arguement: Python vs Viper equal skill python SHOULD win

[Hekantonkheries]

It should take a VERY skilled viper pilot to fight up 3-4 weight classes and win, right now though any ship bigger than a viper is at a disadvantage in maneuverability, and if your not more maneuverable you cant bring weapons to bare.

in other words, extend range, and icnrease accuracy of turrets by ALOT, and reduce their damage, so that turrets cant be used effectively against a bigger ship, but are exceedingly good point-defence against small ships, because as it is right now turrets are useless, which means between 2 equally skilled pilots (or in some cases even if the python/conda pilot is slightly better) the viper or cobra will win be default because the bigger ship will never hit them

 

[tagos]

It should take a VERY skilled viper pilot to fight up 3-4 weight classes and win, right now though any ship bigger than a viper is at a disadvantage in maneuverability, and if your not more maneuverable you cant bring weapons to bare.

in other words, extend range, and icnrease accuracy of turrets by ALOT, and reduce their damage, so that turrets cant be used effectively against a bigger ship, but are exceedingly good point-defence against small ships, because as it is right now turrets are useless, which means between 2 equally skilled pilots (or in some cases even if the python/conda pilot is slightly better) the viper or cobra will win be default because the bigger ship will never hit them

What evidence do you have that this isn't already the case? Besides it's not the most 'skilled pilot', it's the 'best pilot' and that includes the intelligence of the pilot as reflected in his choice of weapons and modules. If an equally well-equipped Python, even after the nerfs, gets killed by a Viper then that's down to the pilot.

 

[Jediben]

Spot the guy who lost his Python to a Viper...

 

[dreamer1986]

It should take a VERY skilled viper pilot to fight up 3-4 weight classes and win, right now though any ship bigger than a viper is at a disadvantage in maneuverability, and if your not more maneuverable you cant bring weapons to bare.

in other words, extend range, and icnrease accuracy of turrets by ALOT, and reduce their damage, so that turrets cant be used effectively against a bigger ship, but are exceedingly good point-defence against small ships, because as it is right now turrets are useless, which means between 2 equally skilled pilots (or in some cases even if the python/conda pilot is slightly better) the viper or cobra will win be default because the bigger ship will never hit them

I agree. The Viper should be nerfed even further and the Python buffed to reflect the purchase and maintenance costs difference between the two ships. And no, I don't agree that since Viper is a dedicated fighter it should outclass a multipurpose ship, because multipurpose means being able to fight as well.

 

[tagos]

I think whatever ship I'm flying at the time should be buffed and an auto-nerf applied to any ship in my instance, because I'm The Best Of The Best and if I don't win every time it Isn't Fair.

 

[M4rt1n]

I agree. The Viper should be nerfed even further and the Python buffed to reflect the purchase and maintenance costs difference between the two ships. And no, I don't agree that since Viper is a dedicated fighter it should outclass a multipurpose ship, because multipurpose means being able to fight as well.

Nerf this, buff that. Not again, please.

 

[dreamer1986]

Nerf this, buff that. Not again, please.

Yes, again, until a proper balance is reached. If you want a good pvp and ship vs ship/ships battles, the different options must be made viable. Otherwise everybody would fly only vipers, and that's it with diversity.

 

[tagos]

Nerf this, buff that. Not again, please.

Welcome to every MMO with a PvP element ever.

 

[teaurn]

ZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZz

Wake me when something interesting happens....

 

[dreamer1986]

Welcome to every MMO with a PvP element ever.

Let's take GW1 for example... the nerfing and buffing went on for almost 10 years of all professions, to reach the perfect balance so that everybody could enjoy pvp. It was a strategy that made sense and appreciated by the community.

@teaurn such a constructive comment. Please continue your exemplary and useful arguments..

 

[tagos]

Yes, again, until a proper balance is reached. If you want a good pvp and ship vs ship/ships battles, the different options must be made viable. Otherwise everybody would fly only vipers, and that's it with diversity.

I dont give a frack about PvP. I play PvP games and when I'm beaten I take it as a sign to go practice and get better, not head for the forums and bang on until the devs change things to make it easier. If people get killed by a viper while in a python it's a sign they need to be better pilots.

 

[dreamer1986]

I dont give a frack about PvP. I play PvP games and when I'm beaten I take it as a sign to go practice and get better, not head for the forums and bang on until the devs change things to make it easier. If people get killed by a viper while in a python it's a sign they need to be better pilots.

