Elite / Frontier Fun vs. Graphical details

[JohannStrauss]

Hello, program designers and players.
I have one BIG request to make regarding elite IV that is more on the general aspect of the game.

--> Do NOT sacrifice the gaming fun to the details of the graphics!

By that I mean that it is totally unnecessary to work out maximum detail depth to certain aspects of the game that are on the other hand some great asset even without developing some real 3d simulation.

Let me explain what I mean!
We in German have some very successful long-running franchise of certain strategic / simulation games that are quite comparable to elite in the sense that they deal with exploring / building up trading routes / fighting / build up production facilities and so on. One is "Patrician" that is now running in the 4th version at its 20th years!

Now that is some medieval ship-trading game that won every gaming award in Germany. You can petty much adapt large parts of Elite to that game - just transfer it to the ocean.

Now here comes the problem: Since we have the 4th edition now the graphics are excellent. Maximum, lovely details. But basically the GAMING FUN is less than it was in the version 10 years ago.
And that is because the programmers decided to erase many small parts of the game that would have disturbed the graphical concept of the game.

Let me transfer this to some possible Elite IV and show you what I mean:

--> Let us concentrate on the trading. It could be that you decide to make the game as realistic as it could be and decide to model ALL scenes in real 3d. Even the market. All goods would be viewable like they were real.
Nice to see! But you would surely have some major problem to display - let's say - 500 different goods in 3d.

And here comes my big wish: I don't NEED the perfect 3d-world in all aspects! Rather give us some very, very complex trading possibilities and some plain 2d-sheets where we can see all goods as a list then reducing the goods to 20 and display them in real simulation! Do you get what I mean?

Sure: all those "real life simulation" aspects should be included into the game. Especially in space while fighting. But do not sacrifice the trading / producing complexity just to fit your own goal of a perfect 3d-simulation.

My experiences with ALL (trading) simulations these day is that they ALL are far worse than their much less graphically complex pre-versions from 15 years ago. And that is sad. It is like communicating with some great looking model that is on the other hand really dumb.

Don't be afraid to give us some plain 2d-pages where a lot of stuff to read is on. Make it complex and fun! That will pay out at the end.

To make it short: Elite IV as some graphically advanced elite II with far less trading goods, far less trading possibilities and without and possibilities to produce my own goods is NOT what I would buy.

--> Note that the trading was only one aspect I used as an example. I could also mention the newspapers that were just perfect like it was. There is no need to improve that. Or the simple way the military tasks were given.
Please don't kick great aspects out of the game that would be too complex to display them in real 3d.

Simple things are often the best.

Thank you!

 

[Steve O B Have]

Hello, program designers and players.
I have one BIG request to make regarding elite IV that is more on the general aspect of the game.

--> Do NOT sacrifice the gaming fun to the details of the graphics!

I can't disagree more I'm afraid. I think it would be nigh on unforgivable to not make as much effort as they can into making Elite 4 a beautiful game. I'll give you my reasons.

1/ Marketability - in order for this game to survive, get continued support and be immediately accessible it will need to have an element of eye candy. Humans are very visual creatures and in almost everything we do we take visual queues in discerning quality. Make it look average and overcomplicated and then only the hardcore will pick it up.

2/ Immersion - I don't know about you but these days I don't quite have the ability to fill in the blanks with things like computer games. Mostly because there isn't the need. The in game environment does not need to be representative any more, computers are more than capable of generating a real time, real feeling, environment.

3/ Surprise and Delight - personally I find the idea of space exploration and discovery one of my few really wonderful delights. We have only to look at the results garnered from the Cassini probe or the Mars Rovers to be left in awe of our universe. Why pass that up? Space is a huge dark and barren place intermittently filled with relatively small and breathtakingly beautiful things like our own planet or nebulas or the Milkyway.

