Please Don't remake FFE

Luniticisi

Luniticisi
This isn't going to go down well with some, but hey.

I am slightly concerned about "Super Cruse", ED's solution to star-dreamer from FE2 and FFE,

I cannot find the thread that explains this mechanic, but from what David B said in the last Dev Diary #7 .. it seems like fast travel has been implemented.

Now, although I have made it clear that I didn't get on with Elites sequels ... and I didn't like the combat in those latter games ... A BIG problem for me was the fast travel (Star-dreamer) ... unless you had an encounter of some kind (be it being attacked or just mass locked) you could skip from one station to another in seconds and the game became "Spread sheet" as no flying of your ship was ever necessary.
It could all be done by the computer in seconds, 'unless you had an encounter of some kind'.

Now some may like this concept but for me Elite was about flying your ship from A to B and that could take some time, especially in the later versions, if you took the main trade route, you could be flying for over 20mins before you got to the station, and that was cool.

But in the sequels, in essence, you could just click, click and you have traveled to a new destination, without ever flying your ship ... That's not a space game.

I really don't want to be able to travel within systems instantly, these things should take time ... make some tea, smoke something or have a slash ... space travel should take time ...

To FD you had space travel perfect in Elite ... what was it? the Torus Jump Drive. that worked ...not too quick and a hellofa lot faster than normal travel.

implement that, not the 'insta' Travel from FE2 or FFE.

The reason that Elites sequels were not commercially successful were obvious, Firstly the learning curve was too deep and secondly it wasn't fun from the get go.

Now I know there are die hard fans of the 'Realistic space sim' that Frontier produced, but to compete in the new market that has opened up once again, "the Space Sim" seems to be the new black.

Originality doesn't mean absolute realism.

Make a game that astounds on a scale never seen before, make the game that defines the genre and most of all make the game that is incredibly fun to play ....

I believe in 'ELITE' Dangerous .... not 'FRONTIER' Dangerous






Now, will I regret this post ...... 20-1 says ... I do!
 

Slythe

Slythe
I agree for the most part, except I have to point out that the original Elite also had Jump-drive for in-system travel which is similar in concept to what is planned for E-D (in fact I wonder why they aren't using the same name).
 

Nagual

Nagual
Your concerns about 'super cruise' are a bit ill-founded. Before the cruise option was created, you could only jump from POI to POI in the system, the very thing you dislike. What the cruise option does add, is the ability to actually fly through a system. It won't be instantaneous, it will take time, how much time we don't know yet. They say it will take perhaps 12 minutes to reach full speed in cruise (which is a fraction of light speed) slowing down should be faster though.
 

Keeval

Keeval
Luniticisi said:
This isn't going to go down well with some, but hey.

I am slightly concerned about "Super Cruse", ED's solution to star-dreamer from FE2 and FFE, ....

A BIG problem for me was the fast travel (Star-dreamer) ... unless you had an encounter of some kind (be it being attacked or just mass locked) you could skip from one station to another in seconds and the game became "Spread sheet" as no flying of your ship was ever necessary.
It could all be done by the computer in seconds, 'unless you had an encounter of some kind'.

Now some may like this concept but for me Elite was about flying your ship from A to B and that could take some time, especially in the later versions, if you took the main trade route, you could be flying for over 20mins before you got to the station, and that was cool.
Click to expand...

You don't need to worry :)

The three travel modes are :
1. Normal engines for combat, very short range flying, docking etc.
2. Frame Shift Drive (Super-Cruise) (FSD)
3. Hyperdrive.

The only way to hop from one location to another is by using the usual hyperspace jump. If you use the FSD you still fly your ship - but at sub light speeds. FSD mode is effectively a different flight mode that allows you to travel quickly - but not too quickly.

The best way I can explain it is...

FSD = medium range travel - i.e., from a planet to a moon or around jupiters moons etc.

Hyperdrive = long range travel.

Now if you want to you will be able to do in-system micro-hyperspace-jumps for example from a station to a planet on the other side of the system. You will have to option to super-cruise all the way if you want, but it may take a while depending on distances.

I hope that helps.

ETA: The thread with the info is: here
 

izzy

izzy
ED will not be a remake of FFE but a sequel of Elite serie :)
I don't worry about supercruse mode, it will be well done :)
 

Cosmos

C
As far as I am aware its not the case. I agree with you about FFE - and I didn't enjoy the game like I did Elite because of the combat system and related flight system.

Here is summary of the flight system. As far as I am aware, even in super cruise, you'll still have to pilot the ship ;)
 

Luniticisi

Luniticisi
thanks for the reply's, appreciated..

to Slythe " they should use the same name !! :)"

to Nagual " if that is truly the case then I would be happy"

and to Keeval "thanks for the explanation and the link ... been looking everywhere"


Sorry missed the last few comments ... Thanks also to Izzy, jabokai and Cosmos ... the info really helps.
 
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laforge

L
Luniticisi said:
But in the sequels, in essence, you could just click, click and you have traveled to a new destination, without ever flying your ship ... That's not a space game.

I really don't want to be able to travel within systems instantly, these things should take time ... make some tea, smoke something or have a slash ... space travel should take time ...
Click to expand...

