every canister is stolen? why?

[BadSector]

It depends. In my state, if the original owner doesn't come forward in five years, ownership is given to the person that found it. There are ways to claim ownership of lost money - for example, by knowing the location the money was found and the exact denomination. If you turn in $100 you found on 4th street, and someone else has filed a lost property form saying they lost $100 on 4th street, the police are going to give it to them.

Anyhow, state law here is that any lost property of a value over $50 must be turned in to the police, or there is the potential to be subject to up to $5000 in fines, the loss of the property, and 9 months in jail.

Friend of mine lost his samsung galaxy s5, for about 3 moths later cops called to him and told they found his property (in some raid or something) and they gave the cell back to him. (Because he was purchased a replacement s5 he decided give it to me for free, in turn i handed it to over my gf as a gift, because i'm just a nice guy ) Anyhow i'm willing to bet that this guy who found and kept the lost cell was charged for a theft. But what if my friend were to willingfully discarding his phone , or what if he died a meanwhile, etc. What happens then? (In ED) I all of these circumstances is has to take in to account. And one way to do this is for FD to work about, because as it stands the current "every salvage = theft. and for the majority of players the current rules are furstrating. There should be "a claim option" Ala X3. (btw: with all due respect, the law in your state is quite harsh, mayby it has stomething to do with dealing with pickpocketing. I don't know. Peace

 

[Haggis McMoose]

@Eagle Eye: Fair enough to demand handing the cargo to local police... but there is nobody that will take it and give you some rep as an upstanding citizen... your choices are:

1. take it, sell it, get some good out of it -OR-
2. wait for canister seal breach and watch the cargo self-destruct.


It lacks choices, right?

Haggis McMoose,
Critter cargo carrier

 

[Aquamonkey]

But what if my friend were to willingfully discarding his phone , or what if he died a meanwhile, etc. What happens then? (In ED) I all of these circumstances is has to take in to account. And one way to do this is for FD to work about, because as it stands the current "every salvage = theft. and for the majority of players the current rules are furstrating. There should be "a claim option" Ala X3.

There exists an option to voluntarily discard cargo such that it's not marked as stolen. The fact that the stuff you picked up at the USS is marked stolen means that this wasn't the case. The cargo containers are tagged differently when they've been legitimately abandoned.

 

[Eagle Eye]

Do you realize what happened if people give a lost money to police? they keep it, since nobody CANT prove their the ownership. Unless there's were aren't talking about a major frauds etc. Do an experiment get a bill from you wallet , get in streets and start asking "who lost this 100 euro bill !!?? Comoon people i haven't got all day! "

Because a $100 bill got the original owner's details electronically marked and easily scanned & checked by the police?

 

[Eagle Eye]

@Eagle Eye: Fair enough to demand handing the cargo to local police... but there is nobody that will take it and give you some rep as an upstanding citizen... your choices are:

1. take it, sell it, get some good out of it -OR-
2. wait for canister seal breach and watch the cargo self-destruct.


It lacks choices, right?

Haggis McMoose,
Critter cargo carrier

Then leave it? Unless you know you're heading to an outpost with black market IMMEDIATELY after scooping up & sure that nobody will scan you before it's sold, it's never worth the massive reputation losses and fines. I found a USS full of Palladium, nice, actually worth a detour to an outpost... Then a Viper Security shows up before I even scooped one in, so I don't bother and leave. With the options that we're given, it's simply a much better choice to let these stuff floating there. With proper salvage mechanics, this will of course change. But right now, this is it.

on another note, canisters in USS do not self destruct, only those jetissoned by NPC or player while you're in the instance do. So if its durability is going down and it's not dropped by a friendly player giving you a gift (properly marked as not stolen before jettisoning), it's stolen.

 

[Dajunka]

It's a game. Having cargo canisters flagged as stolen is just one more daft thing that crept into this game. I don't think the dev's see this as a game anymore, more like a business blocking up every loop hole that might allow them to loose total control over the cash flow. Me thinks the dev's are retired bankers and solicitors.

The game is suppose to be fun for crying out load, not frustration at every turn.

 

[Darkium]

Actually it's more like picking a box dropped by a fedex truck.

Registering goods is also part of the galactic mesures for fighting off piracy.

 

[yale3d]

Please, let's not get into "realistic" with ED. Not only because its a game, so who gives a flying fart about whats realistis or whats not, but if we actually GIVE a fart, why dont we have a damn computer on the ship to track the trading history, track asteroides' drops when mining, not to mention something to aquire adequate trading data. We dont know the prices next door but we know if something is stolen?
Please...
"Any Canister You Pick Up Is Stolen" simply sux. IMHO... No finder's joy. Period.