Let me transfer this to some possible Elite IV and show you what I mean:

--> Let us concentrate on the trading. It could be that you decide to make the game as realistic as it could be and decide to model ALL scenes in real 3d. Even the market. All goods would be viewable like they were real.
Nice to see! But you would surely have some major problem to display - let's say - 500 different goods in 3d.

There are some things that should stay as lists... this I won't argue with, but then I would seriously doubt that David and/or Frontier have any illusions about this.

And here comes my big wish: I don't NEED the perfect 3d-world in all aspects! Rather give us some very, very complex trading possibilities and some plain 2d-sheets where we can see all goods as a list then reducing the goods to 20 and display them in real simulation! Do you get what I mean?

I have to disagree again. Trading is something that I don't believe should be made 'very very complex'. I go back to my initial point or marketability and accessibility. For this game to survive and make it in the market then it has to be accessible to the casual gamer. Now if you want to go deeper with the trading then by all means include the scope for it but don't make it inherently complicated. I for one never saw the Elite series as a strictly trading simulator. It was always so much more including things like mercenary missions, combat and siding with various military factions. Trading was a part of it but by no means was it all encompassing.

I would hate it if E4 was reduced to the sprawling spreadsheet that is EVE Online.

To make it short: Elite IV as some graphically advanced elite II with far less trading goods, far less trading possibilities and without and possibilities to produce my own goods is NOT what I would buy.

--> Note that the trading was only one aspect I used as an example. I could also mention the newspapers that were just perfect like it was. There is no need to improve that. Or the simple way the military tasks were given.
Please don't kick great aspects out of the game that would be too complex to display them in real 3d.

Simple things are often the best.

Thank you!

Ironically you're asking for a simple presentation but of far more complex things. I'm not sure I would buy that, and I'm pretty sure that the average gamer wouldn't either. I can appreciate the purist approach and I understand where you're coming from but I personally would prefer to see a healthy balance with the potential for added scope at the players demand rather than it being the soul of the game.

Elite was always many things to many people, that is what is going to make it so hard to deliver to expectation. I think from Frontiers perspective it is important that they don't initially put out a game that is strongly one thing or another. I personally think that it's more important that they create something that has the foundations for added scope both in their own subsequent development and add-ons and also in making the game easily moddable.

Where the niche gamer market is concerned (and I think that the massively complex trading system fits into that quite firmly) I believe that it's something that should be addressed from a post release standpoint - either from the modding community or from Frontiers own Dev team.

In my opinion of course.

 

[Geraldine]

Keep It Like It Was, But Better!

Rant mode online

I have to agree with Steve here. If trading becomes the core element in the game then much of the fun will be drained out of it. Trading should rightly be part of the game for sure, but those nice (but not overdone) graphics will be needed to attract the new generation of gamers. To me at least, it's all about trying to get that balance right, to re-kindle that spark that the original games had. Other things from the originals must be there too, the Newtonian flight model (but an option for those too lazy to learn), seamless planetary surface to space flight, hyperdrives (not jumpgates ), missions, other opportunities made available by having a full realistic galaxy for you to explore. All of this was in FE2 and should be there again. Elite is more than just trading, it is a combination of all those above points. Without all of these it, quite simply would not be an Elite game. Get the balance wrong and what you end up with is either a shallow (but pretty) space shooter or a spreadsheet snorefest.

New things to introduce could be proper first person interaction with your ship and other ships (boarding via E.V.A, invited or uninvited), more interaction at spaceports, make inhabited planets (and on occasion seemingly uninhabited ones too) more alive, more humanity in the game: show the consequences of your actions for good or ill, these things would not disrupt those core elements, in fact they would only enhance them.

Last point (and I have said this before on this forum) it must be moddable. There is no getting away from this. The Elite Community's needs are vast and beyond the scope of any one person or company to deliver. So why try? Just give the tools to the community and let them have at it!

Rant Mode off-line

 

[turwhitt]

I felt a bit shallow choosing the "better graphics" one, but i will try to explain:

Basically I would just like to see an updated FFE with modern graphics, more scripted missions and an optional storyline.

