A plea for FD to focus next on balancing -maintenance- costs for larger ships

[spacejumbofudge]

You two (and the folks who agree with this assertion that "it takes just as long to recoup cost for a small ship IN a small ship as it does to recoup cost for large ship IN a large ship") are wrong. You're wrong because of the fundamental confusion many players seem to have with factoring in the _time_ element of trading. It's the same fundamental problem as people who think "my 2300 cr/ton trade route is better than your 1800 cr/ton trade route".

Let's do the math with fully A-classed ships, assuming you're a good trader capable of finding trade routes that are worth 16,000 cr/ton/hour (which won't vary significantly regardless of ship size/speed/cargo capacity--it's a PER TON unit of measure):


Viper: 22 cargo space x 16,000 cr/ton/hour = 352,000 cr/hour = 23 minutes to earn the insurance rebuy
Cobra: 60 cargo space x 16,000 cr/ton/hour = 960,000 cr/hour = 22 minutes to rebuy the Cobra (and only 9 minutes to rebuy the Viper)

Python: 272 cargo space x 16,000 cr/ton/hour = 4,352,000 cr/hour = 102 minutes to rebuy the Python

That's not good scaling for an ongoing maintenance cost.

Next consider that it's dirt easy and fast to get into a Cobra, and only a handful of hours from there to move into a T6. Most people can _easily_ earn at T6/Asp rates with very little time invested. The T6/Asp can fund their Viper/Cobra rebuys at the following rate

T6: 100 cargo space x 16,000 cr/ton/hour = 1,600,000 cr/hour = 5 minutes to rebuy a Viper, and 13 minutes to rebuy a Cobra.

So _most_ players are going to be able to fully rebuy their Viper/Cobra in 5 to 13 minutes, while Python owners require 102 minutes per rebuy. DOES. NOT. SCALE.

Rep for clear and evidence based argument.

I'm only at Asp level, where costs are still reasonable. I think I'd be happy with a slightly longer time to rebuy for bigger ships, but it sounds too much at the moment

 

[Belsameth]

@Belsameth has the right of it (in response to @starry's point). Regardless of how you earn your money, it takes time to earn that money. Currently trading earns the most money in the least time, but the scaling percentages are _exactly_ the same if you use some other money-making path besides trading. If all three ships in my example earned their money by doing only BB missions or only BH or only interdicting other players or whatever, the _relative_ difference in "time to recoup the buyback cost" would be exactly the same.

And I agree totally with the _other_ proposed solution to address scaling, posed by others in the thread:

* You can scale by adjusting the replacement costs to produce a flatter maintenance curve, OR
* You can scale by adjusting the earning potential of larger ships, which also produces a flatter maintenance curve.

Either way, the problem is the current steepness of the maintenance curve. It should be a steep progression curve to move up into bigger, more "powerful" ships, but the curve to maintain ships should be similar for everyone regardless of ship size. Yes, there should be a _little_slope, but ultimately it's disincentive to any real diversity or player longevity if the maintenance curve for larger ships is exactly as steep as the progression curve.

Excelent post and that ties neatly into the other income disparity. Currently the only way to realistically run a big ship is by trade. Nothing else will pay for your scrapes realistically and that boils down to no content scaling.
Sure, I die less in my Python than in my Viper but with all the other costs I still make more fightingg in my Viper, easily. Same goes for exporing and using a Cobra.
It basically boils down to the big ships having only really one use, and thats trade (and preference. Flying a Python is fun, granted).

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Owning a big expensive ship doesn't entitle you to flying the big expensive ship for cheap. If you don't want to have high running costs you can either downgrade modules (going from A to D modules will cut your rebuy by more than half) or downgrading your combat ship (going from an A grade python to an A grade asp will lower your rebuy by 7 million credits).

Just because you could afford to buy a python once doesn't give you the right to throw it into harms way again and again without consequence.

Nobody is asking for that. Don't dream up arguements that aren't actually there.

I know its not popular on these forums but there's such a thing as a middle ground. Insane as it sounds, not everything is either black or white.

 

[IAM GROOT]

I'm sorry I can't help it but reading some of these posts it's obvious they're either kids or adults who don't have an appreciation of money.
An Anaconda is much much larger than a Viper or Cobra, it can carry way more cargo, more firepower, engines are larger, everything is bigger on it. You can earn 100 times more in the same amount of time, of course the maintenance is equally considerably more, so is the insurance.
You don't go into battle with your heavily powered and expensive ship if you don't have the means to repair it, costs are right IMO.
I had the money to buy an Asp and kit it out with 1 million left over then realized how quick the fuel, insurance and repair costs were mounting up so I downsized into the Cobra which I comfortably afford in my playing style, I'm totally happy, costs are manageable with what I generally earn in my playing time, I manage my finances accordingly, sorry guys to be rude but I just don't get some of you at all.

 

[dreamer1986]

I agree with the OP, a balance is needed.

 

[darshu]

You can earn 100 times more in the same amount of time.

You must be a fact checker at fox news. A python will make around 4-5mil a hour a cobra can make around 1 mil I would guess a viper can make about 500k?

 

[lysan]

I dont get your problem.

Python insurance too expensive? Dont fly the Python! Viper insurance cheap? Great, fly the Viper!

Oh I hate doing this but but but THIS^

 

[IAM GROOT]

You must be a fact checker at fox news. A python will make around 4-5mil a hour a cobra can make around 1 mil I would guess a viper can make about 500k?

Pmsl at Fox News ok I knew I'd get pulled up for my exaggeration, I don't know the correct amount but I know the Anaconda was considerably more than the Cobra, that's the point I was making. So I guess like Fox I exaggerated

 

[darshu]

Pmsl at Fox News ok I knew I'd get pulled up for my exaggeration, I don't know the correct amount but I know the Anaconda was considerably more than the Cobra, that's the point I was making. So I guess like Fox I exaggerated

So a A grade pythons insurance is about 10mil that's about 2 hours of trading opposed to a vipers I would guess around 20 minutes? That's 6x the TIME punishment for flying a large ship. The python is a good ship but is it worth spending 6x the time trading every time you die? That will come down to the player and the amount of free time they have but it will certainly hurt the ship diversity in pvp. It's not just the python it's really a issue that starts with a geared asp and increases exponentially