer should be increased and some kind of notification be broadcasted.

If you seek to remove the ability to quit the game in combat then why not simply say that rather than propose an increase in the delay and a "shoot me" indicator?

Quitting in combat is not the same as pulling the plug - as there is a 15 second delay because Frontier put it there it is legitimate in terms of the current client - if Frontier had wanted to disable quitting in combat then it would not be possible using features of the client.

 

[ciger]

If you seek to remove the ability to quit the game in combat then why not simply say that rather than propose an increase in the delay and a "shoot me" indicator?

Quitting in combat is not the same as pulling the plug - as there is a 15 second delay because Frontier put it there it is legitimate in terms of the current client - if Frontier had wanted to disable quitting in combat then it would not be possible using features of the client.

Bad wording on my side, increased timer and notification would be perfect. Hell even a simple notification that the 15s countdown has been initiated would be great.

 

[Tigga]

I did my first "kill after dropping" yesterday. The guy was on 6% hull after initially running, said he'd drop cargo, and had cut engines. However he had already started charging his FSD, and I get no indication that he's stopped. He can't jump out without moving, so as long as he's not moving, I don't have to kill him. If he moves though, he has to die quick or he gets out. The order of events was:

1) He stopped, said he'd drop cargo
2) His shields went back online
3) He pressed the drop cargo button
4) He boosted
5) I started firing
6) The cargo fell out
7)) He exploded before I could stop firing.

Cargo takes a second or two to actually appear after dropping it (there's a hatch opening animation if you look really close). I'm now ~250k richer, but he blew up with a bunch of cargo still in, and probably thinks I'm super-evil rather than just evil.

Anyway, black market profits need to go up. Simples. Right now rares are the only way you can make reasonable money pirating (ie. 400k+/hour), and that's in part becuase their black market prices are a bit broken. The 50t of cargo I extracted from the T9 yesterday should have been worth a bunch, but they were only worth ~18t of rares, as they only sold for ~3k/tonne, rather than ~8.5k.

 

[Arkku]

Anyway, black market profits need to go up.

I think in anarchies you should be able to sell stolen stuff that has local demand for pretty much the full price. Otherwise stolen goods obviously need to be somewhat cheaper than legal ones. Meanwhile contraband (goods illegal in the current system) should bring more profit in those systems than they do legally elsewhere (though maybe demand would be exhausted quickly), stolen or not.

(Also I think you should be able to buy stolen stuff on the black market at a lower price than the legal market.)

 

[Derath]

Buff scooping and all problems are solved, take 100t off a T9 big game piracy, take rares of small targets economic piracy.

Black market buffs help too, full value in anarchy reduced in other places, even at full value pirates would still be joint bottom poorest with miners and explorers lol.

 

[Quineloe]

Who cares about RPK

Judging by the threads on this so far, quite a lot of people.

just make anarchy systems in OPen give 5x the trade profit, bingo. Now the pirates have fair game and the traders dont complain cause they get 5x reward.

lo

So you want to kill players without even getting a bounty on your head? Let alone there being so many anarchy systems in the game, people would make absurd amounts of money that would even put Fan Horizons to shame with zero risk. I don't see how that would improve piracy one bit, getting bounties on your head seems to be the least concern, see Ciger and his 3 million bounty.

 

[Vincent Starson]

• Implement better communication (pre-written flavor text to threaten/demand cargo, either by the player or random like NPC)
• Implement harsher punishments for killing players.
• Implement an "Honorable" pirate system, such as privateering, that discourages killing ships. Make it visible to the victim somehow when they are interdicted, allowing them the reassurance they are not about to lose everything if the follow the rules.
• Implement cargo insurance.
• Balance time to recover for both parties. Currently unbalanced, a trader must spend hours recovering the lost credits for a minute long encounter.
• I'd like to also bring up the different insurance amounts, as low as 2.5% for some backers, means they spend half as long as I would recovering a ship loss. It doesn't matter in smaller ships, it matters in Pythons and up though. My anaconda at 9 mill rebuy at 5% vs 4.5 mill rebuy at 2.5%, that's almost an hour trading difference. I know it will never change, lest riots start, just pointing it out.
• Improve cargo scooping, add something to make it quicker like a module that sends out something to line them up or tractor beam or anything other than what it is now.
• Get rid of station griefers.
• Encourage open play, up to you how.
• Lucrative missions that pay you to pirate, but fail harshly if you kill a commander.