 

[Sir.Tj]

I felt a bit shallow choosing the "better graphics" one, but i will try to explain:

Basically I would just like to see an updated FFE with modern graphics, more scripted missions and an optional storyline.

Agree with what you said turwhitt, It's what I was hoping for with FFE3D, shame it seems that the projects died.

It will have to be something special though to make the wait worthwhile.

 

[potsmoke66]

yes,
yes,
and again yes

i guess all three are right.

graphics are important today, not only as a eyecatcher, it was allways a part of computergames, depending on state of the art and reflecting also the state of art.
if i look at the history of computergames, some won't believe, many inventions have been made first for gaming which are nowadays common in many aspects of daily life.

a game should have depht, of course. i didn't think johann strauss thought about a overcomplicated system where you can tweak everything, that's the wrong trail.

sorry what? casual gamer? i won't tell you what i think about that...
if i like to play casual, i play space invaders.

and of course modding, right! some like that as a cool aspect of a game
yes, give the players the tools to enhance the universe to their own wishes.
but don't forget it has to be easy as 1,2,3 a,b,c.
else the so called "casual gamer" (what a stupid word) will lose interest for shure.
because even he will try to find out how that works. if it needs skills, the so called casual gamer doesn't have, it will be trashed immidiatly.
build the knowledge slowly up.
both should be given, create your own with a few mouseclicks, but think of skilled old gamers that likes to explore the full depht.

but in general mr.strauss is on the right track, imo. trading is a mainpart of elite besides fighting. similarities to naval exploration a few hundred years ago are offens.

he's right when he says that many sequels of games sacrified depht to graphics. a quasi realistic 3d graphic can cach the eye of the consumer, but only a good balance between depht and gameplay can fascinate a player for years and it will become a classic then.

but i understand also a note in the book of history didn't feeds you.

the reason for the loss of intelligent coding is not to clear to me, it won't eat up processing time, but eats up time to develop.
many put yearly sequels of their games on the market, impossible to workout all the nice stuff in a year.

further too many cooks... you know.

fun vs. graphical details?
i guess a marriage is the solution.
not versus, together they go hand in hand and can make from any simple game a classic.

short:
- graphics have to be top notch
- trading needs to be simple but reflecting a real market
- fighting should be realistic
- give the beginners a chance to get experienced
- surprise players often with unforseen things
- lead them on wrong trails, let them fail, let the player run into deadends
- teach players
- reward the player (very important), not only with money or points
- give the player a chance to work for a party or for himself
- create different tasks, easy (short) and complex (long lasting) missions
- let the player solve riddles with randomized solutions
- if not multiplayer at least the possibility to counteract (coop)
- implement dog fights (human vs. human of course) for fun
- create a ai race that is nearly not to beat
- best reward, give the player the feeling everything is lost without HIM
- keep the controls and menues as simple as possible
- don't bore players with cutscenes, we like to play not watch movies
- give the player the chance to play the hero as well as a evil dictator but don't judge.

i guess i know what strauss was thinking about, like settlers and his sequels
(or many others) first release was a hammer, quick to understand and resulting in a interesting game with simple relations between production and success, later it turned to be a game, where you can tweak amounts of produced goods and needed resources. too much, that's not needed.

don't forget to disturb the players success with random catastrophes, it will make him angry, but force him to.

give players a place to meet in the web from within the gameworld.

but why not show commodities in full 3d? but it shouldn't be on front, a list to select from but additional informations behind that. choose view item and you get the fully animated 3d pic of the commodity and of course a explanation to what it is, where it's from, etc.

finally, don't release a game that can be played only when downloading the mainpart against a fee from the web. that's evil imo.

else i don't mind much about a n-ology of games using the same game world.
many tasks i posted now can't simply be released in one game.
it will leave it to the player to decide which part of it he likes to play or maybe all.

i can imagine a lot of new tasks for a elite, from strategy to FPS, but don't put all in one, that won't work, not because it isn't to solve technically, but it will annoy the (no not again, casual) player if it's neither fish nor bird.

give the player the opportunity to start more then one "life".
let him decide if he likes to take the character to the other game or to start a new career.