 

[Demascus]

I think I would be nice through the reputation system to be able to obtain a permit of sorts, salvage of certain goods found in USS's. Perhaps something along the lines of bounty hunting permits that would cause sale of any goods obtained during bounty hunting to receive a 50% penalty in sales as a tax to the local authority. The controlling system authority would get their cut and the bounty hunters would still get some extra cash.

 

[Darkium]

I pick up everything I find and have yet to be fined. Not my problem if you can't smuggle correctly.

 

[EMarkM]

It's actually based on real maritime law.

If the original person who jettisoned the goods did so of their own volition (which can only happen with a player using 'abandon') they are flotsam and are the property of the finder. Otherwise, they are jetsam and property of the original owner. If you went out on the high seas today, you can't just claim anything you find.

Other way around :-

Flotsam = found floating and still the property of the original owner

Jetsam = jettisoned by the owner and free for anyone to pick up under the terms of salvage

 

[Goilveig]

But what if my friend were to willingfully discarding his phone , or what if he died a meanwhile, etc.

If he willingly discarded the phone, he could say so to the police; that might reduce the charges against the other person (who still had an obligation to turn the phone in to the cops).

If he died, the phone, like everything else, would become property of his estate, and either end up property of his next of kin, or be disbursed according to a will. The executor of the estate would deal with police to recover the property.

 

[jgm]

One of the two rules of Elite:

If it's not yours you can't have it.

 

[Goilveig]

Other way around :-

Flotsam = found floating and still the property of the original owner

Jetsam = jettisoned by the owner and free for anyone to pick up under the terms of salvage

D'oh, you're right... it's been a long day.

 

[Arthur_two_sheds_Jackson]

Once i found 40 euros lying on the street, i picked them up and put em in my own pocked. That apparently makes me a dishonest thief according to some, even tho there was no way to know who lost em. Perhaps we'r too far in G.Wells 84, dunno.

Not according to some, just according to the Law of the land your in.
The law of the land in ED also says your a tealeaf

Do you realize what happened if people give a lost money to police? they keep it, since nobody CANT prove their the ownership. Unless there's were aren't talking about a major frauds etc. Do an experiment get a bill from you wallet , get in streets and start asking "who lost this 100 euro bill !!?? Comoon people i haven't got all day! "

After a set number of days has passed, if no loser has been found the property becomes yours...come on people, why is it so hard to understand. Its your duty to take reasonable steps to trace the owner.

I pick up everything I find and have yet to be fined. Not my problem if you can't smuggle correctly.

Hear him, Hear him

 

[talshiarr]

Once i found 40 euros lying on the street, i picked them up and put em in my own pocked. That apparently makes me a dishonest thief according to some, even tho there was no way to know who lost em. Perhaps we'r too far in G.Wells 84, dunno.

About ten years ago I accidentally dropped about $70 when I pulled my keys out of my pocket at the gas station to leave and they caught on my clip. Thankfully someone was honest enough to take it in to the clerk and I was able to get it back when I called around and identified it. They could have walked off with it and I'd never have known. Just something to ponder.

 

[AuGuR]

Would think the carcass of a destroyed ship nearby would be the first clue the derelict cargo was not willfully given up.

 

[EMarkM]

D'oh, you're right... it's been a long day.

Time for some relaxing flying for you I reckon

 

[Dakron Nova]

..... if i find something with no owner, that's mine.

Er No its not.

If I leave £20 laying in the street and walk away, if somebody picks it up and walks off with no intention of handing it in to the police. Then its stolen (no matter how stupid I was for doing it).

I refer the right honorable commander to a case in 2009 where a married couple, Amanda and Michael Stacey, found a lottery ticket and won £30,000 where upon they decided to keep the winnings. They received a 9 month suspended sentence and were ordered to pay pack the 15K they had already spent. Their defense lawyer Rob Ross at the time was quoted as saying "It is important for the public to know that 'Finders keepers, losers weepers' is not true and never was."


Same with Cargo in space, if someone has left in floating in space that's up to them.

 

[Sentenza]

If we want to stick to reality, then the current mechanism is wrong: if real maritime law was like this, nothing would ever be salvaged because you'd be breaking the law the instant you touched it. You should have the options to bring salvaged goods to the police whitin a time limit, possibly for a reward. Then you could choose between keeping the goods to sell them to the black market at full value and take risks with the law, or safely turning them in for 10% of their value.