 

[Quineloe]

Every flight should have that "pirate" risk, but the risk should be higher in anarchic systems. There should be three options for traders:

1. Drop the cargo being requested
2. Run away via FSD (NOT logging off which is the most cowardly act and which flogging should be bought back for)
3. Stay and fight (my preferred option so that piracy has a risk as well)

Authority vessels are next to useless, I got interdicted by one last night as I had a bounty of a massive 6,000 credits and he didn't even fire one shot after he stated "now is the time to pay", I had plenty of time to FSD away.

Currently the risk is highest if you go to the latest hot zones that are broadcast here and on reddit. It has nothing to do with system government or security level. Fan Horizons you had a really decent chance to be killed over and over by people who weren't even pirates.

Anarchy systems are rarely worth trading. Their economies are usually terrible, so the only good thing about them is that they also supply goods that are illegal elsewher.

If you analyzed this on a case by case basis, and assuming that Anarchy meant highest risk, let's look at these interesting goods.

Tobacco - can already be traded in the Empire freely, so no point in getting into Anarchy systems if that's what you are after
Narcotics - 200 credits galaxy average for a shipping container of cocaine. What a joke. Out of liberal political correctness, smuggling drugs is not profitable in this game.
Combat Stabilisiers - a high tech produced medicine that is right there next to P Cells and Performance Enhancers. But it's only half the price, so profit on the other two is much better. No point in getting these when you can pick up P Es for 6200 at the nearest non-anarchy high tech station.
Slaves - I have never seen an anarchy station with a high supply of slaves. Selling them on a black market in bulk in my experience is also not profitable, even if you were to sneak into a station with a damocles sword above your head of a multi-million credit fine.
Weapons - No station I've ever seen has a demand for these. The only use of battle weapons is the Seeking Luxuries equivalent in war systems, and they're far too rare to even consider doing this right now. Also, as the economy for anarchies is usually garbage, don't expect decent supply or prices on battle weapons. Profit margins are terrible on these.


You want traders to move into anarchy systems, when they're already more likely to be interdicted there than in high security Federation / Empire systems, this needs to be addressed first. Currently anarchy is only good for "Debt ridden deadbeats" missions and for your first and fifth rank progression mission

 

[Robert Maynard]

• Implement an "Honorable" pirate system, such as privateering, that discourages killing ships. Make it visible to the victim somehow when they are interdicted, allowing them the reassurance they are not about to lose everything if the follow the rules.

That particular proposal would probably go some way to stopping traders simply running off when interdicted. The rating could be awarded by the Pirates' Guild and could be based on piracy statistics for the player, i.e. a "diamond skull" rated pirate statistically destroyed less than 1% of their targets; "platinum skull" < 5%; "golden skull" <10%; "silver skull" < 25%; "bronze skull" < 50%. If the target knew early enough what the pirate's rating was then the whole encounter could be role-played with more gusto by both parties.... Maybe.

 

[Tigga]

That particular proposal would probably go some way to stopping traders simply running off when interdicted. The rating could be awarded by the Pirates' Guild and could be based on piracy statistics for the player, i.e. a "diamond skull" rated pirate statistically destroyed less than 1% of their targets; "platinum skull" < 5%; "golden skull" <10%; "silver skull" < 25%; "bronze skull" < 50%. If the target knew early enough what the pirate's rating was then the whole encounter could be role-played with more gusto by both parties.... Maybe.

I'm pretty sure if I bumped into a pirate who destroyed less than 1% of his targets I'd chose to run from him, because he's clearly awful at his job. Why fear a pirate who never kills you?

 

[Vincent Starson]

I'm pretty sure if I bumped into a pirate who destroyed less than 1% of his targets I'd chose to run from him, because he's clearly awful at his job. Why fear a pirate who never kills you?

He could still disable you and keep his rating... once they implement rigging so its not a self-destruct sentence, this will be viable.