 

[Steve O B Have]

I'm not sure I understand the vehemence against the term 'casual gamer'.

When I say casual gamer, I mean someone that is happy to pick up a game for 30 mins, have a thrash and then go away and do something else. Believe it or not but the average gamer is not someone that sits in front of their console/PC for hours on end. I think the problem is that you associate casual with simplistic.

Like it or not but the success of these games is not weighed in how much the hardcore gamer likes it but how much the average gamer likes it. As much as the purist would like to have soul domain on how these games are to be produced, the simple fact is that we're reliant on their general success and marketability. As much as you may dislike the term casual gamer (and as much as David hates it) it's the name given to those that are not 'hardcore' gamers.

If you don't like it then if it helps think of them a general gamers or generic gamers or even mainstream gamers. Whatever you call it, it does not change the need for a game to be approachable, attractive and most of all marketable to both enable it to have ongoing support and to also make it generally desirable to the modding community.

 

[turwhitt]

Believe it or not but the average gamer is not someone that sits in front of their console/PC for hours on end.

What? These heretics must be burned!

 

[potsmoke66]

right on commander!

sorry, man i have nothing to say against casual gaming, sometimes i do that to.
but like i said, then i choose invaders or something similar i don't have to get into it and not elite or a epic strategy or sim game.

usually you can't play such casually, you need time to get envolved with.

and wasn't it me, who created the some presaved games as "missions" for a casual round of FE2?

i guess i only dislike the classification itself and the hunt after the so called casual gamer.

btw, with the right game you can make people addicted to gaming who stated that they would NEVER play any computer game (my ex wife for example). even anthroprosophes i have introduced to computergames, that evil i am.

from this pov, no casual gamers at all!

 

[JohannStrauss]

Correction!

Hello, everybody!

---> Please don't get me wrong! I don't mean that the trading has to be "more complex" and that the game should be "2-D" in all aspects, or even some main aspects!

--> I just wanted to say that Frontier should NOT eliminate certain aspects that were ALREADY in the game - and let them be very simple and unimportant - only to improve the appearance of the game.
I am very well aware that complexity is the most feared aspect of some new game by the developers.
Yes: the market...

But excuse my own view: to me the trading and exploring was ALWAYS the main part. And the FREEDOM I had in the game. The total freedom to do what I want. To dive into anarchy systems and kill pirates when I was in the mood for that or just selling robots at Barnard's stars for months to make money. To me and most of my friends the money making and freedom to explore was the kick of the game.

And let me make one thing for sure: I HATE missions, I hate being forced to play some game accordingly to some set path or story line. I know that many players love that - and they should have it. But to me and many others the free trading and exploring was the real fun.

And yes: I'd love to build up my own small production facilities or buy / build me my own space station when I am rich or buy me some very, very large ship that I can equip with luxury goods as I wish to after I played the game for 18 month or so. That is the kick millions had at the game "patrician": you had to play weeks and weeks even months to get the final goal. That kept the players interested and playing the game for years. And you can see: we are in the 20th years of the game now! And by the way: the "seddlers" is the best example for how you should NOT do it: improving the graphics, driving down the complexity massively.... Everything after the 4th version was getting worse and worse, the complete community agrees on that.

Yes: this would be the PERFECT game for me:

Exploring the galaxy until I find some very dangerous, far away system where I can buy some very rare, perhaps illegal goods and sell them on earth until I can buy me the giant-monster ship after, lets's say, 6 months of daily gaming. And after 6 more months I am perhaps able to build or buy me some small factory on the moon and install a trading route. And after 6 more months I can finally build me some custom ship or buy me some small space station.

