To do what?
FD just Nuked loads of trade routes!
- Thread starter tim74uk
- Start date
Ok clearly my post didn't explain it very well....
It isn't the Demand that's the problem, that was just to illustrate/backup the observation.
I might add that the trade route data does the same.
I'll have another go...
Take 2:
Was
System A ---> System B = Progenitor Cells - profit 1300cr/ton
System B ---> System A = Palladium - profit 1300cr/ton
Now
System A ---> System B = Progenitor Cells - profit 1300cr/ton
System B ---> System A = Palladium - LOSS 50cr/ton
So, the price of Palladium in System A has dropped by over 1300cr per ton in a day, despite still being listed as a High Demand commodity, and an import, and on the Gal Map and everywhere else.
In fact it is now much lower than the Galactic Average.
This has happened in 1 day, and you think it's normal/ok?
I think not...
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Oy! Don't dis the pen & paper...
My desk is covered in it atm!!!
This has made me loose a lot of faith in FD over the last 48 hours.
At release we had the bug that made trading completly useless due to over supply by AI traders.
They fix the issue with a "quick fix" that pretty much makes trading static supply and demand, adjusted only for player trading.
They fix rare trading by giving every player a comodity allocation at every station. It looks like it bugged into regular trading.
People figure out how Lux traders work and FD panicks.
They steath fix the regular comodity trading with shared supplies and remove the well known Lux Traders. Lux Traders become worthless , if they become public knowledge.
As a consequence stations no longer restock at a reasonable rate compared to traffic in the system. Supply is running out way faster than it should, prices fluxuate widely, and suppliers become importers and importers are becoming suppliers again.
In short the trading bugs from release are back, but there are no alternatives to making money, since FD nerfed everything else into oblivion.
At least that is how I see it.
At release we had the bug that made trading completly useless due to over supply by AI traders.
They fix the issue with a "quick fix" that pretty much makes trading static supply and demand, adjusted only for player trading.
They fix rare trading by giving every player a comodity allocation at every station. It looks like it bugged into regular trading.
People figure out how Lux traders work and FD panicks.
They steath fix the regular comodity trading with shared supplies and remove the well known Lux Traders. Lux Traders become worthless , if they become public knowledge.
As a consequence stations no longer restock at a reasonable rate compared to traffic in the system. Supply is running out way faster than it should, prices fluxuate widely, and suppliers become importers and importers are becoming suppliers again.
In short the trading bugs from release are back, but there are no alternatives to making money, since FD nerfed everything else into oblivion.
At least that is how I see it.
Ok clearly my post didn't explain it very well....
It isn't the Demand that's the problem, that was just to illustrate/backup the observation.
I might add that the trade route data does the same.
I'll have another go...
Take 2:
Was
System A ---> System B = Progenitor Cells - profit 1300cr/ton
System B ---> System A = Palladium - profit 1300cr/ton
Now
System A ---> System B = Progenitor Cells - profit 1300cr/ton
System B ---> System A = Palladium - LOSS 50cr/ton
So, the price of Palladium in System A has dropped by over 1300cr per ton in a day, despite still being listed as a High Demand commodity, and an import, and on the Gal Map and everywhere else.
In fact it is now much lower than the Galactic Average.
This has happened in 1 day, and you think it's normal/ok?
I think not...
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Oy! Don't dis the pen & paper...
My desk is covered in it atm!!!
So, people do realize that markets can crash in a matter of hours if flooded, right? That's just basic economics. Granted, it would make sense if the station updated it's demand levels quickly to reflect the market becoming over saturated.
I think that what we're seeing here, is that since FD is trying to make it so that trade in game is supposed to work as intended, the server's aren't updating station data quickly enough to reflect the current market status. Thus you have items listed still as "high demand" however they pay out signifcantly under price, because the station actually has, in fact, a surplus of the item in question in reserve now, and thus aren't buying it at as high a price anymore.
Just a theory though. At least, that's how I make sense of it all.
Ok, that did indeed explain your point better.
Here's my take on it (long paragraph coming).
My fav route last week was Gold <--> Perf Enhc. Was getting about 1000-1200 Cr/ton for each direction. Last night, I noticed the Perfs selling price had dropped by 500 CR. (I don't know demand, again I don't pay attention to that). However, Meat/Coffee/Tea had shot up +500CR in selling price. It occurred to me that all week, the BB Missions had been filled with "We're starving! Pls bring coffee/food/grain for $10,000!" I had ignored these missions, as it was a trip out of my way, and not very profitable in comparison to bringing the station some steroids.
See where I'm going with this?