No. While it could be a piloting problem sometimes, in the vast majority of cases its a balancing problem. Don't assume that everybody is a bad pilot.

 

[Eagle Eye]

Let's take GW1 for example... the nerfing and buffing went on for almost 10 years of all professions, to reach the perfect balance so that everybody could enjoy pvp. It was a strategy that made sense and appreciated by the community.

@teaurn such a constructive comment. Please continue your exemplary and useful arguments..

Ok, come back in 10 years to enjoy the perfect balance...

 

[Serrin]

I should win. Always!

 

[tagos]

Let's take GW1 for example... the nerfing and buffing went on for almost 10 years of all professions, to reach the perfect balance so that everybody could enjoy pvp. It was a strategy that made sense and appreciated by the community.

@teaurn such a constructive comment. Please continue your exemplary and useful arguments..

ED is not a PvP game and the sooner FD grow a pair and stop letting the miniscule tail of low-skilled PvP players wag the galactic dog the better. Poor Python pilots - the flight training is thataway.

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I should win. Always!

No! I should win. I'm Maverick, me.

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No. While it could be a piloting problem sometimes, in the vast majority of cases its a balancing problem. Don't assume that everybody is a bad pilot.

If you're in a Python and lose to a Viper you were not the best pilot. Especially with the nerf vipers have taken regarding shield cells and chaff. The python has only been out 10 minutes so until people learn to actually fly it then the whole conversation is moot.

 

[OamodSias]

ship bigger than a viper is at a disadvantage in maneuverability,

Yeah, that's pretty much how reality works.

The difference here is the Python is not a military vessal. It's a multi-purpose; meaning decent at everything, but not excelling at anything. It's got a decent amount of firepower, but is slow. The Viper is a solid ship build for combat. It has the turn speed of a Sidey and weapons comparable to the Cobby. It's entire function in life is to cause damage and do it quickly. The Python may have more guns, but what good are those guns if you can't even hit your target? The Viper is the elite combat vessel and it can beat any ship, in any class (with skill) - exclude capitals ofc (but I dunno .. if the pilot is skilled enough? heh).

Big doesn't necessarily mean better.
Despite the weight difference and being out-gunned, a skilled (or lucky) F22 fighter pilot can still sink a Destroyer after all. And the Destroyer is a dedicated military vessel.

Instead of asking for a nerf to make it easier for you, why not just get better at piloting your tugboat?

Sorry, Viper is working as intended.

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That said, a thread on this type of discussion already exists to which you could have posted. A quick search would have likely yielded results. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=104070

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

If people have this impression that FD listens to particular group of players and therefore introduces nerfs knows nothing about game design. That way chaos soon would kick in. No one's does that.

Mike Evans and Sandro have done lot of analysis and they know their "endgame" regarding where ships should "land" in the end. Their idea is also that no ship guarantees you being a god in a hull. Of course Python most likely will win most of fights with Viper, but that's not guarantee.

As why ships still get nerfed - because not all elements of the game FD wants to see in are in. Expect nerfs to happen till mid summer. Cobra and Sidewinder haven't got nerfs for very long time now, I expect no big changes in Python from now on too.

 

[Rubellen]

I agree. The Viper should be nerfed even further and the Python buffed to reflect the purchase and maintenance costs difference between the two ships. And no, I don't agree that since Viper is a dedicated fighter it should outclass a multipurpose ship, because multipurpose means being able to fight as well.

+1 rep. I totally agree. With such a puny power plant the viper should only be able to scratch a Python... Btw I fly Viper and Python

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I agree. The Viper should be nerfed even further and the Python buffed to reflect the purchase and maintenance costs difference between the two ships. And no, I don't agree that since Viper is a dedicated fighter it should outclass a multipurpose ship, because multipurpose means being able to fight as well.

Nonsense. As people already have written above multipurpose really means being able to fight, but not fight well. Dedicated trade ship for example have no fighting capabilities to talk about. General usage ship have some of this capabilities, but that's all.

Also costs doesn't go into consideration of how ships compare to each other (when they will finish with overall nerfs, they will weight purchase costs tough). You want trade AND fight - you buy Python. You want to fight - you buy Viper. No brainier.

 

[xaisis]

Echo? ......