This is what elite IV is in my dreams. Freedom of space. And if I am in the mood I can still join the army and play some missions. Sure: the graphics are important. But again: don't sacrifice the gaming fun just for that.

And don't FORGET the millions and millions of German gamers that love to trade! There IS a market for them! Trust me!

And by the way: trading does not make a game complex! Having a big list of goods is not complicated at all! Do you remember how big the item list at elite III already was? We had 6 different missiles alone! How I love all those gadgets for the ships. All those different hyper drives! I didn't count it but we already had about 100 items to buy and sell. KEEP that! And PLEASE add some more items. What about cloaking devices? Different kinds of luxury goods? I already made some thread with my idea how you could make some very simple yet great trading aspect for the game. There should be the possibility to find and buy unique artifacts at far away systems. That would make the exploration even more interesting. I don't think that a big list of tradable goods would make the game more complex. Not at all. You have to concentrate on a handful of goods anyway.

I beg you! Do not forget the gamers that love to buy and sell and explore and those gamers that are not so much into fighting and missions!

Thank you!

 

[JohannStrauss]

No need for a rant at all!
I can underline every single thing you said. I would even say that the fighting is one core aspect of the game that made the trading and money making interesting, which gave it the kick when you came into some new system without any shields and packed with goods and hoped there were no pirates. And by the way: the more dangerous and difficult the fighting in far away systems gets the more valuable the rare goods are and the more interesting the trading becomes because with more money you can buy better ships with better weapons.

Furthermore I already made a thread about the direct interaction on planets and how nice it would be to have that.

Also: the bigger the list of available ships in the game is , the better!

Rant mode online

I have to agree with Steve here. If trading becomes the core element in the game then much of the fun will be drained out of it. Trading should rightly be part of the game for sure, but those nice (but not overdone) graphics will be needed to attract the new generation of gamers. To me at least, it's all about trying to get that balance right, to re-kindle that spark that the original games had. Other things from the originals must be there too, the Newtonian flight model (but an option for those too lazy to learn), seamless planetary surface to space flight, hyperdrives (not jumpgates ), missions, other opportunities made available by having a full realistic galaxy for you to explore. All of this was in FE2 and should be there again. Elite is more than just trading, it is a combination of all those above points. Without all of these it, quite simply would not be an Elite game. Get the balance wrong and what you end up with is either a shallow (but pretty) space shooter or a spreadsheet snorefest.

New things to introduce could be proper first person interaction with your ship and other ships (boarding via E.V.A, invited or uninvited), more interaction at spaceports, make inhabited planets (and on occasion seemingly uninhabited ones too) more alive, more humanity in the game: show the consequences of your actions for good or ill, these things would not disrupt those core elements, in fact they would only enhance them.

Last point (and I have said this before on this forum) it must be moddable. There is no getting away from this. The Elite Community's needs are vast and beyond the scope of any one person or company to deliver. So why try? Just give the tools to the community and let them have at it!

Rant Mode off-line

 

[SuperG]

Well E1 & E2 are old and aimd at historical hardware.

So whatever they do it wil have much better GFX, but how much. Compare to modern games.

If it PC where System memory is so large and Video ram is large to.
So There is much more diversaty possible.

But I think if everthing is 3D instead 2D this mean much more content creation work. As 3D takes more work then 2D.

There are new API and feature who can boost detail in LOD way and that is testalation. Modern engine use shader power.

Because E1 & E2 are so far in the past the GFX step up could be a shock. Not only for the gamers but also the dev's who have a lot more work to do. More is possible wich means lot more work to be done.

 

[Geraldine]

Crazy can be fun too

Moderate Rant Mode Online

Johann, I am only reminding you that the key to Elite IV's success is in getting the balance right. You can't have one core game element stronger than the rest. I am well aware of the German's love of trading games and that is fine by me, sometimes I even enjoy it in an Elite game. However, other times I don't want to play nice, I like to go crazy In the Elite universe this was possible in the past games because that balance was so right. I can't do this in other "Elite-a-likes", because the game will slap me down for having the guile to challenge it's carefully thought out gameplay.