Now, I agree that the DEMAND metadata may be conflicting with the prices they're offering for palladium. But the prices I've been seeing appear to be trending in such a way that looks like over-supply vs no-supply. IE, if we want food and all you deliver is drugs - ok, screw that - we're not paying a premium for drugs anymore. We want some fracking steaks and pork chops.
Curiously my trade route is completely and utterly unaffected. 1158 Cr per ton one way and 1123 Cr per ton on the return leg, exactly as before, down to the very last Credit.
Might be a glitch. Might also simply be my affinity for trading goods with very high demand / supply in their respective stations (> 100k) in areas where it's "hey cool, another player" rather than "all these griefer make me wanna play Solo mode".
Might be a glitch. Might also simply be my affinity for trading goods with very high demand / supply in their respective stations (> 100k) in areas where it's "hey cool, another player" rather than "all these griefer make me wanna play Solo mode".
Sorry, I did not read much (if any) of the posts here but I just noticed that my yesterday "regular" route (Palla -> slaves ; slaves -> Palla) was... worthless today ?
I see there are 33 pages already, is it a common issue : route drying up in a day?
It takes me around 1,5 hour to find a route, so if I have to do run it immediately afterwards, and repeat the whole process each day... well, that's quite the commitment in gaming hours, and a whole new story in the "trade" business.
Am I missing something?
I see there are 33 pages already, is it a common issue : route drying up in a day?
It takes me around 1,5 hour to find a route, so if I have to do run it immediately afterwards, and repeat the whole process each day... well, that's quite the commitment in gaming hours, and a whole new story in the "trade" business.
Am I missing something?
I've been having a blast since Gamma, and I've never once had to "endure boredom" before I could have fun, and if I can put in more than ten hours a week, I consider myself fortunate. I still don't understand the point of avoiding the fun to be had right now to spend hours of "grinding," just so you can make all those beginner mistakes in a huge expensive ship as opposed to a cheap little sidewinder.
The mind continues to boggle.
As for the changes to supply/demand, I haven't seen a huge impact yet. But this is because I've always vagabond traded, buying commodities on the fly based on where I am and where I'm going, as opposed to keeping reams of notes until I find that one "perfect" route. It's much more fun rolling the dice, and celebrating a high demand vs a lamenting low one at the other end of my trip, than doing the exact same thing over and over and over and over ...
A single player should not be able to do when trading in two systems that have over 1 billion population each, and the trader is the only player trading. Yet, that is exactly what is happening.
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"Infinite supply" doesn't exist anymore, and realistic economics have taken hold in 1.07. At least that's the word right now.
So basically, you said when supply is high, demand is low and this reacts to trading but the prices don't and only fluctuate when under certain conditions.
However, should prices not rise on a commodity that is scare (low supply, high demand) but lower on a commodity that is abundant (low demand, high supply)? I seem to recall being taught such in school (a very long time ago, lol).
I'm not very good with economy and trading stuff, so bear with me as I am trying to understand.
You are correct. High demand/low supply = higher price. Low demand/high supply = lower price.
In school, they will draw a graph of the supply and demand curves. The Y-axis of the graph is the price and the X-axis is the number of units. The demand curve is descending (slope < 0) and the supply curve is ascending (slope > 0). Effectively it will look something like an X with demand going from top-left to bottom-right and supply going from bottom-left to top-right. Where the curves intercept is the current price.
If you take a load of cargo off of a planet, it should shift the supply curve to the left (which will raise the point where the curves intercept - i.e. raise the price). You have lowered the supply as fewer units are left on the planet.
If you sell a load of cargo, it should shift the demand curve to the left (which will lower the point where the curves intercept - i.e. raise the price). You have lowered the demand as many people now have that item. Alternatively you could think of this as shifting the supply to the right (increasing supply as there are now more units on the planet). This may actually be the more technically correct way but the general effect is the same. (it's been awhile for me too).
Yep, and I can see your point, but I'm in a pretty out of the way system, don't often see a CMDR, and the traffic report looks like this:
And all the Cobras and Asps are probably me, so I'm not entirely convinced!
Of course, all the other ships could have been carrying Palladium!!
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After the last trading mess up this feels like history repeating. If this was something intended I would have expected it to have been in the patch notes. It wasn't the last time when they broke it, it wasn't this time.
Last time they didn't admit anything for an age. Still no official answer?
It could be that the trading system reset during the patch and it will take a few days to settle down (as it did last time). It could be that they wanted to fix the luxury trading but broke all trades.
Trading is a massive part of the game for many. The silence when something so huge has just happened is startling and somewhat baffling.
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Yep, and I quite like this idea, but all the missions at my System A are kill this, kill that, kill the other, which is what I've been doing for the last 2 days!
I'm allied here, and friendly in my System B, done lots of missions for them both, so not convinced that's what's happened here.