You could have turned off the stardreamer and start traveling in real time. No one is forcing you to use it. But since the distances in space are large, I would not recommend it :)


Luniticisi said:
The reason that Elites sequels were not commercially successful were obvious, Firstly the learning curve was too deep and secondly it wasn't fun from the get go.
Click to expand...
Just look at the forums, there are so many people around awaiting the sequels to the elite series. So I would say yes, it was successful in its own way and it did set standards for many other games out there. I found the learning curve also really easy. I understand that immersive spaceflight isnt everyones taste, but it is with so many things in life.
 

Luniticisi

Luniticisi
laforge said:
Just look at the forums, there are so many people around awaiting the sequels to the elite series. So I would say yes, it was successful in its own way and it did set standards for many other games out there. I found the learning curve also really easy. I understand that immersive spaceflight isnt everyones taste, but it is with so many things in life.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, and I know on these forums there a load of Frontier fans as there are also a load of Elite fans .. to me they are completely different games ... But, truth be told Frontier: Elite 2 and Frontier: First Encounters .. were Cult games, not very successful ... in fact the original Elite game outsold BOTH sequels combined.

Why was that? ... Frontier had a better concept and a believable universe, Elite had much less content, a planet and a sun, no real missions or story-line .. but it was just a better game

I'm not saying that the Frontier games, were bad games, They were incredibly impressive, to me though, they were not fun .. the game HAS to be fun from the get go ... flying your Sidewinder should be intuitive .. not a complex lesson in physics .. leave that until the bigger ships (which is what I believe they are doing)

I'm all for realism ... to a point ... I'm all for 'planes in space' for the fighter ships and bricks in mud for the bigger ships ... I just want it to be fun from the get go, and I believe that is what is going to be done.... so maybe my point is pointless ... done that before!
 
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Allen Stroud

Allen Stroud
Luniticisi said:
But, truth be told Frontier: Elite 2 and Frontier: First Encounters .. were Cult games, not very successful ...
Click to expand...

LOL!

Frontier Website said:
"Frontier: Elite II" was the long awaited sequel to Elite. It was written in five and a half years by David Braben, with Konami Inc of Japan as publisher. In 1993, Konami decided to get out of PC publishing, and sold the rights to Gametek. The game was released in October 1993 and was in the top few slots in the UK Gallup chart for the best part of the following year. It was the best selling game in Europe 1993 according to Gallup.
Click to expand...

"Successful" depends on the yardstick. By market sales and review, Elite was incredibly successful and Frontier was also successful. Perhaps when you say it wasn't successful, you mean in your bedroom or in mine? :D Its well documented on these forums and in podcasts that blue sky put me off playing Frontier much.

You've made some good points in your posts and I think others have done a lot to try to reassure you of what's being decided and being worked upon.
 

Luniticisi

Luniticisi
Allen Stroud said:
LOL!



"Successful" depends on the yardstick. By market sales and review, Elite was incredibly successful and Frontier was also successful. Perhaps when you say it wasn't successful, you mean in your bedroom or in mine? :D Its well documented on these forums and in podcasts that blue sky put me off playing Frontier much.

You've made some good points in your posts and I think others have done a lot to try to reassure you of what's being decided and being worked upon.
Click to expand...

I am reassured, but I do have worries about another experience like that of of loading up Elite 2 and being totally disappointed .

also I am pretty sure that the Frontier website wouldn't give out the message that any of their games had failed, even though it is widely recognised that FFE was a total mess upon release ... and, it wasn't blue sky that put me off it was the game play ...

But as normal .. it's each to their own .. The yard-stick I am using is world wide sales .. Elite, Apparently sold a copy for every BBC Micro on earth .. One million copys .. then it went to the Spectrum the C-64 - all the way up to the Atari-ST and the Amiga's and still continuing in the form of Oolite.

First Encounters sold 500.000 copys, or there abouts and FFE sold less.

So in my view The first game was far more successful .. and THAT should be the yard-stick Frontier Developments should be using.
 

laforge

L
Luniticisi said:
to me though, they were not fun ..
Click to expand...
and for me there were fun :)
Luniticisi said:
flying your Sidewinder should be intuitive .. not a complex lesson in physics .. leave that until the bigger ships (which is what I believe they are doing)
Click to expand...
I agree that flying should be intuitive, but it should also be not too dull. What do you think would fit more for an online game? mario karts or a modern f1 racing game? In my oppinion it is better in the the long run - especially in online games where you might have competition - to give people a bit more complexity to play around with.

Technical issues will always be at work in the background. The degree of complexity usually only depends on how it will be presented to you.
 

Allen Stroud

Allen Stroud
Luniticisi said:
So in my view The first game was far more successful .. and THAT should be the yard-stick Frontier Developments should be using.
Click to expand...

Okay, glad to see we've moved away from the inaccurate generalisation. :D

To address your main point, I think we all want to see Elite Dangerous be stratospheric in its success and by that I mean people here and everyone involved in the development. The time and trouble taken by users in the DDF for example, really humbles me. The input on several of the Design proposals has been nothing short of amazing.

Many things made Elite the success it was, not just the game, but the time of release and the market. Much of that can't be replicated and working out why one thing is more successful than another is all part of the process.

Some really ground breaking things are being done with this franchise. Hopefully, people will see them and be amazed, because they should be.

I can assure you, plenty of hours are going into the work. You should see the hours Michael Brookes keeps, We fictioneers (wow I invented a word :D) regularly get detailed replies to stuff over the weekend.

As an official fiction writer I'm commercially tied into the process and have to write a good novel, so hopefully all my late nights staring at the computer screen will be worthwhile.
 
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