Anyways, my underlying point is I want to set the pace of the gameplay myself. If I want the slow but safe route to success then I will play nice and be a trader,.....but I also want to take risks from time to time, rip the rules up and well,......go crazy!

That is the real beauty of the Elite games because they allowed you do both.

In the end Johann, it's my firm belief that both of us should get want we want from Elite IV, I do agree with your views up to a certain point as I am sure you may well say the same thing about the points I made, well we are both Elite fans after all!

Moderate Rant Mode Offline

 

[JohannStrauss]

Awwww You are so nice!

Yes, I think we both are in love with the same women.
And we are just afraid how she will look like after her 15 years of vacation.

I am going to give her a kiss anyway.

Moderate Rant Mode Online

Johann, I am only reminding you that the key to Elite IV's success is in getting the balance right. You can't have one core game element stronger than the rest. I am well aware of the German's love of trading games and that is fine by me, sometimes I even enjoy it in an Elite game. However, other times I don't want to play nice, I like to go crazy In the Elite universe this was possible in the past games because that balance was so right. I can't do this in other "Elite-a-likes", because the game will slap me down for having the guile to challenge it's carefully thought out gameplay.

Anyways, my underlying point is I want to set the pace of the gameplay myself. If I want the slow but safe route to success then I will play nice and be a trader,.....but I also want to take risks from time to time, rip the rules up and well,......go crazy!

That is the real beauty of the Elite games because they allowed you do both.

In the end Johann, it's my firm belief that both of us should get want we want from Elite IV, I do agree with your views up to a certain point as I am sure you may well say the same thing about the points I made, well we are both Elite fans after all!

Moderate Rant Mode Offline

 

[Steve O B Have]

What? These heretics must be burned!

LOL missed that, got a morning chuckle

Well E1 & E2 are old and aimd at historical hardware.

So whatever they do it wil have much better GFX, but how much. Compare to modern games.

If it PC where System memory is so large and Video ram is large to.
So There is much more diversaty possible.

But I think if everthing is 3D instead 2D this mean much more content creation work. As 3D takes more work then 2D.

There are new API and feature who can boost detail in LOD way and that is testalation. Modern engine use shader power.

Because E1 & E2 are so far in the past the GFX step up could be a shock. Not only for the gamers but also the dev's who have a lot more work to do. More is possible wich means lot more work to be done.

Oh undoubtedly and it will be things like tessellation that will make things like space stations, planets and cities that little bit more 'textured and rich'. There is some pretty cool stuff happening in the graphics engines world. From the tessellation perspective I've yet to see something that doesn't look a little overwrought and 'cartooney'. I'd be interested to see what it can do for something like a building or a space stations surface texture.

 

[Geraldine]

Awwww You are so nice!

Thank you, as are you. We are all Elite fans at the end of the day Johann

Yes, I think we both are in love with the same women.

Awkward & Confused Mode Online

Eh! What? :S
Must be language barrier making an appearance methinks Yes I do love the prospect of Elite IV making an appearance.....um, just not that way

Awkward & Confused Mode Offline, I think:S

 

[JohannStrauss]

Thank you, as are you. We are all Elite fans at the end of the day Johann



Awkward & Confused Mode Online

Eh! What? :S
Must be language barrier making an appearance methinks Yes I do love the prospect of Elite IV making an appearance.....um, just not that way

Awkward & Confused Mode Offline, I think:S

Haha!
I am referring to my other thread where I described the fact that many of us are waiting for that game to return for over 20 years now. Like a long lost love. And we all don't know how "she" will look like now after 20 years. We only have the memories how "she" looked 20 years ago. Thus many people might be disappointed because "she" might not match the memories. Yes, I know: this is some lame example...I am sowwy!