Do like the idea tho
In my opinion this would be a cheap shot at making money. I like others have spent a considerable amount of money already to support the game . I wont be going down the route of paying more money in an attempt just to bolster companies profits. Altough im a great fan of the game, its certainly not a polished version of what could be an excellent game
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Hello fellow traders: I think some of you need to realize a few things.
Something ''being imported'' does not mean profit trading it. It means that this good has been transported there and sold there. If everyone just piles on the most expensive good in demand there and sell it, it's going to show up as a main import, but the price will very rapidly drop. If people actually keep trading and go to the forum to complain about not profiting, instead of actually changing their trading strategy, then that good will still be the main import even when you actually do a loss trading it.
Agriculture economies can not live on Land Enrichment Systems. High tech economies can't live on Palladium. Refinery economies can't live on Bertrandite. Can you make medicine with Palladium? Can you harvest a fruit tree with engineered archaebacteria? Can you produce Titanium, Copper or Aluminium by refining Bertrandite? Nope, nope and nope! What use is Land Enrichment systems when you don't have harvesters, what use is consumer tech when you don't have food?
How do you profit the most? You find unexploited markets. A ''famous'' trade route is not likely to be a good trade route. This isn't silk route trading, there isn't a practically insatiable demand at our destination. Well rare trading might be, but that's another story...
Something ''being imported'' does not mean profit trading it. It means that this good has been transported there and sold there. If everyone just piles on the most expensive good in demand there and sell it, it's going to show up as a main import, but the price will very rapidly drop. If people actually keep trading and go to the forum to complain about not profiting, instead of actually changing their trading strategy, then that good will still be the main import even when you actually do a loss trading it.
Agriculture economies can not live on Land Enrichment Systems. High tech economies can't live on Palladium. Refinery economies can't live on Bertrandite. Can you make medicine with Palladium? Can you harvest a fruit tree with engineered archaebacteria? Can you produce Titanium, Copper or Aluminium by refining Bertrandite? Nope, nope and nope! What use is Land Enrichment systems when you don't have harvesters, what use is consumer tech when you don't have food?
How do you profit the most? You find unexploited markets. A ''famous'' trade route is not likely to be a good trade route. This isn't silk route trading, there isn't a practically insatiable demand at our destination. Well rare trading might be, but that's another story...
Well, I just tried to do a bit of trading for the first time in a couple of days, on my standard route, and it's not good news at all...
I used to sell ProgCells one way and make about 1300cr profit per ton, and this still works, apart from the LuxTraders, who now ignore me completely, no matter how close I get, so I only trade at the station (having said that, the difference wasn't much anyway, so not bothered)
But the return route is completely knackered...
I used to buy Palladium, and also make around 1300cr per ton profit on the return leg.
But now Palladium, despite being Med supply and High demand LOSES money.
The only other things my second system exports to my first system is other high-value metals.
The following are listed as High Demand in my first system:
Palladium (as stated)
Gold
Indium
Beryllium
All are listed as Med Supply in my second, however EVERY SINGLE ONE now makes a loss on the return route.
How the bleep does that work then?
FDEVS? Any comment?
(^^ they're giggling their brains out)
Well, considering that some players share the same exact trade routes, suddenly a handful of traders can kill a market overnight. Especially if they're in trading ships, hauling hundreds of tonnes at once.
If 10 traders in T6's, with only 100 cargo, grind away at a system that has a supply of say, 20,000 tonnes, of a product, they can kill that market rather quickly. Especially if the route is short enough. Let us say, that for the sake of argument, that those 10 traders, can make a run in 20 minutes. Every 20 minutes, the supply is loosing 1000 tonnes of cargo. The route would dry up completely in a little over 6 hours (if my math is correct). Since the game takes place "in real time," that's an incredibly fast amount of time for a market to dry up. Very realistic too, since we all share our routes on these forums, like morons, and spread trade tips and secrets liek the plague. The moment someone opens their mouth about a route, you can bet several players are going to get in on it.
From here on out, traders will need to keep their mouths shut if they want to make money.
It does not matter if some systems are okay or not. This was a sudden, drastic and non-discussed patch update that has completely changed the face of trading for many (again!).
The ONLY question is this:
Was this intentional, accidental or a glitch in the matrix.
If it's another glitch (like last time) is it being looked at?
If FD have decided to make a secret but drastic change to trading when will the game tools catch up with it?
Silence really should not be an option when the face of something changes to such a degree.
The ONLY question is this:
Was this intentional, accidental or a glitch in the matrix.
If it's another glitch (like last time) is it being looked at?
If FD have decided to make a secret but drastic change to trading when will the game tools catch up with it?
Silence really should not be an option when the face of something changes to such a degree.