 

[SuperG]

LOL missed that, got a morning chuckle

Oh undoubtedly and it will be things like tessellation that will make things like space stations, planets and cities that little bit more 'textured and rich'. There is some pretty cool stuff happening in the graphics engines world. From the tessellation perspective I've yet to see something that doesn't look a little overwrought and 'cartooney'. I'd be interested to see what it can do for something like a building or a space stations surface texture.

Well testallation is this, the next huge step on top of geometry shaders. Not much texture related. But geometric detail.
It can boost geometry a bit or a whole lot. wich means higher real detail and it's done on the GPU wich only have to deal with this blown up geometry load. What goes through PCI-e bus is the base geometry and how you want to generate it. The limit is GPU power. This detail generation can be LoD. So the Lod can be based on GPU power, object distance and screen resolution, fps cap , detail preference tradeoff. And that under runtime.
Dev's could do this, support 2 gen further of GPU gen, by extending the LOD.
New nextgen highend GPU hardware bought after 1 or 2 years and your old game look even beter then it was before. It's possible to go from 1000 per object to 10.000 to the milion poly depending of GPU power. Depending on your hardware it could look so much more detailed. Nice for game with longlivaty and replay value.

It's more in the direction of professional rendering wich aim for full geometry detail then fancy large geometry texturing methods previus game API's focus on making the flatness of to large triangle more detailed crude aproximate a mere detail geometry.

With this feature it much more achivable to make smooth curves wich bio theme starships look much more organic with much more curved detail and organic shader routines and light effects.

So step closer to photo realistic of real complex object large starship can be. For static rendering that is.

The next evolution is to make this static much more foto realism more realistic interactive behaving like destructable. Because the much more real lookin the expectation of also behave like the real thing is much more in demand or it kills emersion.
But that's more complicated. Because you have to simulate material volumic texturing and destructive behavior of material generated on the fly. And of course complex muti composed materials.

The PhysX SDK showed that with tearable clothes physics if set the dampening high you simulate shredable sheet metal. Destructive hull physics.
So destructable hull is possible. Depending on the fine grain it is possible to shoot real holes with a mass driver or space gatling gun. But the computing power need are related to how fine grain you want it. Might be to much for now to look in fine detail. But it's possible in low detail in GFX and large grain of physical material detail. one on one small capital ship battle.

But Fotorealism and fine grain physics doesn't go well together they complicate things in magnitute of how high detailed you want it. This hold back this evolution.

Because the more fine grain demands much more massive parralel computing like GPGPU and the difference between budged mainstream cheap CPU and GPU. VS multi core CPU and many GPU wicht massive ammout of GPGPU Prosesing units.
And Needs a large LOD range, because the budged gamers who still willgame for years with Dual core with a 8800GT. And other who have iNtel nextgen in 2013 with 2 or 3 in SLI GTX780 GPU.

So much more computing power can put to good use for games even beyound what we have now.

And Testallation make me thinkin of procedurely generated content it seams lot related.

 

[The Space Pirate]

It will have to be something special though to make the wait worthwhile.

Agreed - it's been what - fifteen years? After waiting that long, a simple 'modern remake' isn't enough - I want a much deeper game with many more options, things to do and so on. What I don't want is a linear storyline - keep it open world, Frontier! I mean, an option for a storyline that 'ties things together' might be good - but only if it's as an option. Above all - concentrate on the singleplayer aspect! If this comes out as one of those things where you have to pay a monthly fee to keep playing, I won't be getting it.

 

[The Space Pirate]

Haha!
I am referring to my other thread where I described the fact that many of us are waiting for that game to return for over 20 years now. Like a long lost love. And we all don't know how "she" will look like now after 20 years. We only have the memories how "she" looked 20 years ago. Thus many people might be disappointed because "she" might not match the memories. Yes, I know: this is some lame example...I am sowwy!

True, but we also know 'she' would've had a makeover, a facelift and a tummy-tuck and so on - she's gonna look awesome - let's just hope she's still got the personality, eh?